8,000 year old carved image maybe first ever of a leashed dogs

a reply to: seasonal
They're lying about dogs?

But it's not the Smithsonian who is doing the work.

a reply to: seasonal

Maybe those dogs have the human leashed and hunting for them. Kinda like what we do now.

a reply to: DISRAELI

This could also be a warning to others, a signal to show others how they can expect to die if they are found on the hunting grounds of this group.

a reply to: seasonal

The two leashed dogs could be the alpha male and female. The rest could be their offspringpack. The pack would be subservient to the alpha's and the alpha's to the hunter.

Maybe his sizeable dong is to signify he's the big dick of the pack and the leases the control of the pack. Just a thought.

a reply to: seasonal

They're not involved in any way though. They were asked for comment by the author. Nothing more. They're not making any claims on the age, that's Maria Guagnin and her team. You're extrapolating something that doesn't actually exist because of confirmation bias. All if the information is in your citation yet all you got out isn't was "The Smithsonian makes me skeptical and they claim X and Y so it could be Q because I don't believe anything the Smithsonian says" when none of that actually applies.

a reply to: peter vlar

Noted

a reply to: seasonal

Here's a link to the paper written by the actual lead on the site-

www.sciencedirect.com...

a reply to: peter vlar

A key challenge in the use of archaeological evidence from rock art is the lack of direct dating methods.

This line sums it up folks---there is no scientific method for conclusively dating these depictions. Yet they spend pages and pages on supposition and guestimations. So their "science" turns into speculation and while it may be "educated speculation" the fact remains that it is simply speculation.

a reply to: diggindirt

And? I never made any claims on the age. I simply pointed out the folly of ignoring all of the information due to a nonexistent link to the Smithsonian then posted a link to the paper written by the lead on this site. Make your own conclusions, but an educated guess from someone trained with years of experience carries a little more weight. I'd like to see dating done on the patina to find out how long the carvings have been exposed but at the same time, the iconography is very similar to pottery from Iran that's been dated to 8 KA so it's not an unreasonable inference to think they're from a similar time frame.

a reply to: peter vlar
I was simply pointing out a line from the link you posted in which the authors admit that there is no scientific method to determine when these drawings were done. Didn't mean at all to say that you were making claims on the age.

I would absolutely love it if someone could come up with a scientific way to date such findings but so far it hasn't happened so guestimation is the best method at present. In a "publish or perish" world, these folks feel the need to publish volumes on their guesses---when "My best estimation based on the surroundings...." would suffice since there is no scientific method to make the determination.

Sorry if you took it personally. It wasn't meant that way at all.

a reply to: diggindirt

For anyone who thinks that archeology is not controlled, I urge looking into digs in the 1960's in Mexico. People's careers were ruined because of the true ages of finds. Those finds are now starting to be recognized now.

Archeology is a get along to get along career.

"7,999.9 year old carved image maybe first ever of a pooper scooper."

Harte

originally posted by: intrptr


Just wondering how we absolutely know those are dogs? The rock appears broken, too bad we can't see what he's pointing the bow at.

Right.
They're probably cats.

Harte

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: seasonal
The two could overlap. If they were hanging around, it would be easier to kidnap them.
The key to making them useful in the hunt would be getting them to hand over what they found instead of eating it all themselves.

Only if you use the dog to catch your prey.
More likely they were used to herd the prey toward the hunters.
Sharing the kill would satisfy the dogs.

Harte

a reply to: seasonal
I spent 26 years in that field. I know from experience.

A couple of decades ago I had a good friend who was pretty much drummed out of the profession, along with six others, for finding a site in Peru that was "too old" and didn't fit in with the leading professor's latest hypothesis as expounded in his latest textbook at the time. His exact words were, "If you publish these findings my book will be out of print in a month." The finding were confirmed by three different labs. Only in the past five years or so have these findings become "acceptable."

a reply to: diggindirt

The truth must fit the mold. If not TPTB in this very controlled field will crush you.

But many believe love makes the world go around and the truth is what is published. BS, it is controlled to keep the narrative going. We can not be told the truth.

a reply to: seasonal
Neat find, Seasonal.

Since the possibility of the lines being leashes were taken into account, I'm wondering if the crescent shapes starting at some of their mouths has any kind of meaning.

Like maybe a common stripe in coloration they had or something?

a reply to: Noncents

The story says they think it is individual coat markings. I think that make sense.

a reply to: seasonal
Very cool. I haven't dug into the actual article about it yet. Will be doing so shortly.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SilverOwls

Thank you.


I bet there was a pretty big turf war, with many a man and dog for the main ingredient for dinner.

It seems that the mutation of dogs goes hand in hand with human evolution, maybe you mean wolves?

It's a big step for any species to accept another as companions, we do see it nature and sometimes it's bizarre. I suspect humans and dogs have been together a while longer than we suspect...

Wolf to dog though? I'm guessing that stuff happened quick, wolves have historically been our competitors too.. It makes you wonder how such relationships came about since evidence suggests we never liked each other.

With that all being said, a lot of recent studies suggest wolves are a lot more "humane" than we gave credit for.

Then again, we've lost touch with nature in the grand scheme of things. Just like dogs. Specialists in so many fields and ultimately capable of so much more yet lost our place as a species in the world around us.

The story of primate and canine is probably the greatest Earth story to date, it's proved the most successful relationship too, for us.