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Trump Tax Plan will be Devestating to Seniors and Poor People

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posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 06:58 PM
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The "people die unless we raise taxes" argument is so fundamentally flawed. It's not an A or B situation. Especially not in America.

Why do you think churches are exempt from taxes. Because America was built so the government doesn't handle social issues like healthcare. Those tasks are delegated to the church. By design. You don't have to be religious to be American but you do have to respect the pragmatic utilization of the church.

In northern California we recently got levelled by wildfires. It wasn't FEMA that came to the rescue, it was the churches. In fact, they had a hard time reaching out to aliens that were afraid Trump would get ahold of them by don't so. No one was reported to the government, no one was turned away. This was the system working and it didn't have a damn thing to do with Trump or Obama.

It is infuriating listening to Democrats attack Republicans because they want less government involvement in things like this while disregarding the fact the church is already tasked with this stuff. Yes Republicans want the government out of it, but we dont want it left as a black hole. We want the church fulfilling their role.

The question isn't if people should be helped, it's should the government be the ones facilitating this help. You might have trusted that power under Obama, but how about now.. basically, this stuff should not be politicized. Stop pushing to make it that way.




posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 07:16 PM
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It's Sunday so I've been drinking, warning in advance! Remember the shoggoth day and keep it holy, they say. Or something like that...

The cost we pay in taxes will increase as the country grows. More people means more government paid services which means more taxes. That's base level stuff.

Everyone running for office at some point along the way tries to say they'll lower taxes somehow. They don't. They don't have the authority to, that's on congress. By the power of purse-skull!

Trump, in all his majestic orange skin and frothy headed-glory, didn't write the tax plan. Bet. This came from congressional offices with healthy input from the money movers and shakers. I don't know, totally guessing about that part, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Federal Reserve didn't have some kind of input into our tax plans.

IF this passes, it's because congress thought it was a good idea, good enough to move it forward at bear-minimum (and yes bear is intentional, as in we might as well be bears to these people). The president is just the final yes or no, and honestly even congress can override a veto if they wanted to.

How many of you talking here online have contacted your representatives to speak your mind to them? Any of you? If not, your words are meaningless to the process. Probably are anyway but at least talking with them gives the impression like we're doing something. Write your senators. Do something more than type on a conspiracy site.

That's all on topic I have to say. But...

Just wait for the next election. They'll fix the tax problem. They'll fix the healthcare problem. They'll fix it all. It's like a dream come true when election season is around. It's like Christmas with a lot less good will and a lot more lies.

Happy early Liesmas, everybody.

(to not single out the Christians I'll add in a happy Dishonnakah and Bullshwanza as well, equality, it's what's for dinner)
edit on 19-11-2017 by Noncents because: I didn't edit anything, just wanted to say I was trying to produce a laugh with this post. Hopefully that was accomplished. Peace.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

No, I edited.

I worked with some that I could believe it of. They were almost never at school. Most were simply ignorant and could have known better had they bothered to apply themselves a bit, but there were a few that were dumber than a box of rocks (and I am not singling out ethnicity, the school I was at had several ethnicities in it) in a special kind of way.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 08:04 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Xtrozero

It's sad that Democrats are against tax cuts for their own constituents.

It's amazing that they think everyone who votes for them is poor and downtrodden.

The cuts would certainly benefit our household, but it's at the expense of those struggling much harder. F it, I don't want the cut if it screws over the poor.

That is called the ends DO NOT justify the means and being smart enough to see it.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Xtrozero

The republicans NEVER offer much good. Only good for the rich and powerful or the defense industry

All they do is stop things that help the poor and MC, and offer bills that protect the rich like this tax cut bill.


I'm republican, and not rich. I have done much better under republicans than democrats. Democrats do not create jobs and have never helped the poor. After 8 years under a Democrat president they are still poor, so what gives?



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: proximo

The problem is that insurance is not about a few percent off the top. Insurance invites cost increases and fraud by its very nature.

