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Where Civil Rights Went Wrong....

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posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 10:57 PM
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“His zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine. Mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun. Mine was bounded by time. His stretched away to the silent shores of eternity. I could speak for the slave. John Brown could fight for the slave. I could live for the slave. John Brown could die for the slave.
* Frederick Douglass, as quoted in A Lecture On John Brown.”

John Brown being a white, extremist abolitionists who led a failed raid to free all the slaves and build a free black state in the Appalachian mountains and Frederick Douglass was hands down the most influential black abolitionist of the 1800’s.. maybe the most influential african American In Civil rights history..

(imho it’s either him or Tubman and they did it during slavery, when it was considered a scientific fact that the races were unequal and those of European decent deserved to rule..

What does MLK or Malcolm X really have on that ???)

In that passage, that is arguably the most prominent African American figure in the realm of equality in American history, freely admitting that,
“See that white guy over there.. He wanted it just ridiculously more than I did.. “

Douglass was born a slave. He then escaped to the north to become one of the most eloquent speakers of his day. He was so influential he became a somewhat advisor to President Abraham Lincoln Himself..

So hypothetically, he is as good a case as your gonna make for a , best/worse case scenario person who is gonna hate slavery... Yet in his own words..

“His zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine.”

“INFINITY SUPERIOR”......

And don’t get this messed up. Douglass personally new John Brown.. this isn’t him propagandizing some guy he didn’t know, based on the celebrity status Brown received in the wake of Harper’s Ferry....

Brown begged Douglass to accompany him on his raid at harpers ferry, but Douglass refused due to the odds against its success. He didn’t think it was a well thought out enough plan... and it wasn’t .. lol

So if that is the case, then why can’t a white man ever understand the plight of the African American people???

Why would Malcom X when asked if he would ever allow a white man to join his organization, later reply ,

“If He we’re still alive, we MIGHT let John Brown in.”

MIGHT?? MIGHT?!?!

The guy who FREDERICK DOUGLASS says ,

“His zeal in the pursuit of freedom was infinitely superior to mine” ?!?!

Is Malcolm X retarded?!?!

If your claiming to run “the most extreme black power group in America” and John Brown shows up. You hand him the F’n keys and ask him where he wants you to stand.....

The only reason you wouldn’t instantly hand over leadership would be because he is just too extreme and you decide you have to keep him on a leash.. .. but regardless he just became your figure head... and Malcolm X says “MIGHT”?!?!

I’m not only pointing this toward any specific race... you can find people of ANY racial make up on ANY side of ANY argument..as I’m sure there would have been a few black house slaves and overseers who had relatively great lives and were all about slavery.. this is a humanity issue that I think can be applied to just about every issue..maybe in history.

For some reason we have decided that only someone from whatever social group, can truly understand and speak for that group..

Well is that always true, or always the most effective course of action??

With just about everything , distance breeds impartiality and a perception of credibility in that impartiality..

If someone knowledgeable , but unaffected by an event/issue gives you their opinion on it. You will more readily believe it over someone who is emotionally/financially invested in a certain outcome..

So some arguments are just better coming from “the side of the chessboard”..

Maybe all are.. at least all where an outside party has the ability to be sufficiently knowledgeable of whatever event.

So then why is it scoffed on for a white guy to run the NAACP??? Why did that woman who was running an NAACP while pretending to be black, get roasted so badly???

Is there likely ANYONE who wanted it more than she did???

I doubt it..

And I think that applies to everything..

Why couldn’t a black guy run CMT??

Why couldn’t a man run whatever coalition of feminists??

Why couldn’t a black woman run the KKK” , I know that’s kinda fundamentally the opposite of what they are after.. but who knows?? that might be the most effective figure head they could ever find... Some black woman who is an extremely eloquent speaker , but has a deep hatred for her “own people”. Who is just brilliant at thinking up propaganda to demonize black people and push the KKK’s agenda.

And out of 350 million Americans, it is a safe bet she is out there somewhere lol...

The narrative is wrong, and I think maybe that is because it was cemented in a time when ”separate but equal was the goal for most on both sides.“

There never should have been a SEPARATE and because of that there should have never been a black panthers.. or a black entertainment network. Just like there never should of been a kkk or whatever white supremacists group.

It is just more efficient to use all the tools you have available to you, rather than limit yourself only those assets that fit some obscure and irrelevant mold.

Because the fight has never been between black and white.

