Al Franken......WHOOPS....Next to go....

a reply to: Vasa Croe



A female friend of mine once said God gave men 2 brains, but only enough blood to run one at a time. She was so right.

To those clinging to the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra:

Yes that is a key staple of our society. However, there are already cases where it doesn't apply. For example, cops effectively remove your personal freedom when they arrest you and put you in jail on suspicion of a crime. When criminals are shot in the act of committing violent crime, there was no trial to determine guilt. So the concept is not as absolute as you seem to think.

That being said, there's photographic evidence. We don't need a lawyer and a judge to help us interpret it. He's touching her chest without her consent. It's not open for debate. It's a fact. There's no allegation to prove. It's already proven.

originally posted by: apydomis

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It looks like he was kidding around, to me.

would it be all right for a person to get down between someone's legs, as long as they're not touching them – and make some kind of lewd gesture towards that person's genitalia? I mean as long as they're not touching them

Again..

Is it "all right"?
Is it "OK"?

Those are different questions than is it sexual battery, sexual assault, rape, pedophilia etc.

Discussing the real differences between this act and other acts might require actual thinking, but thinking is good.

It is not excusing the actions only discussing them in terms of simple reality, facts, evidence and logic.

a reply to: soberbacchus

I agree I think there is a spectrum, what Al Franken did does not compare to the illegal acts that Roy Moore did (which were pedophilia, by the way).

Al Franken could feasibly get away with apologizing, as long as his apology was accepted. It is true, he might face more repercussions, as what he did could be considered sexual assault. Roy Moore, well, I'm sure all of the conservatives on this site are against him because he is a pedophile. So I shouldn't have to say more.

Both should be held accountable, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the consequences are going to be different in each case.

As for being innocent until proven guilty, that happens in the court of law, but scandals like this have traditionally affected things in the non-legal realm like losing votes or being fired from a job.

I could see Roy Moore, the pedophile, being elected to the Senate and serving out his term while Al Franken gets kicked out or resigns. This would be the result of politics.

a reply to: darkbake

Here's the problem I have with this whole narrative:

Al Franken was accused of sexual assault by a performer. Roy Moore was accused of sexual assault by a then-minor. If one assumes both accusations are true, then obviously Moore is much more of a predator than Franken,because of the age of the victims.

But that requires that both accusations be assumed true.

I try to go deeper. Is Franken guilty of assaulting her? According to his own testimony in the public eye, quite probably. He is guilty of sexual misconduct in any case, by his own admission. There is no question about that. His apology included that admission of guilt.

Is Moore guilty of assaulting his accusers? So far, he has maintained his innocence. The only evidence against him is a signature in a yearbook that may well be a forgery; we don't know, because the accuser's attorney refuses to release it for examination. Even if it is not a forgery, it is not proof of anything other than he knew her in some capacity at that point in time. And this is not the 14-year old... there has been no evidence whatsoever to substantiate that charge.

So Franken is at least guilty of sexual misconduct; Moore may or may not be guilty. And yet the maybe guilty party is condemned to a much greater degree than the guilty party, because the guilty party admitted guilt.

Admission of guilt is now apparently a defense against being found guilty; Maintaining innocence is proof of guilt. What magic is this?

If Moore is proven guilty, that is a big problem because he also lied about it. But if Moore is not proven guilty, then how is not apologizing for something that never happened a problem? It's not. but the immediate assumption by many posting on these issues is that the accuser must be assumed truthful. Nothing in our justice system accepts such a notion; indeed, the whole idea of the American justice system is the opposite. An accuser must present some evidence... details that can be verified, like the accused was there, the accused was wearing certain clothes that he/she actually owns, the accused has birthmarks or tattoos that are not normally visible but the accuser knows about... something!

Now, I will admit that my initial thought when I heard the story about Franken was a hope that he was guilty. Why? Because I wanted to see those who I believe have tried to railroad Moore caught in their own web. But despite that, I still would not have supported removing him from the Senate over simply an accusation. Accusations are not proof, no matter how credible those doing the accusing sound.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck

Now, I will admit that my initial thought when I heard the story about Franken was a hope that he was guilty. Why? Because I wanted to see those who I believe have tried to railroad Moore caught in their own web. But despite that, I still would not have supported removing him from the Senate over simply an accusation. Accusations are not proof, no matter how credible those doing the accusing sound.

TheRedneck

Well for Franken I'm not sure you can say his picture is any kind of assault, poor taste, but assault though Kevlar and a plate kind of hard to say. The key thing with that situation is he made advances on her that made her completely uncomfortable, plus slipping his tongue in her mouth that not only shocked her but grossed her out.

