Al Franken......WHOOPS....Next to go....

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
Big deal?

So you would be OK if this had happened to your daughter? Or mother?

FOH

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: visitedbythem

If Trump did that, what would your statement be?
I notice the [people on the right are more honest. Those on the left seem to have some serious morality problems. The left uses the "Ends justify the means" method. That says a lot about them.

I would say the exact same thing.

Not me!
I would say remove Trump from office for a stunt like that. These people are on the job and so is he

Franken wasn't in office at the time.

a reply to: theantediluvian


The fact that Gloria Allred is involved in so many of these cases in troubling in and of itself, IMO.

If these types of cases were being used as political hit jobs, this is exactly what you'd expect to see. It is also odd how these all follow the same pattern: one person comes forward at a very inconvenient time and many follow.

I think this instance is different because there is actual photographic evidence. However, I will reserve judgment until the person who took the photograph comes forward. They should be able to dispel any and all rumors, or confirm it was sexual battery.

Either way, with cases like this (with photographic evidence and uninterested witness testimony) it is important to throw the book at them to set an example for others. Most cases are flimsy, relying on decades old accusations conveniently timed for release during critical moments in campaigns (for example).

In any case, we shall see how this turns out. There were other people present, and only they can provide objective third party testimony.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: visitedbythem

Im an Independent, but I was wondering,. can Trump kid like that too? That girl is on the job. She could get in a lot of trouble for allowing him to sexually fondle her while she is working.

He's not sexually fondling anyone.

The left lost me after their victory dance over slaughter of children in the womb. That is the lowest form of intelligence on the planet. something that kills its offspring, then justifies the murder as a good thing for all. Again,. the ends justify the means. If you don't respect a child, why would you care about anyone else?

I notice the [people on the right are more honest. Those on the left seem to have some serious morality problems. The left uses the "Ends justify the means" method. That says a lot about them.

That's such BS.

I actually started out on the Right in my first forums.

The Right is far more Vitriol. Always on the attack.

The Left tends to think more, looking at a bigger picture.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It looks like he was kidding around, to me.

Of course you are right, but that accurate observation does not serve the partisan deflection being enjoyed here.

“The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine—is: I'm sorry.

“I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.

....

“For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

There is an obvious difference between a picture taken as a joke vs. trying to rape a 14 year old girl behind a Diner.

There is also an obvious difference between people taking accountability for their actions and people excusing and denying their actions.

Franken deserves the heat he will get for this and apparently is facing the consequences honestly.

“Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.

a reply to: Zeta Reticuli

Big deal?

So you would be OK if this had happened to your daughter? Or mother?

FOH

The women in my family know how to handle themselves. What they wouldn't do is bring it up a decade later in order to defame someone.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope


So that makes it OK?

There is photographic evidence to prove her claims. She says it wasn't consensual.

There were certainly other witnesses present who can confirm whether it was a "gag" or whether or not it was sexual battery.

If it is the former, no harm done - provided she was a consensual participant in the "gag." In case of the latter, I believe criminal charges would be justified for sexual battery. At a bare minimum, it is misdemeanor battery IMO.

We should wait to find out more info from other witnesses in the name of objectivity - although it is clear the "other side" never gives that courtesy. Objectivity is the most important thing we can maintain though, in any situation. Even when it hurts our opponents, we shouldn't lose our critical thinking and objectivity.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Well there wasn't much else he could do given the photographic evidence.

Incorrect.

He could deny, deny, deny just like Moore and the yearbook.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What they wouldn't do is bring it up a decade later in order to defame someone.

So you agree that is what Trump's accusers did, then? And that their statements should hold no water unless convincing evidence is produced?

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Doesn't matter, she couldn't consent to his sexual touching.

He’s not even touching her. It’s a gag.

Gag or not is completely irrelevant.

The hyperventilating left is the very reason something of this nature gets any play in the media. The irony being the hyperventilating left loves to distort anything right related yet attempts to passively ignore the same infractions when it happens to them.

