RE: North Korea. Why doesn't the Trump admin offer Kim a carrot while waving the stick?

a reply to: dianajune


And if things were to further escalate..?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

We should wage peace not war.

a reply to: dianajune

I agree we should take the EMP threat more seriously, but that problem is hardly exclusive to the Trump administration. I hope his military advisers bring him up to speed on it. We can't risk it.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

We should wage peace not war.

Ok Neville.

North Korea has been given handouts and rewards time and time again and they have consistently refused to hold up their end of the deal.
Trump made it very simple - stop building nuclear weapons and threatening to use them, or you get nothing. North Korea is very well able to stop what they're doing and rejoin the world community, but they choose not to.

After 53 years of THAT game, it's ALREADY over,since the time 1st started that he wanted nukes.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Hello,

I'm at a bit of a loss with regards to the North Korea situation with respect to the efforts being made to resolve the problem.

It seems to me that the Trump administration are not offering the North Korean regime any positive incentives or a pathway which would allow the North Korean dictator a way to save face and score a win for himself, his country and people, and yes, I'm well aware of what a duchebag he is.

Why isn't the Trump administration not pointing out what a deal would mean for the Kim regime and his people?

No doubt the sanctions are working to squeeze and pressure, but how is that alone supposed to bring him to the negotiating table?

It doesn't make any sense, imho, to refrain from making that kind of appeal (carrot) to the dictator, his government and the North Korean people, which would surely serve to further increase pressure on him to come to the table and negotiate an agreement.

Without a win/win and nothing but negative consequences, there's no opening.

I don't get it. Can someone enlighten me as to the approach which lacks the big carrot to go with the big stick?

Thanks.

Ankh

Trump did offer the carrot...He offered to let the nutcase live if he stopped his nuclear program...

originally posted by: trollz
North Korea has been given handouts and rewards time and time again and they have consistently refused to hold up their end of the deal.
Trump made it very simple - stop building nuclear weapons and threatening to use them, or you get nothing. North Korea is very well able to stop what they're doing and rejoin the world community, but they choose not to.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that at some point, Trump will have to change his strategy. I thought that both he and Pence claimed "the era of strategic patience is over."

At what point do they believe it's over? Next year? Next month?

A person can only draw red lines so many times before it's time to take action.



Bugs Bunny = Trump
Wile E. Coyote = Kim

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: dianajune


And if things were to further escalate..?

They already are. Imho it's time to launch a pre-emptive strike, at least against Kim's EMP satellites.

Those need to be blown out of the sky before he uses them.

That would be a good start.

Trump is insane to keep trying the same old tactics that just don't work and never will.

originally posted by: dianajune

originally posted by: trollz
North Korea has been given handouts and rewards time and time again and they have consistently refused to hold up their end of the deal.
Trump made it very simple - stop building nuclear weapons and threatening to use them, or you get nothing. North Korea is very well able to stop what they're doing and rejoin the world community, but they choose not to.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that at some point, Trump will have to change his strategy. I thought that both he and Pence claimed "the era of strategic patience is over."

At what point do they believe it's over? Next year? Next month?

A person can only draw red lines so many times before it's time to take action.

Bugs Bunny = Trump
Wile E. Coyote = Kim

I think they're just trying to cover all the bases. You know how it would be portrayed in the media if we attacked North Korea after only a few months of Trump in office. He has to give China a chance, even if he knows that won't work, just to save face and say "hey we gave diplomacy a shot".

Im just waiting for a giant alien craft to knock this pathetic planet out of orbit or something.
#sickofitall
👽💨

Well at least no one here is advocating for WAR..

Many don't realize that Kim has the 3rd largest standing army in the world along with 1000's of missiles.

If a war broke out, the loss of life would be just horrific.

a reply to: face23785

So you're saying Iraqs oil isn't under western control?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: face23785

So you're saying Iraqs oil isn't under western control?

What's your idea of control? Have they been giving Bush or someone associated with him exclusive access to their oil? What was the incentive to invade? Just so we can import Iraqi oil? We were already importing plenty of oil, getting it from one more place doesn't give anyone an advantage.

Not to mention, if we wanted an excuse to invade someone for oil, most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi and they have more oil than Iraq. If that was an actual plan, we would've invaded Saudi Arabia. It just doesn't stand up to the slightest logical thought. I know you've believed this narrative for well over a decade now, so it's not like I expect to change your mind, just pointing out how silly it is. You have freedom of religion just like anyone else though. Worship the "oil wars" myth all you want.

originally posted by: dianajune

originally posted by: trollz
North Korea has been given handouts and rewards time and time again and they have consistently refused to hold up their end of the deal.
Trump made it very simple - stop building nuclear weapons and threatening to use them, or you get nothing. North Korea is very well able to stop what they're doing and rejoin the world community, but they choose not to.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that at some point, Trump will have to change his strategy. I thought that both he and Pence claimed "the era of strategic patience is over."

At what point do they believe it's over? Next year? Next month?

A person can only draw red lines so many times before it's time to take action.

Bugs Bunny = Trump
Wile E. Coyote = Kim

You do understand there is a good chance many thousands if not millions die if the slightest thing goes wrong when we attack correct?

That is not something you risk unless every possible alternative has been exhausted.

