It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche and the rise of atheism while Christianity's popularity continues to wane

page: 1
9
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 02:35 AM
link   
There is a reason why Christianity is not as popular as it was 500 years ago. During the last 200 years there has been an industrial and spiritual revolution all around the World. And one of the most important philosophers and writers during that period is Friedrich Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche is a key philosopher in understanding the World zeitgeist and how the value system of the masses has change.

Below is a very good 12 minute video introduction into the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. It's not the Friedrich Nietzsche was actually an atheist per se but he certainly provides an intellectual context for being an atheist.

The video gets what being an atheist means a little off. Being an atheist simply means not having a belief in God. Being an atheist does not mean denying the existence of God although practically every theists who cares about what atheists think would claim. For most atheists, what it means to be an atheist, is simply not having a belief in God because there is no easily agreeable evidence supporting such a belief.

The video however does a really good job giving you insight into Friedrich Nietzsche brilliant criticism of the way the human mind works and the importance of programming our subjective experiences based on our moral values:



Friedrich Nietzsche had some acute criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to take what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, good sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they really wanted but were incapable of achieving while praising what they did not want was being virtuous. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." A Christian slave was too weak to have any personal voice and was only capable of bending a knee to whoever was in authority.

Nietzsche pointed out God is dead because compared to previous cultures, God is not the central part of modern life.

Popular Nietzsche Books


edit on 13-11-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 02:48 AM
link   
I don't have time to watch your video right now (I am falling asleep), but I think we would all be better off focusing on our personal relationship with God instead of a religion.

I am not a good follower and often don't work well with others so I think God should be the focus and not religion.

God and I don't need a middleman.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 03:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Metallicus

As long as you are in charge of managing your own spirituality you will probably be good. As they say in Eastern religions, "if you see the Buddha on the road kill him."

However, Friedrich Nietzsche has an amazing brilliant criticism of the way the human mind works and the importance of programming our subjective experiences based on our moral values. His way of thinking is what interests me more than his criticisms of Christianity. Every way of being, if you think this, it means that. The idea that your values program your subjective experiences is what I find interesting.

Christians who have strong faith will likely be able to endure Nietzsche's anti-Christianity rhetoric. I imagine in many ways Nietzsche ways of thinking would provide a true Christian a deeper more meaningful experience of their own Christian life. That's why I like his philosophy. I think it applies to many ways of thinking and being.


edit on 13-11-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 03:05 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

I will definitely give it a look tomorrow. I read 'Beyond Good and Evil' in high school so it has been awhile, but it was a great read. I appreciate your OP!




posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 03:49 AM
link   
Nietzsche was a very good philosopher.
Though there are many valid and reasoned criticisms of his theory, a simple search of those criticisms if people are interested are available
You make him sound very one dimensional

Its worth noting WW1and WW2 came shortly after his death, maybe his understanding of human nature would have been different

Yes christianity is a religion of pity and self sacrifice, many find that foolish, not christians
The alternative is survival f the fittest and the destruction of the weak

It's a better option?



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 04:37 AM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't think that survival of the fittest and destruction of the weak is an alternative, it's the status quo for life in general on this planet.
We have been in the fortunate position as humans to create some distance between us and this mechanism. In the same way that morals are a luxury that basic life does not facilitate.

IMO the only reason that religion played such a big role was that is was a big part of social life and people didn't know any better. Ofcoure the mere proposition of a deity is ridiculous, any god will tell you that. To quote the famous words of Sir Phill "Don't do as I do, just do as I say."



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 05:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Friedrich Nietzsche is a key philosopher in understanding the World zeitgeist and how the value system of the masses has change.

Below is a very good 12 minute video introduction into the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. It's not the Friedrich Nietzsche was actually an atheist per se but he certainly provides an intellectual context for being an atheist.

Can someone explain to me what's so intellectual about claiming that you created the world as Nietzsche did?

Instead of 'God did it', Nietzsche did it?

Laughable character, don't know where his ridiculous philosophies end and his "psychological illness", "mental breakdown", "manic-depressive illness with periodic psychosis" and "dementia" begins (quoting wikipedia).

But he certainly did have a big impact on humanity's thinking. Sigh, where did all the rational people go? Isn't there another Isaac Newton out there somewhere? I was born in the wrong century, I'd have such good conversations with Newton about the irrationality of mankind in general (or on average; barring exceptions).

