Lord Rothschild Feared Dead After Plane Crash In Buckinghamshire

a reply to: Trillium

No, that doesn't make it intentional at all. Flight training is blocked, usual in hour long blocks, starting on the hour. That means that flight training is all going to depart at about the same time. Different schools aren't going to coordinate with each other as to where they're going and what they're doing.

With that area being remote and a lot of open area around the estate, it's probably a practice area. As I said in the other thread, with an altitude drop that extreme, either the plane had an engine problem, which would explain the sputtering report, or they were doing spin training, which would explain the rapid altitude loss. When I did spin training, we lost 1200 feet minimum, on average. Losing 2000 feet, for an inexperienced pilot would be easy.

Spotting a helicopter is hard enough if you know it's there to begin with, on a clear day, when you're flying straight and level. In a spin, when you're nose down, and rotating quickly, it would be almost impossible. And the helicopter wouldn't be able to see them because of the limited visibility above them.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I hear your an expert on aircraft and flying. So wouldn't both aircraft be carrying transponders which would alert them of an imminent collision? I happen to be a paraglider pilot myself and am familiar with the rules on avoiding mid air collisions.

I find it odd that neither pilots noticed each other at least and were unable to take avoiding action, something feels off about this incident.

Yay!!!!!

Another thread that shows people will believe anything, that truth equals whatever you happen to agree with today. Even when proven wrong, its easy to just use the false belief to further other beliefs born on shaky ground, then conveniently forget that you have done so....Gold fish memory syndrome.

"Why stand on the shoulders of Giants when its easier to use termite infested stilts," said my grandpappy while telling me a story about a man who was born a slave, became a propagandist for a while, then died a slave.

"When nothing is true....nothing is true...but also everything is true," the old kook used to mutter as he winked and wheezed at me. Cigar hanging from his lips. Hips made of metal. Gun at his temple. Nothing in his eyes. The desire to die a scent wafting to and fro. Then grandmammi would come in and he'd start talking about politics and rainbows and what team he supports. Just like everyone else. Little boxes full of blood and make believe.

But whatever.....your brand of bullsnip probably smells better than mine. What do I know. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.....Where have I heard that before?..................

Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings and CIA agents thou hast perfected praise?

a reply to: Trillium

what is the origin of that alledged data ?

a reply to: surfer_soul

No. They're not required to have an ADS-B transponder installed until after 2020. They're changing over now but there is a problem getting units to general aviation, because the airlines and military are placing big orders for them.

Even seeing a large aircraft near you in flight is difficult. Seeing a tiny helicopter, especially if they were doing spin training is almost impossible, even if a controller was on duty and called out a traffic advisory. And the helicopter has a very limited angle they can see above them, because of the rotor disc.

These are collisions where the pilots never saw the other aircraft:

www.cbc.ca...

Australia

generalaviationnews.com...

There were three aircraft in this one:
www.dailycamera.com...

This pilot didn't even know she was in a collision:
www.timescall.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: JBurns



Not anymore (not that I seriously did anyway).



The helicopter was on a sightseeing flight. They haven't identified the passenger yet.



In the Cessna were Saavan Mundae, an 18 year old who was working towards a commercial pilot rating, and instructor Jaspal Barha, 45.



www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: JBurns

They already identified the helicopter pilot as Mike Green. He was reported to be with a young student pilot.

a reply to: Zaphod58


Ah, thank you Zaphod

Do you think there is any merit to the claim that Rothschild was among those killed?

a reply to: JBurns

Not anymore (not that I seriously did anyway).

The helicopter was on a sightseeing flight. They haven't identified the passenger yet.

In the Cessna were Saavan Mundae, an 18 year old who was working towards a commercial pilot rating, and instructor Jaspal Barha, 45.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: Zaphod58

I read the article you linked to previously from the Herald and it appears the pilot of the plane was approaching the helicopter from above, it says the plane was coming down to land but that seems very unlikely unless it was an emergency. Either way that would explain why the helicopter had no visual on the plane. It says in the same article that plane previously made a crash landing in Cornwall. If it was the same pilot it sounds like they needed some more training.

Three of the four dead have been identified.

Three out of the four people who were killed in a mid-air crash between a helicopter and plane have been named in national reports.

Captain Mike Green was reportedly was on a training flight with a young student when his helicopter crashed into a light aircraft.

Bucks New University student Saavan Mundae was believed to be studying air transport and commercial pilot training at the High Wycombe university.

He is also reported to have died alongside his instructor, named by national reports as Jaspal Barha.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I see so the pilot or co pilot of the Cessna was an 18 year old under training.

It's still a tragedy though that no Rothschild was harmed in this incident.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Trillium

what is the origin of that alledged data ?

On here 4chan

about 10 to 20 post down

Here bit more info but still no name for #4

DailyMail

originally posted by: Trillium
Here bit more info but still no name for #4

DailyMail

That article also states:

Waddesdon Manor said in a statement: 'Lord Rothschild and his family extend their condolences to the families of all affected, and their thanks to the emergency services for their swift response and professionalism.'

So it would appear from the statement that Lord Rothschild is ok I guess. Though it must have been very close to the estate because their gardener also said:

Waddesdon Estate gardener Len Bellis described how he found the wreckage minutes later after hearing a 'horrendous noise'.

He said the Cessna was 'non-existent' but for a 5ft section of burning fuselage.

a reply to: surfer_soul

One of the witnesses on the estate said the engine was running rough just before the collision, so they might have had an emergency. It's too early to say though.

a reply to: Trillium

no - thats not the origin of the alledged data

4chins does NOT collate flight data

so i will ask again :

what is the origin of the aledged data

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: JBurns

Not anymore (not that I seriously did anyway).

The helicopter was on a sightseeing flight. They haven't identified the passenger yet.

In the Cessna were Saavan Mundae, an 18 year old who was working towards a commercial pilot rating, and instructor Jaspal Barha, 45.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

So the student was most likely practicing his maneuvers in a 172 2k to 4k feet. The helo trainer is typically very small and I'm not sure their normal alt they practice at, but in my training I never saw one outside of the airport area even though there might be 10 to 15 flying.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

So it would appear from the statement that Lord Rothschild is ok I guess. Though it must have been very close to the estate because their gardener also said:

Yes, Lord Jacob Rothschild is just fine.

For those who don't know, you can check the Wikipedia biography of Jacob Rothschild. Wikipedia's really good about updating when someone's died. Sometimes they will publish the news shortly after one news outlet has made the announcement (and lead many other news sources.)

And "MyNewsWire" is a site where you can pay money and they will present as "news" any darn thing you like. Strike that one off your list of reputable sources, eh? (Daily Mail is also somewhat questionable. Generally you should find a second source for stories reported there.)

a reply to: Xtrozero

Apparently the helicopter was on a sightseeing flight. The pilot might have been pointing things out and didn't see the plane.