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: dianajune

originally posted by: trollz
North Korea has been given handouts and rewards time and time again and they have consistently refused to hold up their end of the deal.
Trump made it very simple - stop building nuclear weapons and threatening to use them, or you get nothing. North Korea is very well able to stop what they're doing and rejoin the world community, but they choose not to.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that at some point, Trump will have to change his strategy. I thought that both he and Pence claimed "the era of strategic patience is over."

At what point do they believe it's over? Next year? Next month?

A person can only draw red lines so many times before it's time to take action.

Bugs Bunny = Trump
Wile E. Coyote = Kim

You do understand there is a good chance many thousands if not millions die if the slightest thing goes wrong when we attack correct?

That is not something you risk unless every possible alternative has been exhausted.

Bingo.

And implicit in all the pressure from every angle, including economic starvation, the carrot does exist.

Therefore, if I were Kim I would be rushing to the table.

However, he also has to somehow save face with his people, by claiming that he went toe to toe with the West and got them a sweet deal.

The mere hint of the carrot has to be given voice to, along with the hand, which is really a lions paw capable of saving him before it's too late. I noted Tillerson's response to a reporter's question about forces within who may oppose Jong Un. He did't say anything explicitely and even mentioned that he had to be careful how he answered the question, then pointed out the executions everyone is aware of and then leaving up to the reporter and everyone else to draw their own conclusions. It's a factor.

If Kim doesn't act and act fast, he's going to get knocked off.

North Korea, under the new leadership, could then join the rest of the civilized world.

China is up his yin yang let's not forget. Maybe in their calculus, which is predominantly an economic decision nothing more, the whole world and the global economy, including their own, outweigh the life of one man.

Even now I think he may be outmatched and outfoxed.

He is probably in the process of BEGGING China for a place at the table, if only for the sake of his own personal security.

Someone owns him, guaranteed, and if they were to disown him, then he'd be screwed, but if they failed to properly contain him and his plans and whatnot, then he could pose an even greater danger and risk, one that's only going to escalate further as he gains more and more missile-nuke capability.

Then, were his life treatened, he might pull a Jim Jones on a much larger scale because everyone or most everyone has already drank the coolaid.

Regime change would have to be very well orchestrated, and it would have to take place very very decisively.

Don't the Chinese specialize in Ninja and what are they called (I forget) Samurai! that's it. The most cunning and the most decisive and brutal warriors and infiltrators and assassins the world has ever known..?!

They have some of their own in there somewhere. Things for him could turn on a dime and he could find himself suddenly placed under arrest, then executed. That was implicit in Tillerson's response.

So now that he's in the pit, he would need the hand and the carrot extended on a backchannel through China, that or die.

I think that Trump's kowtowing to China and Russia is a great thing, because it carries within it the possibility for a lasting peace, as the price for a lasting mutual prosperity.

Kim is just one man and everyone knows that he's not a heaven sent supreme leader.

But shouldn't they be careful and cautious about letting him go down in flames..?

That's dangerous.

He has to see his salvation and the light at the end of the tunnel, that's all I'm saying in the OP.


Best regards,

Ankh

Ninja and Samurai from China, with a very sophisticated plan for post-Kim governance and order among the military.

That's my recommendation.

Kim already went way too far and is preparing to cross the line while gaining access to ICBM's with Nukes.

He's unreliable for China.

His time's up.

I think it's too late, for him.

If they do not have such a plan to take out and replace at the same time, which would preclude the possibility for strike orders by Kim to make it down the chain of command - then well, I just don't think that the entire military-intelligence apparatus of both the US and China are so dumb as to not have a proper plan to take out and replace simultaneously.
China has all the needed intelligence and leverage there.
Either bring him to a deal, or take him out. It's becoming intolerable.
Any new world economic order has to be founded on a lasting mutual peace without threat of madness.
Then perhaps a denuclearization process could begin among the other nuclear capable countries.
We cannot see the world get plunged into an exchange of nuclear weapons.
It must be avoided at all cost, and we need the space and domain of authentic security, in order to realize a global economic and technological renaissance the likes of which the world hasn't yet seen as we plunge headlong and safely, into the 21st century and beyond.

The time has come. Trump is right in that regard.

Come on China. Lay the groundwork for a new domain of international security while shooting for the moon and beyond.

We've got to clear all this BS out of the way for the sake of global peace and lasting mutual prosperity and well being.

Best regards,

Ankh

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: face23785

So you're saying Iraqs oil isn't under western control?

What's your idea of control?

Insuring that the oil is sold for US fiat currency. As long as other countries need US dollars to buy oil, there will be a demand for US dollars. The fastest way to get your country invaded is by announcing that you will only accept gold for your natural resources.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Ninja and Samurai from China, .....
Ankh

Ummm, don't think China will like either of those since they are Japanese. I do agree that China needs to step up to the plate.

a reply to: pavil


Sorry I stand corrected. China could hire and send them, Ninja and Samarai warriors from Japan..?

I'll bet dollars to donuts that China already have Kim contained.

What's best for the world, including the North Korean people?

China doesn't want to see a unified Korea in terms of the balance of power relative to the US, but that would be easy enough to resolve satisfactorily.

The NK dictator really has to go, and why should he deserve a better fate than all those he executed.

His army could very quickly become the people's army...

I don't know, I'm just an armchair quaterback.

I don't think he should be allowed to remain in power.