Every industry, every business, is looking to maximize profits. That means a balance between cost and quantity of sales. If someone is making a toaster, they want to price it so they make the highest possible profit. The lower the price, the more people will be able and willing to buy it. Too low and the profit per piece means they won't make as much; too high and the sales drop so they don't make as much.

When insurance is paying the bill, that cost is hidden from the consumer. Who cares if something cost three times as much as it should, if someone else is footing the bill? Sure, the extra cost is passed on to the consumer by the insurance companies, but most people don't think about that in the heat of the moment. Even if they do,there is the consideration that their one purchase spread out across so many policyholders won't make much difference, or the idea that the insurance companies have plenty of money, so why not?

The result is that insurance shifts the supply and demand equation by isolating the cost from the consumer. Thus, the medical profession can charge more,making more profit per patient, without losing business. That's not an economic theory; it is a fact,backed up by the fact that every single industry that has become insured has had major price increases. That includes auto body repair, auto mechanics, auto parts, pet care, and more recently appliance repair prices are starting to rise in response to homeowners maintenance insurance.

Medical care is even more susceptible, because the consequences for choosing not to purchase are so high: serious pain, permanent injury, or even death. If a doctor wants a test run, the patient who is insured will almost always agree... someone else is paying for it, and the test might help the doctor treat them. It doesn't matter if he wants a brain scan to go along with a broken leg... the doctor is assumed the expert. The doctor gets the advantage of better legal defense if there is a malpractice suit, at no cost to him, at no immediate cost to the patient, and the whole industry pays.

And of course, as long as the patient trusts the doctor, the patient will agree to almost anything claimed to help them. Combine that with the fact that an insurer, while very concerned with fraud, has the ability to cover a certain amount of fraud by premium increases,and fraud detection is expensive itself... it can actually be cheaper to ignore a certain level of fraud.

So while you're right that the real issue is cost increases, that does not mean the real issue is not insurance.

TheRedneck


I don't blame insurance companies for hospital and doctors lack of price transparency. That is on them and the government for letting them get away with it.

If we had a real fair market it would solve a lot of the cost issues, and it would not be hard, just enforce existing laws.

You are wrong though insurance companies are getting far better prices than a guy off the street, they are in no way encouraging the high prices they are trying to make a profit, by getting the best deal they can.

edit on 19-11-2017 by proximo because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-11-2017 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:40 PM
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originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: Willtell

All hail big government! All hail the powerful welfare state! Your dream:

"Look, if I had my druthers, the city government would determine every single plot of land, how development would proceed. And there would be very stringent requirements around income levels and rents."


Welfare state?


Then the whole civilized world is on welfare.

Do you like the police when your house is robbed? The fire department when you have a fire, roads to drive your Mercedes on.

If no to any of these then move to Yemen!



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: Willtell

All hail big government! All hail the powerful welfare state! Your dream:

"Look, if I had my druthers, the city government would determine every single plot of land, how development would proceed. And there would be very stringent requirements around income levels and rents."


Welfare state?


Then the whole civilized world is on welfare.

Do you like the police when your house is robbed? The fire department when you have a fire, roads to drive your Mercedes on.

If no to any of these then move to Yemen!


Where I live fire Dept is volunteer and private contractors do most of the road construction.

Police can also be privately maintained as well if necessary.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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This is one topic along with environment that conservatives are flat out wrong on. Their economics have been proven wrong by scores of economists, have increased economic inequality to epic proportions, and are a failure of justice. I don't get how anybody but the greedy or ignorant can still support it. a reply to: CB328



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Xtrozero

It's sad that Democrats are against tax cuts for their own constituents.

It's amazing that they think everyone who votes for them is poor and downtrodden.

The cuts would certainly benefit our household, but it's at the expense of those struggling much harder. F it, I don't want the cut if it screws over the poor.

That is called the ends DO NOT justify the means and being smart enough to see it.