It has been between slavers and abolitionist , segregationists and integrationists, racists and those who wanted equality, Freedom and oppression.. and make no mistake you can find hero’s and villains of freedom and equality in every ethnic group we have arbitrarily shoehorned together..

Historically, there are ONLY 2 ways that a oppressed people throw off the shackles of oppression.

1. murder everyone of the oppressing class..as happened in Haiti. As it is the only modern state to be formed by an enslaved people rebelling. Maybe the only one in history..

2. Build a coalition of people from both the oppressed people and the establishment and change the system..which happens all the time.

If the oppressors are united against the oppressed, the only way to win is in battle.... and good luck against a united front of oppressors...

There is a reason it only worked once and that is because in Haiti they let the population reach a 10/1, slaves/slaveholder ratio.

I think Civil Rights leaders of the past made a grave error, that has been swiftly adopted by the opponents of civil rights and turned against them..

I think the white civil rights leaders made a concerted effort to highlight black leaders and downplay the white ones to aid in the empowerment of the disenfranchised black population.

However, I think this was short sighted and allowed for their opponents to craft the narrative as if the battle for civil rights was “black people against whites”, Rather than good vs evil.

I think any short term gain that was achieved in motivating the black population behind exclusivity black leaders, was lost in the aftermath of a narrative that inherently screws black people, because they are only 13% of the population... So if it’s black vs white.. 13% ALWAYS loses to the other 87%... that’s math.

But if the split is set up purely along ideological lines....that’s where you can get above the 50% required to change things..




posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 11:48 PM
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Maybe you should read this again, after you sober up...



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 12:05 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Slavery has been around a lot longer than you think. There is no one race that has never had slavery forced upon them. There is no one sex that it doesn't pertain to. It is time to get past it, it no longer exists in this country legally. Good triumphed over evil.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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a reply to: 3daysgone

I just find it beyond belief that the word of God in the Bible got slavery wrong.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 12:41 AM
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I think maybe you ought to study up on just who John Brown was...

This'll get you started...



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

You gotta practice buffet Christianity bro.

Pick and choose parts of the Old Testament and New Testament want, kind of like a Golden Corral for religion. It's what most religious people of all faiths do.

Ignore the stuff you don't like, accept and preach the stuff you like and want.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:03 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

First up, the NAACP always had whites in leadership positions, going back to it's founding.
The problem with Dolezal was not her whiteness, but her lies and quackery.

The NOI has never been a civil rights org, they being a religious movement who wanted separation not segregation, small but important distinction.


Not all blacks were convinced that America would hold any future for them, and especially in that era seemed likely true, whites like Brown were far and few in between hence you get Garvey and his back to Africa movement, which kinda influenced the NOI.

Another thing Malcolm X views evolved on the issue of race after his travels overseas during his Hajj, he was able to observed Whites outside the boundaries of the U.S in a very different light ,especially if they were Muslims.

Another is the patronizing paternalistic attitudes leveled at some "white" liberals, that caused distrust.

The Klan, there have been blacks passing as Whites who joined Klan org to hide suspicions of their non White origins, kinda like a Gay person that goes through ridiculous extremes to hide the fact they are gay.

edit on 20-11-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

As do places of color have people of their color. I fail to see how color has anything to do with it. Say that in China, Japan or some other Country who value it's heritage.

See where i'm going with this?

Forcing sh't on ppl doesnt make society better, it makes it worse. And they know it, thats why their doing it. omg the world ... has become so ignorant.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:10 AM
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a reply to: 3daysgone

Did you read the whole thing??

I know exactly who John Brown was..

You need to actually point to what I’m getting wrong or I have no idea what point your making..

I think he is a good example because he is undeniable proof that a person from the oppressing class, can want equality.. maybe more that ANYONE in the oppressed class..



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:10 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

Leave people alone and they will get along fine. Push a market on them, like the one they've been pushing for decades and everyone will become racist. People have become so stupid.
edit on 20-11-2017 by ShatteredKingdom because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:12 AM
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a reply to: 3daysgone

Who claimed otherwise??

Did you even read the OP???

I’m not going off topic to explain the reasons that events where people are either still living today or were less than 2 life times ago is relevant....



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

Mainstream America absolutely aboandoned the southern blacks after reconstruction, (I just watched a lecture on the Colfax massacare..) plus you would have all the normal characters looking to profit off whatever chaos and misfortune, but I think those few and far between examples prove that taking an absolutist view is faulty logic.


