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Double standards on the left

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posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

Real progressives do to.


Damn straight we do!

However, folks like me have moved further and further away from the mainstream left in the past decade or so.

I suspect as that "mainstream left" spirals further and further off into.. wherever they're going, more will start to snap out of it.

Hopefully that's in big enough numbers to be meaningful. Currently, we are essentially treated as heretics unless its a Party (Orwellian style) approved topic. Most of which seem explicitly designed to keep people spinning their wheels and not actually progressing.

Enough time and effort is spent deflecting, making "righteous moral" appeals, framing issues in the most minimizing ways possible, and obsessing over the other team that there is no gas left in the tank to do what progressives are "supposed" to do.

Be wary though, I suspect the exact same techniques and methods have been turned on the "right," now that the "left" has essentially been neutralized in the important aspects and laser focused on oblivion.




posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Justoneman

You have to make a counter point to have made a point..

“Nah uh”

Is not a counterpoint..



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

Of course it hapens on the right.

I feel that when it comes to the big issues, the establishment right and left are the same group.

Thats why I supported Bernie and Trump; because it was obvious the establishment parties didnt like them.

Now maybe Trump and Bernie will prove to be more of the same; time will tell.

But Trumps election has shown just how corrupt the establishment on both sides is.

Although I disagree with real progressives like Jimmy dore on many policies, at least he and others care about the average voter, where its obvious the establishment does not.

But as you see on this thread, many democrats that pushed things like the russian collusion narrative have no problem with Hillarys team paying to get dirt from russia and lying about it, and even worse rigging the primary against Bernie.

It my hope that the people on the left and right that see through this charade can come together to end this farce, but we have a long way to go.



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

HILLARY DID NOT GET DIRTY FROM RUSSIA!!!

Fusion GPS IS NOT RUSSIA...

Where the hell are you getting Russia from at all?!?! ...



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

By the left, who do you mean, exactly?

If they have money and power, I think you can bet that they are not lefties, because by and large, those who genuinely hold leftist views deliberately avoid accruing either.


To say that Ds avoid money and power is like saying Rs shun religion.
They both seek power and both seek money. to say the democratic party by and large shuns money and power is a blatant untruth a.k.a. a lie. Or it is an assumption based on ignorance.

You cannot run a political platform in today's political spectrum as it is without both power and money.
Power in politics is the foundation that is built upon and paid for with money.

It should be based on moral principles but it is not. The bottom line is after all "money"



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Grambler

HILLARY DID NOT GET DIRTY FROM RUSSIA!!!

Fusion GPS IS NOT RUSSIA...

Where the hell are you getting Russia from at all?!?! ...



Going through a third party doesnt make getting dirt from russia any less impact.

Either its wrong to do or its ok (which I believe the latter).

You cant demand investigations and say its a big deal for one side, but then say its ok for the other side to do it and lie about it for a year, because they hired a law firm to do it.



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Well, my point was more that the new methods of social manipulation have been focused on the "right."

Up until the last couple years, it was pretty much just the old standard propaganda. Relatively effective, no doubt, but not particularly subtle. If the time frames remain similar, the true effects will not manifest for a couple more years.

More and more will see through it, but whether or not it is enough to matter remains to be seen.

Its all the fruition of philosophies like those proposed in MindWar, the real life, en masse application of decades of psyops research.

Probably best to think of it like a virus, where "patients" are no more likely to wish it away (so to speak) than a cold or the flu.

Its my opinion that they didn't really know what they were starting, but I'm not sure that's particularly relevant now that its all out in the wild.

A massive cultural shift might be enough of an innoculation, but the wrong type could make things even worse. I expect just such a shift is coming by way of technology, but we will see.

Until then, folks such as myself don't tend to be any more welcome with those on the right than we are with the left. There are exceptions, of course, but once we mention we are on the left, most on the right go into a certain mode. And once those on the mainstream left see us move away from the narrative, the same thing happens. Kind of interesting, really.
edit on 16-11-2017 by Serdgiam because: Freakin' autocorrect!



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Fair enough , the establishment just talks a good game, but where the democrats acknowledge an issue, then just don’t do much about it..

The gop denies there is an issue at all and gets paid off by those profiting from that issue being ignored..



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

No the establishment on both sides lie to their base.

Obama was a man of peace that was going to end wall street corruption. How did that go?

The republicans were going to before the borders, end obamacare, and stop spending so much money. More lies.

These two groups always seem to agree on the issues that matter, such as war in Libya or syria, bailing out banks, or allowing illegal immigration.

And then when someone from the right or left threatens to challenge this system like Bernie or trump or gabbard Or Ron paul, they unite to attack them.

As they tried to do with trump and are still trying, and successfully did with Bernie.



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Where are you getting this “from Russia” stuff at all???

Fusion gps said they used British intelligence assets to get the info..


The brits are always spying on the Russians, and one of the British agents leaked the trump stuff, is what Steele is claiming last I heard...


So where is this fictional “hillary Clinton worked with the Russians???”

Oh, trump said “I know you are but what am I “ to Russian collusion and his cult has been scrambling to fill in the blanks since...


I mean Jesus Christ man...

We have an email from his son literally spelling out the collusion theory..

The same collusion theory they lied about and called fake news for a year...

We don’t have a confession from hillary.. there is no investigation into hillary...



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Grambler

I’m still reading, but I TOTALLY disagree about it only/mainly it is the internet trolls pushing the rights garbage...

From my experience the rightwing shills almost exclusively point to people who are not even connected to the DNC as proof that all democrats/liberals are cartoon characters..


Antifa/BLM/the black panthars/idiot kids on college campuses/Muslim terrorists, exc..

None of those groups support the DNC..



This is another perfect example of what the op is talking about.