Christendom (not Christianity) does seem to be on the decline though while true Christianity is described as the fastest growing religion by MSM (percentage-wise), still just a small percentage of the global population as per Jesus contrast between 'the few people on the narrow road' and 'the many on the broad road' at Matthew 7:13,14 :

Before anyone feels like pointing out that the video above is speaking only about the USA:
fastest growing religion jehovah: google search
edit on 13-11-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 05:57 AM
link   
As an Atheist who hates being labelled [I'll sum it up below], I have to say getting older and being slightly wiser, I have to come to agree that there are a great many people who can't be trusted to be nice or decent just by themselves. They need some guidance from somewhere.
It hurts my logical thinking that so many people have so little knowledge about a lot of things that they are happy to just trust in a sky daddy who looks after them; but they exist and they are a majority.
If it helps them stay on the straight and narrow, then yeah some religion can be a good thing.

However, knowing that religion is man made [otherwise there would be just one and we'd know for sure who these 'gods' are] they are not all peace loving. Islam for example is not a religion. It doesn't have love, peace and acceptance and inner wisdom for all as an end goal. It makes absolutely clear that anyone besides a muslim [or someone who is religious in some other ways] is basically non-human and can be treated as such. It is pedalling the idea that it should be a global belief at any costs etc...That's not a religion, so lets ignore islam here.

Furthermore, we are adhering to writings that are 2000 years old. Well they are actually older [Sumerian] but christians always love taking someones else's ideas and make them theirs [pagan festivals spring to mind].

The bible is a mix and match of various stories, reinterpreted by people 2000 years ago and then again during the middle ages.
I don't want to be a spoil sport but we have moved on a bit since then. Scientifically, ethically and in a lot of other ways.
I mean even reading stuff from the 1930s makes me sometimes weep, the way they describe women or how they dated etc. And that is less than 100 years ago. Yet people think something that is 2000+ years old is still relevant in it's entirety?
Wow.

I think the bible is an interesting try at writing down history mixed with some fiction and a lot of misinterpreted/mistranslated stuff in it for good measure. Something to browse but not to take at face value.
It contains good advice and really bad advice. But a book to live your life by in 2017 it ain't.

Only for those that have no other knowledge and refuse to get it. Those that never think further than what their eyes see.

I came to the conclusion [with a big sigh] that indeed most humans are so basic that religion is a necessary evil [pun intended] to keep them in line.

However don't bash those that can't believe this stuff. I am a scientist and I am spiritual but I am not religious and I don't believe in any actual gods. If there were higher beings around to teach us stuff back in Mesopotamia, then they weren't gods. They were merely living beings with advanced technological knowledge.

And if there was a being that really cares about us and knows what we are all thinking and which exists somewhere outside the realm of our reality and who created us...could that be a god?
Well to a puny human maybe, but as a scientist I know that there is only one force that is the basis of everything, including the existence of any being [godlike or not] and that is Nature.

Nature is the amazing basic formula on which everything that exists is based, in any reality, dimension or universe. If a godlike being did exist it would only be because of this formula. Therefore anything at all can only be another being, even if it is one that seems much more advanced than us.

Therefore this ominous 'god' can't exist [at least not as a god, as just another creature, yes]. And that's why I am just as I was when I was born; what you call an Atheist but which shouldn't have a name because it is a base state!

TL;DR: Religion is necessary to keep the masses in check, but don't bash Atheism because it doesn't exist, it is only the base state of everyone when they are born [even the pope] and not an added man made form of belief.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 06:04 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

He was misrepresented...by his sister.

She published The Will To Power after his death, a book he never intended to publish. It was written towards the end of his life when he was in the throes of mental illness.

He must have realised it was bad because he wrote his shopping list over the manuscript.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 06:46 AM
link   
Truth is making old religons obsolete...not science....truth is becoming popular and people feel good when liars are corrected....truthing feels better than living under lies.

If a doctrine wishes to be globally endorsed all it has to do is promote truth....tis simple.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 06:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: Jubei42
a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't think that survival of the fittest and destruction of the weak is an alternative, it's the status quo for life in general on this planet.
We have been in the fortunate position as humans to create some distance between us and this mechanism. In the same way that morals are a luxury that basic life does not facilitate.