The fact that they are/were there , I think it proves that the most committed champion of any cause, might come from anywhere and should be embraced as such.

As proof of my point I would put forth as exhibit A)

How many white civil rights leaders can your average American name???

1... John Brown
2.. Lincoln and he wasn’t really an abolitionist..

How many black ones??

Rosa Parks, Douglass , Tubman, MLK, Malcom X , Farrakhan, Colin kapernick, al sharpten, Jesse Jackson

ALL of those are hose hold names.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: ShatteredKingdom

I'm not sure of your response, America as we know it started out "multi racial" or multi ethnic, multi cultural, uneven in population and power to be sure , but there was never a time when others were not present.

But it's no Japan or China..BTW which have significant non Han ethnic groups culture and languages.
edit on 20-11-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:27 AM
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a reply to: ShatteredKingdom

Yup, never should have forced that whole abolition, interfration or women’s suffrage on the people who didn’t want it..

What?!?!



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Hmmm, this is quite the post. I want to make a detailed response but I don't even know where to start lol. So I'll just give a small response and then you can tell me if there's anything specific you want to talk about.

1) Please don't overrate Frederick Douglass. Yes, during his time period he was definitely one of the pillars of civil rights & abolition. And yes, during his time period he was like the MLK of civil rights. But to be blunt, we were still 2nd class citizens for roughly 70 years after he died. His efforts couldn't even end the eugenics programs of his time period, much less affect the nearly nationwide Jim Crow laws and the Segregation period that would last for 69-70 years after he died.

2) John Brown failed & he failed hard though to be fair, if I was around back then, I would've died in a failed slave revolt, so it's not like I don't understand where he was coming from. Believe it or not, most African Americans didn't want to separate from "white America" nor kill off "white America". For example, the reason Marcus Garvey is largely forgotten now is because he was a strong proponent of the "Back to Africa" movement. But most African Americans didn't want to leave. We wanted to end racial segregation and be treated as equals right here, which is the entire point of the Civil Rights Movement and the exact opposite of the calls for leaving here or having a separate homeland. I can get into the "Black Power" movement if necessary, but I really don't want to.

3) When did Malcolm X say that? I'm not claiming that you're a liar; I'm asking about the time frame. When he was with the Nation of Islam, he was never the leader. So he couldn't have made the call anyway, especially since John Brown was basically an internationally known terrorist. Letting him join and "take the keys", as you put it, could've been the same as suicide for the NOI (especially since they weren't a violent group).

And once Brother Malcolm left the Nation of Islam, his outlook changed completely. After going on Hajj, he also met with many African revolutionary leaders of the time & started linking the African American Civil Rights Movement to the global decolonization movement. Remember, most of Africa was going through the decolonization period then, which largely consisted of violent revolutions and/or nationwide civil disobedience to kick out the occupying Europeans.

Then Malcolm (now named el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz) started organizations meant to get the UN and other major organizations to take up the cause of African Americans. And once again, allowing John Brown to join these organizations would've been suicide for those organizations since they were looking for global alliances, UN recognition, and a bunch more.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

I agree absolutism is the lazy approach,
Well I could reel off the names of those who paid it in full, like Cheney Schwerner...authors like Loren Katz etc..but yeah while most do not show up in causal conversations, they are easily accessible in the historical documents.
Look at Burnie for example.
edit on 20-11-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Mainstream America abandoned them? That implies they gave anything resembling a crap to begin with. To be sure, some did, most, however, did not.

Mainstream America also didn't like the Irish. Or the Chinese. ...and, of course, there were the Native Americans.

White civil rights workers/advocates? Just because they aren't household names, doesn't mean there weren't, and aren't, any. Give that notion a rest. They quietly went about helping as they could, not because they wanted to be remembered in history books, or households, but because it was the right thing to do. You can bet the folks they helped remembered them!



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:44 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

You're reading me all wrong. I love all people. I don't care what color a person is. I have two close friends who are not anglo saxon, and they are awesome. That is not the problem. The problem is the left trying to push their poison on everyone. I don't think I can speak here because I don't think you would understand.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:45 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

screw you, you're a man what do you know.



posted on Nov, 20 2017 @ 01:45 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


NAACP = National Association Advancing Colored People. Our ORANGE President could lead the organization.

He cares more about people of color than many people of color care about people of color.
edit on 11/20/2017 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



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