3500 Year Old Greek Masterpiece found on a thumb sized Agate

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
It really makes you wonder what it would be like to live in that time. I have a feeling that if someone were to travel back in time to this period it would be rather bizarre to discover skills, arts and technologies that we never realized they might have.

That is what I was thinking. I think as more time passes, we will keep discovering amazing things that we thought were not possible back in those time periods.

The downward pointing quillions are the thing, unusual as far as finds, the in-use sword is a more traditional type wiht no quillions.



Source: I worked for an antique arms dealer and bladesmith, he had several bronze shortswords/daggers. Seems like theres enough detail on design between them in the agate, I think its worth a second look.

Cor Blimey. The detail on that small object is just amazing indeed, the Nat G link gives bigger images if you hover on the image ( will try to link below ). What a truly awesome piece of ancient miniature art.
The smithsonian link is wonderful thanks..

news.nationalgeographic.com...#/01-griffin-warrior-pylos.jpg

Found in this area of Greece.

www.google.co.uk...@36.9066378,21.7044479,14.74z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x136172c4b04bba2d:0x500bd2ce2ba47c0!8m2!3d36.9131173! 4d21.6966248

The grave is located at the southwest end of the Peloponnese peninsula at Pylos, a place mentioned by Homer in the Odyssey as the site of King Nestor’s palace with its “lofty halls.” Excavations before and after World War II revealed remnants of a large Mycenaean palace dating to about 1300 B.C., as well as hundreds of clay tablets written in the Linear B script developed on Crete, an island about 100 miles offshore. Those texts led to the translation of Linear B, and confirmed the identity of Pylos.

news.nationalgeographic.com...
( Some good images on here check no 5/7 the bulls carved on similar material )

a reply to: soberbacchus

Whatever is in the photos looks great; it's a beautiful piece of design

I'm cautious because the object isn't pictured with a measure or any way to judge dimensions. It's standard to show objects next to something else that gives it scale and I haven't found a side-by-side example...yet. It could be an oversight of the U of Cincinnati and everyone's run with the contextless image.

On the other hand, NatGeo and Smithsonian are running articles which lends a lot of credence to the reports and supports the claim that this thing is small and detailed.

If it's 100% genuine, it's another confirmation that many of the best artists die without leaving their name behind.

What do you say? Would you prefer to have your best work survive the ages in anonymity or have your name survive and none of your works?

Fascinating.
Maybe just me but the warrior on the right looks like he has a face/head similar to something from a 'terminator' movie. Doesn't look human looks more mechanical. And his shield looks kind of weird as well.

Obviously Zeus shrunk the artist down to make it.

Duh.

a reply to: rickymouse

Sure sounds like FUN ,to me, but I won't jump amy more hoops to learn anything AGAIN.
I noticed the SWORD reduced to a point instead of a constant width to the tip,as I remember all the swords were,from that era.
I wonder what army?

Awesome kill technique depicted also. The winner is taller and uses the terrain for even more height advantage, reaches over and uses the silly helmet decoration to his advantage forcing his opponents head to turn exposing the side of his neck. The killing blow is above the shield straight down through the shoulder/exposed bent neck.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Agate is pretty damn hard too.. what tool to cut agate??

I'm confused.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: soberbacchus


It could be an oversight of the U of Cincinnati and everyone's run with the contextless image.

Could be oversight and I would assume the same as they were specific enough to say it was 1.4 inches wide.

On the other hand, NatGeo and Smithsonian are running articles which lends a lot of credence to the reports and supports the claim that this thing is small and detailed.

Agreed.

If it's 100% genuine, it's another confirmation that many of the best artists die without leaving their name behind.

What do you say? Would you prefer to have your best work survive the ages in anonymity or have your name survive and none of your works?

Not sure if you came up with that question, but it is a great one!

I suppose it's possible for great artists that there art is their life and who they are whilst their signature is just letters.

a reply to: Night Star

Your post made me think of the Antikythera mechanism, arguably the first computer.

I can't believe I'm the first one...


How long before we see the Ancient Aliens episode that examines this in detail?

-dex

ive always wondered if what we consider amazing hand crafted work by a master in ancient times was something much more common then we think back then. when u werent working to survive there wasnt a whole lot to do. if u wanted something u pretty much had to make it so i have a feeling that each person was rather skilled at hand crafts. i have a feeling if we pit these people from ages past against our masters of today they would make us look like amatuers

a reply to: TheScale

ve always wondered if what we consider amazing hand crafted work by a master in ancient times was something much more common then we think back then.

It most likely was.

In ever sense of the word artists.

Contrast that today for what passes for 'art'.

a reply to: cavtrooper7
The scene is fascinating, I believe it depicts a Mycenaen warrior in combat with Minoans.

The helmet and the sword of the fallen indicate that the foes are minoan.
What is interesting is the almost celtic manner of dress of the foes, with the cloak and tartaned kilt, while the victor is classically represented naked with flowing locks of hair.
Could the enemy be Etocretan mercenaries?
The Tuscans played the same role, subservient client state, to the Minoans as did the Mycenaens.
When the Minoan control finally collapsed the Mycenaens took over, but there is evidence that the relationship between the Tuscans and the Minoans was on better terms than with the Mycenaens, Tuscan and Agean culture and language co existed,in the eastern agean, even after the mycenaen collapse of the 13th cent.

I beleive the sword is in fact the blade of the defeated and that the seal image is a representation of actual combat.

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
It really makes you wonder what it would be like to live in that time. I have a feeling that if someone were to travel back in time to this period it would be rather bizarre to discover skills, arts and technologies that we never realized they might have.

Better be a bad-ass too, lol.

a reply to: punkinworks10

MINOANS again...were they in fact Atlaniteans?

a reply to: Aliensun

Absolutely stunning piece of craftsmanship!

Possibly some kind of Obsidian or even Diamond cutting or etching tool could have been used?

The question begs though, what did they use to make such a tool?

originally posted by: bigyin
Fascinating.
Maybe just me but the warrior on the right looks like he has a face/head similar to something from a 'terminator' movie. Doesn't look human looks more mechanical. And his shield looks kind of weird as well.

Yes, I saw a skull in one of the close ups of the first pic, of that dude, from soberbacchus's post.

Zombie like face and skull helmet.

Cool stuff. It DOES seem like everyone was an artist, stonemason and/or engineer back then.

a reply to: Kandinsky


close to the size of a thumb... 1 1/2" long by 1" wide


I note the 'relief' that shows as rounded bodies & how the light dances realistically from contoured bodies of the fighters
(i.e.: the surface is not flat like the etching surface found on a work of Scrimshaw on ivory tusk)


in my younger years...when my eyes were keen...I would have been able to produce an intricate carving like in the OP, its a matter of One's focus becoming so concentrated that the filaments of a fly's wing became as glaring & as big as spider webs
~the obvious problem would be the diamond stylus used to make lines and to remove agate/stone to fashion a bas-relief sculpture~


the object could be set on a ring or might be used as an ornamental object mounted on a toga or lapel or even, perhaps a symbol of membership in an occult club/sect