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Trump Tax Plan will be Devestating to Seniors and Poor People

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posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Look2theSacredHeart

How is pregnancy ever a surprise?

Are you saying the people in your area are so poorly educated that they truly have no idea how pregnancy occurs?

It's not like you suddenly wake up pregnant out of the blue. There is no random spontaneous conception.



Ok, seriously... where are you getting your magic, inexpensive, 100% effective birth control? It sounds amazing!

Do you really not have any friends who say "Yeah, with little Brayden, we were on the pill" or "Madison there was a surprise... condom must have broke" or "Henry was our little miracle, totally dodged my IUD". I hear that all the time from my conservative middle-class family members, announcing new cousins, etc.




posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Look2theSacredHeart
a reply to: CB328

I expect abortion rates would go up for the younger poor, and mortality rates will go up for the older poor, bringing down the average life expectancy in the U. S.

Solutions:
I would prefer my taxes go to Medicare, Medicaid, etc rather than weapons and war. Government for the people.

Since that's not likely, I think charity will have to step up and fill the void. My friend the social worker, who's adopted six kids from horrible situations? On only 30 k a year? Maybe some groceries should mysteriously show up on her porch so she can afford doctor's visits. Maybe hospitals will start waiving the bills of poor seniors because of a fund started by a local businessman.

These solutions are imaginary at this point. But they don't have to be.



You know that won't happen. Never has. The only other volunteers I see working beside me when I'm chopping onions are poor people. I never see a middle class white man or wealthy conservatives serving sandwiches to the homeless. Unless there's a photo op.



Tons of super wealthy liberals though right?

In my area conservative church groups do almost all of the soup kitchens and charity services.

I'm my travels a large percentage of local charities are conservative and Christian.


It's like you are itching to be offended by something. I didn't say liberals. I specifically mentioned conservatives because trusting in charity vs safety nets is a conservative talking point.


Why would I be offended? I'm not a Christian conservative so it has nothing to do with me.

I was pointing out something that I have observed in different places around the country. Conservative Christian groups frequently are the main provider locally and they do it with donations from other Christian conservatives.

Feel free to remain ignorant. I will endeavor to never share any new information with you in the future.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

My point is simply that if you have sex you know there is always a chance you could end up pregnant.

There is no true surprise, not to the extent that that you should honestly portray yourself as an innocent victim of pregnancy as if it snuck up on you.

You played; you should always, always be prepared to pay, no matter how "safe" you thought you made yourself.

But your point about no birth control being 100% is I think the main thrust of my remark.

edit on 19-11-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko



Are you saying the people in your area are so poorly educated that they truly have no idea how pregnancy occurs?


Ive personally had long conversations with practicing Doctors and Nurses working at Charity Hospital in New Orleans who've reported weekly intake of young women, 12~15 year olds living in the NOLA projects who had no idea they were pregnant and had no idea however it happened. Just an FYI.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: ketsuko



Are you saying the people in your area are so poorly educated that they truly have no idea how pregnancy occurs?


Ive personally had long conversations with practicing Doctors and Nurses working at Charity Hospital in New Orleans who've reported weekly intake of young women, 12~15 year olds living in the NOLA projects who had no idea they were pregnant and had no idea however it happened. Just an FYI.


I can believe they had no idea they were pregnant before I can believe they had no idea how it happened unless they skipped a whole lot of school.

*EDIT*

Wait... I did teach inner city junior high ... I can believe they skipped enough school to be that ignorant.
edit on 19-11-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Look2theSacredHeart
a reply to: CB328

I expect abortion rates would go up for the younger poor, and mortality rates will go up for the older poor, bringing down the average life expectancy in the U. S.

Solutions:
I would prefer my taxes go to Medicare, Medicaid, etc rather than weapons and war. Government for the people.

Since that's not likely, I think charity will have to step up and fill the void. My friend the social worker, who's adopted six kids from horrible situations? On only 30 k a year? Maybe some groceries should mysteriously show up on her porch so she can afford doctor's visits. Maybe hospitals will start waiving the bills of poor seniors because of a fund started by a local businessman.

These solutions are imaginary at this point. But they don't have to be.



You know that won't happen. Never has. The only other volunteers I see working beside me when I'm chopping onions are poor people. I never see a middle class white man or wealthy conservatives serving sandwiches to the homeless. Unless there's a photo op.



Tons of super wealthy liberals though right?

In my area conservative church groups do almost all of the soup kitchens and charity services.

I'm my travels a large percentage of local charities are conservative and Christian.


It's like you are itching to be offended by something. I didn't say liberals. I specifically mentioned conservatives because trusting in charity vs safety nets is a conservative talking point.


