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originally posted by: Nyiah
You worked in a bar. By default, I'd expect people of either gender to turn into grabby pigs after the first drink, alcohol tends to make common sense evaporate. Your job is sort of a moot point because the behavior is a no-brainer there.
At what point though, do we examine the generational end of this supposed prevalence? I'm in my 30's, and for a number of years worked in a hotel. That is a setting where people would think these "lascivious" men would try to get away with anything, but I never came across it in all the years I worked in it.
Outside of work, I never came across these oafish stereotypes, either. Not with friends, not with random strangers in public. Nearly all of my friends corroborate this. The ones who insist men are grabby, leering pigs have a similar group of places they frequent -- bars & clubs. Well no s#, Sherlock, let's talk about this loosening of inhibitions thing alcohol does once again.
It seems to me, in my experience, that unsavory sober behavior is largely generational. Older generations had a bigger social problem with grabby guys, and at the very least, we can look at the ages of the famous accused recently and go "Hmm, there is a common age group thread here..."
originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: tetra50
I feel at the end of the day it's a man problem. Just as it takes other men to address feminism to get others on board it takes other men to call out unacceptable behavior.
*snip*
But that raises another issue, why should it take a male figure to bring awareness. Goes to show how women are perceived even in today's world, prime example, someone in this thread even dismissed you as a female solely for your past employment, and others agreed with it! No wonder there's a new wave of feminism lately.
originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: tetra50
I feel at the end of the day it's a man problem. Just as it takes other men to address feminism to get others on board it takes other men to call out unacceptable behavior.
A personal story of mine that involved a literal sexual predator in my friend group throughout my 20's was consistently called out by women all the time, one by one they all came forward and no - one listened, well people did listen but nothing came of it.
It was simply just swept aside and some people even out right ignored.
But, once a male friend thought enough is enough came out and basically publicly shamed this guy on social media all hell broke loose.
But that raises another issue, why should it take a male figure to bring awareness. Goes to show how women are perceived even in today's world, prime example, someone in this thread even dismissed you as a female solely for your past employment, and others agreed with it! No wonder there's a new wave of feminism lately.
originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: tetra50
To me, though, this is feeding into a generalized perversion in this world where a hegelian dialectic and the more sociopathic you are, the more successful you can become in a capatalistic driven "empire."
Horkheimer and Adorno called it positivism, I think you're on to something.
Enlightenment, understood in the widest sense as the advance of thought, has always aimed at liberating human beings from fear and installing them as masters. Yet the wholly enlightened earth is radiant with triumphant calamity.
D ialectics of Enlightenment (PDF)
originally posted by: Nyiah
You worked in a bar. By default, I'd expect people of either gender to turn into grabby pigs after the first drink, alcohol tends to make common sense evaporate. Your job is sort of a moot point because the behavior is a no-brainer there.
At what point though, do we examine the generational end of this supposed prevalence? I'm in my 30's, and for a number of years worked in a hotel. That is a setting where people would think these "lascivious" men would try to get away with anything, but I never came across it in all the years I worked in it.
Outside of work, I never came across these oafish stereotypes, either. Not with friends, not with random strangers in public. Nearly all of my friends corroborate this. The ones who insist men are grabby, leering pigs have a similar group of places they frequent -- bars & clubs. Well no s#, Sherlock, let's talk about this loosening of inhibitions thing alcohol does once again.
It seems to me, in my experience, that unsavory sober behavior is largely generational. Older generations had a bigger social problem with grabby guys, and at the very least, we can look at the ages of the famous accused recently and go "Hmm, there is a common age group thread here..."
originally posted by: Indrasweb
Ok,
I am 35
I am male
I am average looking
I have generally worked in female dominated work environments (aside from when I was in the army when I was younger)
I have had:
One women straddle me, forcibly grab me and stick her tongue down my throat whilst sitting on a sofa in a bar talking to my friend .
I have had my (female) assistant manager at one job send me unsolicited and obscene text messages.
I have had my female team leader grope me and try to stick her tongue down my throat on a works night out (again unwelcome and unsolicited)
I have had several female colleagues (generally older, middle aged women) make sexual and obscene remarks about various parts of my anatomy, often in front of others and when I was in vulnerable positions like bending down or if I was on the floor getting something from under the desk for example.
When i was in the army I had my troop commander, a female lieutenant, order me to show her my junk and I complied (there's context to that story btw, it wasn't just totally out of the blue). She was in a position of almost complete authority over me and i was 18 and a half (she was quite a bit older of course).
Oh and as an aside from the "I'm white and never encountered racism" #e earlier: I lived for quite some time in a predominantly Pakistani migrant area and received numerous threats, abuse and attempted intimidation, all specifically because I'm white.
So...
Should all those women lose their jobs, lose their ability to pay their mortgages, lose their pensions, be disgraced and abused by the general public?
Should i be curled up in the corner of the shower like Ace Ventura and crying myself to sleep at night because I'm such a victim?
You know what i did in ALL those situations? Laughed it off.. simply brushed it off and forgot about it..
I haven't thought of any of those incidents since, aside from in recent weeks when all this #metoo craziness started kicking off and guys started having their careers, families, pensions and years of hard work blown out of the water over accusations of touching people's knees a decade and a half ago...
The reason I mentioned that I'm average looking is because I'm really nothing special to look at and so there's no reason to think that somehow my experience would be especially unique .. I have no particular defining characteristic that would mean that my experience would be entirely different from many other guys. So where's all the women losing their jobs over this?
If someone grabs, gropes, forces a kiss or whatever, you say "stop, I'm not interested". If they don't then that's a BIG problem.. if they do.. then for #s sake, just get over it and get on with your life... stop being a victim..