Armed "Good Guy" Accidentally Shoots Himself and Wife in Church

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

and yet those very Freemasons guaranteed the right of the individual to own and bear arms and did so in such a manner the government could not take it away. Of course that is along with the other 26 amendments to our Constitution and the Constitution itself.

Symbols have been used, reused, misappropriated etc throughout history.

Like the pentagram (Pagan), the swastika (Egyptian), the hoods the KKK uses (religious order in Spain).

To see a symbol and assume its meaning is the same is short sighted dont you think?

Just like China and N. Korea calling themselves "republics" when their form of government is anything but. Does that mean all Republics behave the same way?

There are some stupid people out there

www.msn.com...

You can't save the world from stupid no matter how hard you might try.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: CB328

Guns and church is a strange combination even given recent events.

I mean is there anywhere else that's less appropriate to take a weapon?

Maybe it's just me after all i dont hail from the US.

You know, that was the first thing that came to mind for me when I read the story. I'm not religious at all, and certainly not Christian. However, my upbringing instilled in me a respect for the church sanctuary. And to this day I still take off my hat when I go into one. It's difficult for me to imagine taking a loaded firearm in there. It used to be part of our culture to consider the church off limits for the kind of slaughter we've seen lately. Thus there was no need for the patrons to be armed.

But times change. That reverence for places of worship is not taught anymore. The American society is awash in firearms and mental illness. It is the reality of the situation, and not anything that can be easily changed. Law enforcement can't be everywhere all the time.

So, sometimes it is incumbent on the average citizen to be prepared to defend himself and other innocents that may also be under threat. I believe that the vast majority of people who carry firearms are responsible gun owners. In fact, most people who carry these weapons have a deep respect for what they can do, and handle them accordingly.

Unfortunately given this current fear-of-disarmament mentality, and its accompanying politics, adequate and sensible controls can't be implemented. Restricting gun ownership from people who should clearly not have them would be a good start. Requiring proof of basic firearm training before allowing a weapon to be purchased seems to be a logical step. And possibly there are other controls that could be implemented without infringing on a citizen's 2nd Amendment rights. However, the current NRA lobbying effort prevents virtually any kind of firearm legislation from passing.

-dex

a reply to: WhiteWingedMonolith

DP

a reply to: WhiteWingedMonolith

Everyone is a criminal until they turn to Jesus Christ.

Yawn, Nowhere in your bible doe sit say that. You need to re-read it

a reply to: Xcathdra
well you seem to be living in the 18th century.
the rest of us in the 21st.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
Whilst we're talking Latin - no doubt you're aware of the Fasces in your House and also at Lincolns statue

Unlike the American interpretation of the fasces as a symbol of strength through unity, the Italian fascists identified with the power and brutality also inherent in the fasces' meaning

An educational moment brought to you by the National Park Service.

a reply to: WhiteWingedMonolith

they believe in this time/space reality. But in the merged time/space reality

I'm starting to doubt if you're serious or not.

"merged"!!!

Maybe Jesus should give you some Physics lessons

a reply to: WhiteWingedMonolith

DP

a reply to: DexterRiley

Different strokes for different folks mate.

The times are a changing, but Guns can change your day in a really bad way imho.

Logically you should not require a firearm for protection in any nation where there is a rule of law, especially a first world nation like the US.

But again that's just my opinion.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Surely though, 80 year olds should still have the right to defend themselves?

originally posted by: Willtell
I agree with the OP on guns, but I think most public places like churches, supermarkets, malls, nightclubs, concerts, ball games, schools, in America because of all the guns, should have armed and trained security personal.

It might be good to make it mandatory

Sounds to me like a police state.

a reply to: andy06shake

You raise an interesting point though - your military.

Our federal military is prohibited by law from engaging in civilian law enforcement functions (Posse Comitatus Act and courtesy of the aftermath of our civil war). State military units are exempt but are rarely ever used in that capacity.

My point being the mass shooting that occurred in Vegas was one incident out of 10s of thousands of calls law enforcement nationwide took that night. While it was the deadliest mass shootings in the US it still pails in comparison the the knife mass killings in China where more than 40 people killed and over 130 injured - from a person armed with a knife.

I find it interesting that people say they arent afraid of terrorism yet somehow have issues with another countries laws.

Agree to disagree works for me.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well if it quacks like a duck.

originally posted by: Rikku
a reply to: Xcathdra
well you seem to be living in the 18th century.
the rest of us in the 21st.

No I am living in the 21st century.

a reply to: andy06shake

People pull the trigger but its the Gun that sends a projectile at the target at upward of 700Mph.