You are offended to be grouped with Antifa/BLM etc., yet the right is constantly referred to as white supremacist, or dumb rednecks.

People on the right are called racists with zero basis 20 times as often as the left is associated with a fringe group.

The op is completely right many on the left are so completely convinced of their superiority they will not even consider they could be wrong even when the facts overwhelmingly point to it.
edit on 16-11-2017 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

You can spin it all you want.

Either getting dirt from foreigners like russia on your opponent is wrong or it isn't,

Paying a third party to do it for you doesn't magically make it ok.

And as for lying, the end and Hillary's team lies for a year about fiancinicng the dossier.

The fact that you think it's ok for the dems to get dirt on trump from russia because they paid a firm to do it is exactly what I am calling out in the o.o.

Oh and eta.

Perhaps you missed Steele himself admits in the dossier that his sources were Kremlin agents.

Funny you are so opinionated on the subject and haven't even read the dossier.
edit on 16-11-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 10:10 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: JoshuaCox

You can spin it all you want.




You can call it spin all you want.

Seriously, do these posts really keep Trump's base motivated? Seems like a lot of work.



posted on Nov, 16 2017 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: Dudemo5

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: JoshuaCox

You can spin it all you want.




You can call it spin all you want.

Seriously, do these posts really keep Trump's base motivated? Seems like a lot of work.


Not at all. Pointing out this hypocrisy is easy.

Real liberals know this too, and that's why they are angry at the dnc for doing the very things they accused trump of doing.

But you guys keep being hypocrites and defending your establishment team, it makes it easy to see who the real shills are.
edit on 16-11-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2017 @ 12:59 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Dudemo5

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: JoshuaCox

You can spin it all you want.




You can call it spin all you want.

Seriously, do these posts really keep Trump's base motivated? Seems like a lot of work.


Not at all. Pointing out this hypocrisy is easy.

First of all, as far as I'm concerned, you can take all the Democratic politicians and launch them into space, right along with the Republican ones.

Second of all, I didn't mean to suggest this particular thread was hard work. Obviously it took a minimum of time and energy to come up with the inane OP. But continually, day after day, trying to keep the Trump base motivated when their world is falling apart... I mean, the mental gymastics required to keep them all focused on the bogeyman of "those evil leftists."

Maybe it's not a lot of work for you. Maybe it just comes naturally. It's pretty lame though. It smells like used car salesmanship.

So you go ahead and keep telling me how your preferred party's crap stinks less than the other. The only people buying it are the people who believed it before they opened the thread...

Which I suppose is the point.

Gotta keep the rubes motivated.




edit on 17-11-2017 by Dudemo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2017 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

The left / narrative is you being played. See past the game. Its an illusion to keep your brain occupied.



posted on Nov, 17 2017 @ 02:08 AM
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a reply to: TrueBritfalse the clintons have ben accruing monies for decades they just hide it in their fake foundation like mark zuckerberg does to dodge taxes .


edit on 17-11-2017 by proteus33 because: spelling



posted on Nov, 17 2017 @ 03:39 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

By the left, who do you mean, exactly?

If they have money and power, I think you can bet that they are not lefties, because by and large, those who genuinely hold leftist views deliberately avoid accruing either.





Really?



posted on Nov, 17 2017 @ 04:22 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

Machiavelli would be drooling right now, or banging his head against a wall if he was still alive.

For those unfamiliar with Machiavelli, in my own words he introduced the idea that politicians should use whatever methods necessary-no matter how devious-to ensure the prosperity of the state, or in this case, the united states. The problem is Clinton and Trump have done devious acts for their own benefits, not for the benefit of the nation.

Watergate is a prime example.


edit on 17-11-2017 by Thecakeisalie because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2017 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: proteus33

And again, the Clintons are NOT lefties. They are corporatists, capitalists, of the worst sort too. You only have to look at their record to understand this. At every turn, they did what made them the most money. A lefty would call that selfish and unreasonable, inhuman, and wrong.

Greed is not a trait to be found amongst left wingers, because lefties, proper lefties, rarely give much of a stuff about themselves, when compared to how much they care about other people. If theres a way for a lefty to help someone who is suffering, they will do it. If a lefty finds themselves with an excess of cash, they do not spend it on sports cars, or expensive houses in the Hamptons. They spend it on feeding the poor, healing the sick, getting to grips with social problems. Maybe they donate to a local youth centre, maybe they start an apprenticeship program for disadvantaged youth, or an education program for kids with high IQs and parents with low wages, or a grant fund that sees similarly talented but disadvantaged children all the way from early education, all the way through college, to make sure that the nation they are living in is making the best use of its intellectual resources.

But they do not sit and hoard money, nor do they purchase power. The tendency to purchase power, to accrue enormous wealth, is not something that can be properly said to be a trait held by lefties. If you see someone doing that, you can largely ignore what they say about what they believe, because their ACTIONS prove their real alignment.

Dodging taxes, sitting on vast fortunes and keeping them to themselves largely speaking, living an opulent life, a lavish existence, these are not things which interest people with genuine left wing beliefs. Lefties also believe in protecting those who have been preyed upon by either the state, or other predatory groups and individuals. Its pretty clear to me, that Hillary Clinton, does not believe in that principle, because she took a job defending child rapists and other filth, from the just application of justice, bragging on tape that she had gotten some scumbag off on a technicality, laughing about it, despite the fact that her client destroyed a persons innocence in the most invasive and disgusting manner possible.

No lefty would take that kind of work, if it meant being forced to defend that sort of person, and they certainly would not brag about what a "good" job they had done of it either.

But she did those things. Ergo, she is not a lefty, regardless of what her public statements might have you believe. Her actions give her away as anything but a lefty, as does her bank balance, as does the lavish life she has lived since birth, without any significant effort to pay the advantages with which she was born forward.



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