The hyperventilating left are the single largest group of hypocrites in history.

"same infractions".....so.....if ANY man and/or woman have physical contact during a comedy skit, you would call that sexual assault?.....I've seen a lot of funny and sometimes gross kissing scenes in comedy skits, as well as in movies. in fact, down through the decades most of the "Saturday Night live" stars could be brought up on charges, if that is how you want to play it.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What they wouldn't do is bring it up a decade later in order to defame someone.

So you agree that is what Trump's accusers did, then? And that their statements should hold no water unless convincing evidence is produced?

Al Franken's accuser is speaking live now. At least she looks good, compared to Roy Moore's gold-digger.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Doesn't matter, she couldn't consent to his sexual touching.

Not to go all photo-analysis, but the shadows beneath his hands and fingers obviously show that he was not actually groping her, but rather posing as if he was for failed comedic purposes.

a reply to: jimmyx


Does anyone know what the photographer is saying about this?

I believe his statement is likely the most important part of this.

a reply to: soberbacchus


So that is OK, but being recorded in secret making comments isn't?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It looks like he was kidding around, to me.

I actually agree.
It was likely a joke photo.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: LesMisanthrope


So that makes it OK?

There is photographic evidence to prove her claims. She says it wasn't consensual.

There were certainly other witnesses present who can confirm whether it was a "gag" or whether or not it was sexual battery.

If it is the former, no harm done - provided she was a consensual participant in the "gag." In case of the latter, I believe criminal charges would be justified for sexual battery. At a bare minimum, it is misdemeanor battery IMO.

We should wait to find out more info from other witnesses in the name of objectivity - although it is clear the "other side" never gives that courtesy. Objectivity is the most important thing we can maintain though, in any situation. Even when it hurts our opponents, we shouldn't lose our critical thinking and objectivity.

I think you guys need to get out more. I won't debate morality with a bunch of humourless puritans.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: jimmyx


Does anyone know what the photographer is saying about this?

I believe his statement is likely the most important part of this.

What did he say?
Please share because I didn't see that yet.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It looks like he was kidding around, to me.

Well the woman in the picture says in the Hill article linked in the OP that he forced his tongue down her throat.

Big deal.

Yes, it is a big deal if you are a person who has been screaming about how actions like that are sexual assualt and must be taken seriously.

I am confused. Are you equating a gag photo taken in poor taste to attempting to rape a 14 year old girl in your car (Roy Moore)?

Or drugging women and then raping them like Cosby? Or Weinstein forcing himself on dozens of women?

Just to be clear, it is all the same thing to you? If so that is a little frightening. Raping women is not jest.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: LesMisanthrope


So that makes it OK?

There is photographic evidence to prove her claims. She says it wasn't consensual.

There were certainly other witnesses present who can confirm whether it was a "gag" or whether or not it was sexual battery.

If it is the former, no harm done - provided she was a consensual participant in the "gag." In case of the latter, I believe criminal charges would be justified for sexual battery. At a bare minimum, it is misdemeanor battery IMO.

We should wait to find out more info from other witnesses in the name of objectivity - although it is clear the "other side" never gives that courtesy. Objectivity is the most important thing we can maintain though, in any situation. Even when it hurts our opponents, we shouldn't lose our critical thinking and objectivity.

I think you guys need to get out more. I won't debate morality with a bunch of humourless puritans.

I'm a puritan with humor.
But I'm not really into a debate right now.
Kinda pressed for time today.

Even worse, Franken probably had a higher status of position than she did in this traveling show. He could almost be considered her superior with his fame and fortune at the time. This should definitely be considered sexual harassment if not full on rape under those circumstances. He took advantage of his position and that just adds to this horrendous crime.

It is time for a full blown list of which situations are acceptable compared to unacceptable. This needs to be spelled out down to the exact situation. 1000's of different situations need to be documented and labeled as to whether they are acceptable or not.

Time to start laying down the rules.