Al Franken......WHOOPS....Next to go....

a reply to: pavil

my God how many times do I have to say it. It's the Rehearsal, Tonguing and Frakken's behavior after that that is really troublesome.

....and you still haven't commented on that despite numerous requests by me and others.

Do you believe her statements about the rehearsal and tongue the rest of her description?

The picture isn't the biggest issue in this. It's circumstantial to the other behaviors.

She accused him of groping her, citing the picture as evidence, yet the picture shows no such thing. Yes, I'm not going to believe an accusation when 50% of their accusations are proven false. And you are?

a reply to: soberbacchus

So intentionally touching a sleeping women's breasts is no big deal.

CHECK.

a reply to: romilo

I'm coming to the conclusion that what it means is that we are more animalistic as a society than we'd like to admit.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Did al deny groping her?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: soberbacchus

A regular employee would be fired in a heartbeat if a picture like this was revealed. A sitting US senator should be held to higher standards.

A regular employee of what?

He was a comedian, not Senator at the time.

We have an entire generation growing up on film now with the past 10 years everyone having a high quality camera stuck to their hands and posting pics every other second.

Just saying, we should lay the ground-rules now for what constitutes a "firable" pic in this world where everyone coming up has their existence documented in pics on the internet.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Grambler

I can not tell if he is touching them or not in that picture.

regardless, you keep making it seem as if this is all about the picture, which I agree with you was a joke most likely.

The fact that you dont believe her is irrelevant.

The point is, you continue to act as if this is all just people being upset at a bad joke, and there are more to the accusations than that.

Even assuming he did stick his tongue down her throat, she said no, don't do that again, and he didn't do it again. Human interaction has a little more nuance than some of us might think.

I guess the issue really is about abuse of power.


...

Abuse of power is a real thing, it needs to be taken into account because if not then we pave the way for these creeps.

First and foremost, let me say I agree that "abuse of power" is a significant issue in our society when it comes to sex.

I also have been thinking what the reactionary consequences to society might be if their is over-reach in political correctness around abuse of power?

There are in fact places in the world where dating and marriage are restricted to people in your own social status, position, wealth etc.

I think "abuse of power" occurs when their is consequence or threat of consequence surrounding a sexual advance.

Defining romantic advances as "abuse of power" by simply comparing status or position seems to be where that slippery slope to strict social stratification begins.

Perhaps, like taxi meters, a person's boss or social "higher up" should have a badge that states "all interactions are off the clock".

It's impractical to believe social interaction will be constrained to social settings and that a person with power can be relied upon to ignore any snubs and get revenge for how you reject them.

Thus why the holding to a higher standard must be enforced for those in those positions I think.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: intrepid

Is there anyone that thinks the photo is actually humorous?

Kids maybe. I don't. But I also don't think he's touching her either.

You can plainly see his fingertip flattened against her:

So one in ten fingertips might have made contact through a FLACK VEST.

Al Frankin is really, really bad at groping.

Again, it is inappropriate and he deserves to get "flack" for it, but pretending this picture shows something it doesn't does not inform the debate IMO.

How many fingers are people allowed to put on clothed women's breasts while they grope them when they are sleeping?

a reply to: Dfairlite

Did al deny groping her?

You tell me.

OK. After 18 pages we can conclude that those that are liberal and those that don't give damn are "M'eh." Conservatives are "He did something wrong" to "Fry his abusive ass." Predictable really.

a reply to: soberbacchus

it's a FLAK vest. Just so you know. but he should receive flack.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I really don't know or care. I was just curious if you were being consistent.

originally posted by: intrepid
OK. After 18 pages we can conclude that those that are liberal and those that don't give damn are "M'eh." Conservatives are "He did something wrong" to "Fry his abusive ass." Predictable really.

Right. No surprise there. Thankfully Republicans are in charge of the house the Senate and the White House.

a reply to: Dfairlite

I really don't know or care. I was just curious if you were being consistent.

Consistent with what?

originally posted by: intrepid
OK. After 18 pages we can conclude that those that are liberal and those that don't give damn are "M'eh." Conservatives are "He did something wrong" to "Fry his abusive ass." Predictable really.

I am conservative and that wasnt my conclusion.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: intrepid

Is there anyone that thinks the photo is actually humorous?

Kids maybe. I don't. But I also don't think he's touching her either.

You can plainly see his fingertip flattened against her:

So one in ten fingertips might have made contact through a FLACK VEST.

Al Frankin is really, really bad at groping.

Again, it is inappropriate and he deserves to get "flack" for it, but pretending this picture shows something it doesn't does not inform the debate IMO.

So if there were no picture at all, you would not believe any of her story? I'm not a huge feminist but c'mon on now, what does she gain by this?

Will you believe her side of it if someone coraborates it?

I'm tired of creepy sexual behavior by people in positions of power whoever they are.

We will lose almost all of our elected officials if they all have their behaviors exposed.

Can't happen soon enough in my book.

a reply to: Grambler

Me too, and not my conclusion either.

My only call for his resignation was really a shot at mitch mcconnell.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: intrepid

Is there anyone that thinks the photo is actually humorous?

Kids maybe. I don't. But I also don't think he's touching her either.

You can plainly see his fingertip flattened against her:

He just had to touch very lightly so as not to awaken her and give her a chance to say, "Get the F- away from me!"

Then those must be magic shadows beneath his finger-tips?

Can't believe we are going full Zapbruder footage on the grope pic.

That's the evidence she has offered. Should it not even be considered?

We are considering it. Right now?

Do we dismiss it entirely because it looks like maybe most of his fingers aren't touching her?

No one is dismissing it. We are discussing and examining it?

To be clear: I think the picture was a gag photo that Franken mistakenly thought was funny. I think the woman has a right to upset and Franken should be accountable for it. I do not think he actually groped her, through a flack vest no less.
The picture is unmistakably a pose for failed comedic value.

Learn from what? Poor sentance structure and a cartoon video? No thanks. A bit of hyperbole maybe, but MGTOW is real.
a reply to: jonnywhite

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well, he apologized to her which can be used as an admission of guilt in many states. So if he apologized for his behavior but didn't specify that he didn't grope her, legally he may have admitted to groping her.

Did he actually touch her in the picture has been brought up multiple times in this thread.
I don't know if he is actually touching her or not. I haven't looked closely at the photo.

But imagine this:
You are given a disc of photos. While going through them, you find something similar to the one with Al Franken, where it appears that someone is touching you or acting like they are touching you in a manner that you think is inappropriate. While you were asleep. You have no recollection of what transpired before, during or after the photo was actually taken.

And let's say prior to this, the same person kissed you in a manner that you were uncomfortable with.

Would you contemplate what that same person might have done while you were asleep that wasn't captured by a photo?

Just because the photo may not show actual contact doesn't mean that it may not have happened and I am not saying that it did. It may have been just a joke or an attempt at one as Al Franken implied.

I am not stating that Al Franken should resign or anything. I can see where this might be a "mock groping" intended to be funny.

But I can only imagine the stuff that has run through her head as she tried to process this.

How many attempts might he have made before they got that shot right?
Did he grab me somewhere else?
Are there more photos I don't know about?
Were other people doing the same?
Did they take turns posing?
Why didn't he tell me when I woke up or soon after?
Why didn't he show me the photo?
Did I get this particular photo by accident?
Did he intend to keep it and it mistakenly got sent to me?

The questions could go on and on.

I know that this is all hypothetical, but can you agree that she might have struggled with these thoughts?

Mental anguish and emotional distress can be very traumatic.