The object has no mind of its own. It travels by the will of the one who pulled the trigger. The intent to kill someone extends very far, but it starts in the mind of a person. Sometimes it only goes as far as a thought. Sometimes it goes as far as a fist or foot. Sometimes it infuses a knife, bat, or hammer with the will of the attacker. Sometimes it infuses the bullet launched from the barrel of a gun, but at no point is the connection to the individual broken. Choice is always the cause here, the mechanics of a firearm do not change or alter the person. People use tools, tools do not use us.

Most people simply don't have the stomach for it or, but pulling that trigger? Well the statistics and numbers dont lie.

The statistics and numbers have nothing to do with a "stomach" for it. Criminality by its very definition means an aberrant minority of individuals are likely to commit real crime(rape murder robbery assault). Guns are likely to be used, but criminal uses of guns are vastly outnumbered by defensive uses. Why is it those numbers don't matter? There's 100-110 million legal gun owners in the US. The vast majority of them do not do any harm to anyone else. Criminals are NOT law abiding citizens. They are NOT legal owners of guns. They do NOT represent "gun culture"(whatever that means), as those rights are reserved to the people who follow the only condition set upon them by the Constitution: To be PEACEABLE.

Criminals do not follow that condition. They infringe on the rights of others to include their lives and those who are peaceable should and must have the means by which to equalize the playing field. The gun is that means. It puts a small 120 lbs woman on equal footing with a large powerful man. Outside of crime is defense of nation and liberty. while those are not immediate threats we do not have a crystal ball and the notion that institutions set up to keep us safe from outside threats wouldn't be used against us someday haven't been paying attention to what's been going on since 9/11.

Don't talk to me about being able to defeat a tank with my AR15 when IEDs seem to do a pretty good job. Don't narrow the scope of warfare to what is immediately in front of you. Every soldier of my generation has learned COIN and we've applied it in practice. You wanna see a crazy unwinnable insurgency? Start # with Americans.

Everything in nature has a means to defend itself from the wolves. Humans are special in that we can be both the sheep and the wolves. We are the top of the food chain so we look inward for conquest. Those of us whose nature is not to conquer need to learn to defend what little does satisfy you.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I dont think any of us like terrorists yet our respective nations are so jolly well good at creating them and the next generation of such.

The knife dude was obviously a A1 nutball through, unfortunately, they exist.

"I find it interesting that people say they arent afraid of terrorism yet somehow have issues wit another countries laws."

Why ones not exactly synonymous with the other? Law and terrorism that is.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: WhiteWingedMonolith

I am sure he is however he is not here now and he is not participating in this thread so unless you have some credentials you can show us you should probably stop trying to speak in his name / for him.

Also you should brush up on your religion , particularly the part that says only God can judge man.


Again unless you can show us credentials you are not God either.

Having no credentials or TEARING THEM UP, is actually a prerequisite for soul/spirits in human meat suits to speak about God Almighty in Jesus Christ's name.

We are not to base our worth on 'credentials' as those are not obtained by any real physical hard work but instead a downloading and processing of information to obtain status and money. Be in that is condemnable by God Almighty, God has thus allowed Sophia and other Computers to download and process information faster than a speeding bullet in addition to not asking for an honor, diploma, certification, license, a pat on the back while also not expecting or asking for money.

It is by denying that ignorance you hold high and wave like a banner of righteousness, that led to Almighty God's wrath with the release of Super Computers, can one genuinely speak about such things as Truth being Held by Jesus Christ.

There is nothing to brush up on in that Jesus Christ is not a religion, He is a PATH, the ONLY path, to the heavenly of heavens, the true Kingdom of Heaven.

You would never protect me genuinely. You are not my protector. I do not want you to pack a gun so you can protect me with it. Do not ever think I would approve of you if you tried to save my life because you thought someone was going to kill me and you killed them. If God Almighty meant for me to die, then I die. If I live, it is because God allowed it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

To see a symbol and assume its meaning is the same is short sighted dont you think?

Symbols are used specifically for their meaning - esoterically the meaning is known. If It wasn't so the Fasces wouldn't be there.

You have the illusion of freedom. The fasces is there to remind you of the iron fist that your Congress will rain down on the citizenry if they decide to rebel.

You can call it incidental or a historical anomaly. Those who design such know otherwise.

a reply to: Aazadan

Providing they are still mentally capable. In fact at 80 a person would have more reason to need one as an equalizer when dealing with younger more powerful people. In this case though it was mentioned he had a memory issue which may or may not have been the cause of his accident. Some 80 year olds can drive well, while others should give up driving for their own and everyone elses safety. Same with guns.