Why would I be offended? I'm not a Christian conservative so it has nothing to do with me.

I was pointing out something that I have observed in different places around the country. Conservative Christian groups frequently are the main provider locally and they do it with donations from other Christian conservatives.

Feel free to remain ignorant. I will endeavor to never share any new information with you in the future.


I apologize if I was wrong there. My beef with what you said was how you married the terms "conservative" and "Christian" as if I was attacking Christians by mentioning I don't ever work alongside conservatives.

To be honest, we do have inner-city church groups with canned food drives and various donations. But they are certainly not the kind of churches I would classify as "conservative". Most that help out Sotr (the outfit I normally work with) or Central City Concern are very liberal churches, even the Catholic ones (or at least they look Catholic, Episcopal, maybe).

So the connecting of the two (partisanship and religion) always bothers me as it's just another lie to divide the left and right.

Bottom line, our downtown poverty issues would be worse without our church organizations and I will never deny that.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe




Conservative Christian groups frequently are the main provider locally and they do it with donations from other Christian conservatives.
Yeah. Statistically that's true. It's also true that the recipients of those donations is are the discretion of the donors. Firstly to supporting the church to which they belong, then to supporting other religiously affiliated organizations, then to secular organizations. At least, they did (Now they seem to donate to Republican candidates, bigly).
www.philanthropy.com...


The government is more egalitarian about it.


edit on 11/19/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Look2theSacredHeart
a reply to: CB328

Solutions:
I would prefer my taxes go to Medicare, Medicaid, etc rather than weapons and war. Government for the people.



Companies that make weapons and war employ a lot of middle class people. Why do you want to take away their livelihood and force them into the streets?


You do realize that there are more things to manufacture besides weapons, right? Just as factories were "retooled' to make weapons, they can be "retooled" to make non-weapons.

Justifying countless spending and endless wars just to employ middle class people? Basically you're okay with people eating, having a peaceful life whilst others (who may or may not be civilians) are dying from the products made when those products are used as intended?



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

My point is simply that if you have sex you know there is always a chance you could end up pregnant.

There is no true surprise, not to the extent that that you should honestly portray yourself as an innocent victim of pregnancy as if it snuck up on you.

You played; you should always, always be prepared to pay, no matter how "safe" you thought you made yourself.

But your point about no birth control being 100% is I think the main thrust of my remark.



So... all poor people should be abstinent, bottom line? Should they not smile or play board games, too?



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: Look2theSacredHeart

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Look2theSacredHeart
a reply to: CB328


Why did your friend adopt so many kids if they can't afford them?


Because she's a compassionate and noble person. These were kids she rescued (social worker) from parents wrecked by their own drug use and violence. Several have disabilities, and she knew they needed more stability than the foster care system provides.

If you think that's leaching off the system, I'm sure that wouldn't bother her. She thinks people who buy new cars and trophy houses are sucking the system dry, ignoring those in need in favor of material status symbols.
She gets paid for those kids though right? By the state? I'm glad she's doing it, but she has just found her niche to carve out a living. Which i have no problem with. There are plenty of folks who do the same thing. A lot of them are unsavory and do it for the money.

I have a customer who has a young girl with cerebral palsy and another guy who has a daughter with down syndrome. They both live in lavish homes by parading their children on the internet and recieving donations. I also have no problem with that, even though one of them has a collection of Lamborghinis for his troubles. The charity is out there for people who can't take care of themselves.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


For one, in a red state, some just can't afford birth control. Condoms do fail.

Abysha said it best. Birth control fails. Even vasectomies.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: Look2theSacredHeart

I live in a red state.

Birth control is not that expensive. Even when we were at our poorest, we found ways to afford it. And that was living on around $25,000/year ... maybe - our budget left us with between $15 and $20/day for everything like food and gas and essentials like that. And, yes, we were aware it could fail, and we were also aware of the responsibility. So, no, if I had gotten pregnant, we would not have called it a "surprise" pregnancy. It would not have been. We were active. It was a possibility.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: CB328
Trump's Tax Plan will be Devestating to Seniors and Poor People by cutting almost a trillion and a half dollars out of medicare and medicaid which help poor and old people with medical care.


Well the first place you are seriously wrong in the 1.5 trillion. That is the dollars ALL American's will receive in tax reduction...You like tax reduction don't you? Everyone gets reduction, but the very rich who will still be at 39.8%. Lots of simplifying and savings....This is something we need every few decades to reset the bar back to a non-socialist state.