Good for you. Donate a check every quarter like trump does. Talk is cheap. As for me I know government waste fraud and abuse is rampant and jobs plentiful everywhere. I work for me and mine and do not give one half shat about you and yours.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is one topic along with environment that conservatives are flat out wrong on. Their economics have been proven wrong by scores of economists, have increased economic inequality to epic proportions, and are a failure of justice. I don't get how anybody but the greedy or ignorant can still support it. a reply to: CB328



Scores of economists you agree with.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: CB328

This quote makes it crystal clear that the left does not understand simple math.

"Well, again, you don't need to be an expert to know that when the Republicans are in control of government, the rich often benefit the most. "

Anyways hopefully this helps the economy grow and the bubble from bursting.
How is that? You do realize that reaganomics has been proven to be quite destructive and resulted in purely more capital accumulation for the uber wealthy right? You do realize most economists agree now on this fact, even former neo liberals?



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is one topic along with environment that conservatives are flat out wrong on. Their economics have been proven wrong by scores of economists, have increased economic inequality to epic proportions, and are a failure of justice. I don't get how anybody but the greedy or ignorant can still support it. a reply to: CB328



Scores of economists you agree with.
Please demonstrate how neo liberal economics have provided wealth growth for anyone but the already wealthy? It's an economic fact that since the late 70s real wages and income have stagnated for everyone but the very wealthy.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:54 PM
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The democrats have supported neo liberal and wall st friendly policies since at least Bill Clinton. Both parties are complicit.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 09:55 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is one topic along with environment that conservatives are flat out wrong on. Their economics have been proven wrong by scores of economists, have increased economic inequality to epic proportions, and are a failure of justice. I don't get how anybody but the greedy or ignorant can still support it. a reply to: CB328



It's easy to tell from your syntax you aren't educated. The truth is I don't care for you or yours health or well being. It matters not to me. You libturds are under this delusion that you deserve the fruits of our toils. You don't. Life is tough and you mean nothing to me.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 10:46 PM
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a reply to: Templeton

What if I'm not religious? Or believe in a different church from you? Can you state unequivocably that your church will treat me equally to one of your own members in a mutual time of need?

Even still, if that's the case, then why don't we just have my church cover yours?

Church should not be involved in social services. That's precisely what the government is for. Church is there for your spiritual health, government is there for services that shouldn't be run for profit. Corporations are there to bind you in all kinds of contract laws.

Right now, we have freedoms guaranteed by laws and by the constitution if it falls under government jurisdiction. If it falls under the church or under a corporation, we have none of that... that's why I'm skeptical of leaving a void when government is pushed back.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Telling people to not have sex doesn't work. Abstinance based educations lead to higher rates of pregnancy. The problem is that most people end up being driven to sex. When that happens, unless you want to force a family on people who are unlikely to commit to one, it's best to ensure they don't have children. That means a bunch of birth control needs to be available. Both the man and the woman should be using something, and even then... sometimes things don't go right.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

25000? That's middle class. Not poor.

Did you know people are attempting to make it on half that? Some people, such as those with disabilities are living on even less than that... with virtually no hope of ever seeing an increase to their income.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: CB328

It is false to claim over a cut of a trillion dollars from a program only budgeted 970 billion combined so we can at least agree that is ridiculous.



CBO scoring is projected 10 years in advance, so that's how all cuts are measured. Honestly, trillion dollar cuts are pretty much pocket change because we'll spend 70 trillion in that time. Cutting 1 trillion helps, but is not a large decrease.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

25000? That's middle class. Not poor.

Did you know people are attempting to make it on half that? Some people, such as those with disabilities are living on even less than that... with virtually no hope of ever seeing an increase to their income.

Eh, calling it MC depends on where you are in the country. Where we are in MI, totally doable, we did it for several years paying all the bills & feeding 3 adults & 2 kids on that roughly $20 a day before jumping up the income tiers. $25k where we came from in FL? F# no, that's poverty level down there.







 
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