This goes down a path that you didn't talk about..Sexual advances due to positional power. This will get you fired, kicked out of the military etc... the kind of stuff that Clinton, Weinstein and others used to get laid. With Franken he was a big time Saturday Night Live A lister that put a woman in a position of helplessness, much like what Weinstein created with his actions.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I mentioned that the photo is more about sexual misconduct... the tongue allegation, if true, I would consider abuse.

But yeah, you're right... there is no difference between Franken and Weinstein/Weiner, except I don't know if Weinstein has actually admitted guilt yet...

TheRedneck

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Where does he talk about drugging and raping Stahl? This sounds like one of your fantasies, not his.

variety.com...

“The article quotes Franken putting an edgy twist on the discussion, saying in a Rooney voice: “And ‘I give the pills to Lesley Stahl. Then when Lesley’s passed out, I take her to the closet and rape her.’ Or ‘That’s why you never see Lesley until February.’ Or, ‘When she passes out I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.””

Your hero Frankenstein is a weirdo.

He also wrote a column for Playboy in which he talks about screwing machines in some mythical visit to a sex clinic. I think a mental institution would be more useful to him.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: soberbacchus

I could see Roy Moore, the pedophile, being elected to the Senate and serving out his term while Al Franken gets kicked out or resigns. This would be the result of politics.

While I take no issue with the rest of your post, I think you're off-base here. The Senate, both sides of the isle, has pretty much unanimously rejected Moore. If he does get elected he's gonna get expelled.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: soberbacchus

I could see Roy Moore, the pedophile, being elected to the Senate and serving out his term while Al Franken gets kicked out or resigns. This would be the result of politics.

While I take no issue with the rest of your post, I think you're off-base here. The Senate, both sides of the isle, has pretty much unanimously rejected Moore. If he does get elected he's gonna get expelled.

Not sure he will get expelled. They need his votes.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: soberbacchus

I could see Roy Moore, the pedophile, being elected to the Senate and serving out his term while Al Franken gets kicked out or resigns. This would be the result of politics.

While I take no issue with the rest of your post, I think you're off-base here. The Senate, both sides of the isle, has pretty much unanimously rejected Moore. If he does get elected he's gonna get expelled.

Not sure he will get expelled. They need his votes.

That won't have any impact on the votes. If they expel him the governor appoints an interim Senator, who will likely be another Republican. I think this is why they're not trying to mount a write-in campaign for another candidate at this point. That will pretty much guarantee Doug Jones wins. At this point they're hoping Moore hangs on to win and then they'll just replace him.

a reply to: soberbacchus

You are just too angry and jumping to too many conclusions. Who said anything about rape? I'm outta this thread.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Now another accuser steps forward. The hypocrisy of the left is deafening. All's quiet from virtue hill. Time for this hypocrite to resign immediately.

apnews.com...

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Now another accuser steps forward. The hypocrisy of the left is deafening. All's quiet from virtue hill. Time for this hypocrite to resign immediately.

apnews.com...

The last sentence of this article says that CNN sat on the story for several days.

I WONDER WHY?

a reply to: carewemust

Franken canceled a sold-out book festival appearance scheduled for Monday in Atlanta to speak and promote his book, “Al Franken, Giant of the Senate.” He hasn’t appeared in public since Tweeden’s allegation.

Frankenberry is finished. This is just the beginning of the Swamp flush that will hit both parties.

Looks like he groped Arianna Huffington, too.

“Franken was clowning around, but it really isn’t funny,” said a source from the shoot. “That’s his tactic, pretend like it’s all a big joke. Arianna was pushing his hands away. He was groping her. There was some fun attached to it, but she wasn’t enjoying it. She definitely told him to stop and pushed him away.”

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: carewemust

Franken canceled a sold-out book festival appearance scheduled for Monday in Atlanta to speak and promote his book, “Al Franken, Giant of the Senate.” He hasn’t appeared in public since Tweeden’s allegation.

Frankenberry is finished. This is just the beginning of the Swamp flush that will hit both parties.

The flush will begin with the Groper In Chief.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: carewemust

Franken canceled a sold-out book festival appearance scheduled for Monday in Atlanta to speak and promote his book, “Al Franken, Giant of the Senate.” He hasn’t appeared in public since Tweeden’s allegation.

Frankenberry is finished. This is just the beginning of the Swamp flush that will hit both parties.

The flush will begin with the Groper In Chief.

You guys tried that during the campaign. Good luck with 2.0. It's gonna be a long 3 years for you guys.

a reply to: face23785

If Moore is not seated, there will be Hell to pay.

TheRedneck