In fact, many seniors depend on these programs to pay for their nursing homes, so what's going to happen to them if the Republicans decimate their funding? After denying for decades that they want to "kill granny" and even making jokes about it, claiming that Democrats are exaggerating GOP policies, this is exactly what will happen with this immoral and unecessary tax cut- poor people and seniors will be devestated and some will die, for something completely unneeded. This is the height of immorality, IMO and proof of why the Republicans should never have power in this countr again.



Yep kill granny...lol Isn't Obamacare the one with the death panels?

Obamacare is dying on the vine no matter what we do. The Dems knew this would happen the day they put it into law, so if we do nothing we end up with the same mess as whether we kill it of not. Here is the part that upsets you...the repeal of the health tax mandate, that will reduce 350 billion out of the Obamacare pot. Now, over a decade UNLESS WE DO NOTHING we would be back before Obamacare with about 12 million without health insurance.

Do you want Sanders healthcare with a 200% tax increase for EVERYONE to pay for it?



edit on 19-11-2017 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Good for you. Now look up the Federal poverty level. 25k sounds pretty cushy to a lot of people. You could probably afford going to the doctor!

I was told I'd have to have fertility treatment to get pregnant and even then it would be iffy. PCOS. Guess what. My daughter was conceived naturally, which was a total and happy surprise. Your limited viewpoint does not represent the reality of family planning.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Case and point those that game the system are causing the short comings your experiencing. Your sharing what you worked for your entire life with 25 year olds that have learned its easier to get on fake disability, have a ton of illegitimate children ect. My neihbors are foreigners whom never take their kids to the doctors but go to the emergency room for every ailment. This is taking funds away from what you earned.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: Saiker
a reply to: Byrd

Case and point those that game the system are causing the short comings your experiencing. Your sharing what you worked for your entire life with 25 year olds that have learned its easier to get on fake disability, have a ton of illegitimate children ect. My neihbors are foreigners whom never take their kids to the doctors but go to the emergency room for every ailment. This is taking funds away from what you earned.



Lol, they got so many fooled. You think the biggest costs of "gaming the system" comes from poor people?

I get it; it's easier to despise the smelly guy asking for change on the corner than it is the guy in the suit walking out of a firm but... really? Do you believe that poor people "gaming the system" is why the rest of us are experiencing shortcomings?

And do you really know why your foreign neighbors take their kids to the very expensive emergency room every time they have an issue? Have you asked them if they have insurance? If they don't, why? Because, according to most on ATS, everybody here illegally is costing us tons from "free insurance".

How many angles can we all blame poor people from for all of our problems?



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:50 PM
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"Trump Tax Plan will be Devestating to Seniors and Poor People"

Those Trump-fans and conservatives supporting this?

"So?"



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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Hes eating his own head!

This is despicable behavior. Tax the rich #tch. Stop stealing.
edit on 19-11-2017 by anotherside because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

*sigh*

People like that game the system themselves, manipulating and taking advantage of others...so they automatically assume everyone else is trying to do the same thing -- including the poor.

Sort of like that high-drama person at work who gossips a lot They assume everyone is always talking behind their back because they talk about everyone behind their backs.



posted on Nov, 19 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Honestly, I was genuinely trying to be helpful and informative and the lesson conveyed is the absolute horor produced in the NOLA housing projects. I believe in helping others to help themselves, but believe me when I say that the old housing block apartment concept like Cabrini Green in Chicago and the Desire Street housing project in NOLA were utterly terrible.

Would have learned enough in school? Many didn't go to school and conditions of gangs and crime meant no one was sent in to find them. I was in NOLA for years and really, after Katrina (and I was in NOLA the Tuesday following the storm) really brought to light the horrid effects of multiple generations of people having been confined to the Projects. Yes, truly those kids had no idea how they got pregnant. Worse, it was usually a family member or close relative that got them pregnant. Because of that, when the refugees from the projects landed in Houston, (where I was living), Harris County with aid from FEMA did thorough medical and mental health screenings on the refugees and determined the average I.Q. of the youth was 86. It had been reduced through years of accidental in-breeding.

Other problems were discovered, I won't go into that, but the Harris County emergency services did what they could to help the refugees. One that really stood out was that they not only couldn't speak standard English, as well, they couldn't understand it and couldn't read English. Another nightmare was that their standard default "reaction" to any unexpected stimulus was violence. I was working with, (not for) the Harris County Sherriffs Dept. and they were relating stories about how they had to segregate the refugees when arrested from General Population, (Genpop), because they would flash anger violently and attack (and sometimes kill) other inmates, and worse, they didn't understand verbal commands. One of the Officers, a friend of mine, told me it was like working with people with severe PTSD.

Not to burst your bubble, but.........there are countless other areas in the US where this phenomenon exists, the Bayou country of South Louisiana, deep East Texas, parts of rural Mississippi, and northwest Florida.




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