IMO the only reason that religion played such a big role was that is was a big part of social life and people didn't know any better. Ofcoure the mere proposition of a deity is ridiculous, any god will tell you that. To quote the famous words of Sir Phill "Don't do as I do, just do as I say."


When Jesus taught love, He wasn't just teaching it to the poor.
It is how Western Civilisation occurred
500 years after Luthers reforms we live in societies that grew from the teachings of Jesus, compassion and love



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 07:10 AM
link   
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:3


Psalm 2 King James Version (KJV)

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 07:24 AM
link   
People these days just aren't into the idea they should live for something outside the world and not get mired in it. Everything about the world is geared toward getting you caught up in stuff and worrying about what other people are doing. Nietzsche spoke more to that, but even he understood its self-destructive potential.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 07:24 AM
link   
a reply to: Josephus

Especially do not be deceived by yourself.

Many people sell religion to people in order to make money. Many people sell something to people they already have.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 08:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman

Yes christianity is a religion of pity and self sacrifice, many find that foolish, not christians
The alternative is survival f the fittest and the destruction of the weak

It's a better option?


That's not the only choice though: I'm an atheist and I work with adults with learning disabilities - yes I thoroughly enjoy my job, but I do it because I believe a strong and good society looks after those that need help or support.
Survival of the fittest for me is a terrible way to exist and seems horribly similar to an eye for an eye leaving the whole world blind.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 08:22 AM
link   

During the last 200 years there has been an industrial and spiritual revolution all around the World.


Bull and SNIP.

Out of 7 some odd billion people on the planet.

Over 6 billion have religious views.

www.pewresearch.org...

Christian,muslim,hindu.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 08:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: one4all
Truth is making old religons obsolete...not science....truth is becoming popular and people feel good when liars are corrected....truthing feels better than living under lies.

If a doctrine wishes to be globally endorsed all it has to do is promote truth....tis simple.


agreed.

to be an atheist, one must first acknowledge God.
don't t be an atheist, be a realist.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 08:38 AM
link   
a reply to: whereislogic

The line between genius and madness can be thin. There's nothing wrong with Christianity, and I don't think it's played out it's part, but mankind shouldn't stagnate in the same place if it can move forward.

Not sure what he said about creating the world though, can't answer that. I think what's best about him is the talk of surpassing yourself. You don't have to believe everything he says either, you can take it or leave it as you choose, but there's something to be said for questioning the politically correct ideals that society imposes on us, and especially when we start imposing them on ourselves, which we all do. It's worth thinking about these days; maybe we're going through paradigm shift right now (though it'll probably take decades before we see the real results). There's a lot of depressing stuff going on, but at the moment I'm fairly hopeful that something good will come out of it.

Of course some sort of murderous nihilist can use Nietzsche to support his crimes, you can take "God is dead" super literally, etc. I guess that's the opposite extreme of being a slave to morality. Can't take these things too far in your actual life, or too seriously, we aren't Übermenschen yet, lol.

I bet Newton would laugh at him, and it's easy for us to remember back to back then when the world was finished. But there are still loose ends in the thinking Nietzsche pioneered, there's still work to be done, in fact.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 08:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: jokei

originally posted by: Raggedyman

Yes christianity is a religion of pity and self sacrifice, many find that foolish, not christians
The alternative is survival f the fittest and the destruction of the weak

It's a better option?


That's not the only choice though: I'm an atheist and I work with adults with learning disabilities - yes I thoroughly enjoy my job, but I do it because I believe a strong and good society looks after those that need help or support.
Survival of the fittest for me is a terrible way to exist and seems horribly similar to an eye for an eye leaving the whole world blind.


An eye for an eye was Old Testament justice.
You take an eye, justice meant that an eye was forfeit
Even today, the death sentence would make people think about the crimes they commit
Yes an eye for an eye doesn't work, hence why the Old Testament laws where superseded by love one another

Yes I believe a strong and good society looks after those who can't look after themselves
Those are Christ's teachings

My comment was about the seemingly two options at our disposal



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 09:05 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

Well I'm glad you're looking out for me but I'm not a 16th century dirt farmer buying indulgences from the pope. True followers of Christ do not sell the free gift they've received. They tell people about it so they can also receive the gift of eternal life.

Not everyone is motivated by filthy lucre.



new topics

top topics



 
9
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join