It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Can we solve societal problems on our own independent of government?

page: 2
7
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:08 PM
link   
The disaster which is the American healthcare system is a perfect example of how a totally free market (unregulated capitalism) is doomed to failure.

Likewise, the 'war on drugs' is a perfect example of how total government control is also doomed to failure.

Whats actually needed to create a truly healthy and thriving society, is an even balance of government regulation and free market capitalism.

But in this BS left wing, right wing, one way or the other society of ours, people are rarely prepared to settle for somewhere in the middle.

Even though somewhere in the middle is as a general rule always the commonsense obvious solution...



edit on 12-11-2017 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Except it's not a totally free market. Government is eyeballs deep in regulating it and has been for a long, long time.

A totally free market would have no government intervention at all.



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:15 PM
link   
a reply to: toysforadults

Could we start a new society/community, out in the forest?
How far could a little self-sufficient society get, with no governance?
Would we self-destruct?



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Except it's not a totally free market. Government is eyeballs deep in regulating it and has been for a long, long time.

A totally free market would have no government intervention at all.


Can you give an actual example of the government regulating your healthcare system?



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
The disaster which is the American healthcare system is a perfect example of how a totally free market (unregulated capitalism) is doomed to failure.

Likewise, the 'war on drugs' is a perfect example of how total government control is also doomed to failure.

Whats actually needed to create a truly healthy and thriving society, is an even balance of government regulation and free market capitalism.

But in this BS left wing, right wing, one way or the other society of ours, people are rarely prepared to settle for somewhere in the middle.

Even though somewhere in the middle is as a general rule always the commonsense obvious solution...




Very good post.

What is good for the citizens of the US may not be good for profits.



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: toysforadults

Could we start a new society/community, out in the forest?
How far could a little self-sufficient society get, with no governance?
Would we self-destruct?


You would find that a hierarchy would be formed very quickly, not because of pushy dictators, but because of natural leaders.



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 05:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Except it's not a totally free market. Government is eyeballs deep in regulating it and has been for a long, long time.

A totally free market would have no government intervention at all.


Can you give an actual example of the government regulating your healthcare system?


Obamacare

But if you must go prior to that, how about every state having its own insurance regulatory regime such that a policy I purchase for myself in one state cannot cross over into another state so that my insurance must be repurchased every time I move to a new state?

Or I could discuss FDA regs ...

Or I could talk about a bunch of other stuff like that.

A completely free market is just that. Don't call it free if there are rules governing it in any way that are set by government. The truth is there are *no* completely free markets in any aspect of the US economy.
edit on 12-11-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 06:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Can the Government solve societal problems?

Look where we are today in the 21st Century. Has any Government been able to solve societal problems?

I think you'll find the answer to be NO.


Therein lies half of our problems.




posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 06:04 PM
link   
The raw capitalism advocated by the proponents of the "free market" is unsustainable. There has to be some minimum of government control to verify that the element of competition is always maintained in the system. Otherwise the largest and most powerful entities will overwhelm the system and limit the choices of the consumer.

Though laissez-faire is often associated with this idea of complete exclusion of government influence from the free market, there are some fundamentals of the theory that are often overlooked.
Laissez-faire Fundamentals

Fundamentals
Being a system of thought, laissez-faire rests on the following axioms:
- The individual is the basic unit in society.
- The individual has a natural right to freedom.
- The physical order of nature is a harmonious and self-regulating system.
- Corporations are creatures of the State and therefore must be watched closely by the citizenry due to their propensity to disrupt the Smithian spontaneous order.

These axioms constitute the basic elements of laissez-faire thought, although another basic and often-disregarded element is that markets should be competitive, a rule that the early advocates of laissez-faire have always emphasized. To maximize freedom and allow markets to self-regulate, early advocates of laissez-faire proposed a Impôt unique, a tax on land rent to replace all taxes that damage welfare by penalizing production.


Even the inventors of the "free market" concept acknowledged the need for regulation by the body politic.

-dex



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 06:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: toysforadults

Could we start a new society/community, out in the forest?
How far could a little self-sufficient society get, with no governance?
Would we self-destruct?


Similar to the Old German Baptists, say in Ohio? To my knowledge, they are almost completely free from governmental influence. It appears they are doing very well and are still growing. No electricity even, well not very often. Horse and buggy.



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 07:01 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

What you describe is government regulation on insurance policies, not a regulation of the actual healthcare system.


edit on 12-11-2017 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 07:11 PM
link   
Agree



originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: SmilingROB

Yes. If the average Joe realizes that we were empowered by our founding fathers to create free market solutions to social issues outside of government then they would start seeing these DEMANDS as opportunity to create a solution rather than demand government provide the solution.


We absolutely must look for solutions outside of government, lest we risk increasing the size & influence of that behemoth.

The tax reform will be a major stimulus for this, as of today it is looking good in the House. Apparently has a good chance of making it to the Senate floor, and then POTUSs desk



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 07:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: ClovenSky

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: toysforadults

Could we start a new society/community, out in the forest?
How far could a little self-sufficient society get, with no governance?
Would we self-destruct?


Similar to the Old German Baptists, say in Ohio? To my knowledge, they are almost completely free from governmental influence. It appears they are doing very well and are still growing. No electricity even, well not very often. Horse and buggy.


Sure. Like the Mennonites.
Screw the government.



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 10:18 PM
link   
a reply to: toysforadults

THats fair.

The market place, supple and demand, is about selling goods and serves, right?

So how do we sell Non -racism. Its an idea. What product could change attitudes about skin color?

So how do we sell Non- mass shooting. Again Its an idea. What product could change attitudes about mass killing?

I do agree that some some of that some of the attitudes are fostered by the by the perception "Their taking what should be mine" by using the bigot congress man who lost his seat to the transsexual (cannot remember the name) as an example he had every advantage in life and still was a bigot(i am using the broadest definition).

One of things that all level of school are supposed to do is help the students find a reasonable ethical core values.

Just to be clear i am playing devil advocate, I am not trying to kill the thread or counter anyone's point of view.
My issue is social issues.



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 10:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: SmilingROB

What's to expand ?

Sanders the socialist lost.

Clinton the promiseer of free snip lost.



I am asking what you think Trump has or symbolised that Clinton and Sander didn't. I don't want this become one of the "bash this bash that thread"

I can see Clinton as symbolising big government. If it the' business man' aspects isn't sanders a multi millionaire too?



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 10:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ClovenSky

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: toysforadults

Could we start a new society/community, out in the forest?
How far could a little self-sufficient society get, with no governance?
Would we self-destruct?


Similar to the Old German Baptists, say in Ohio? To my knowledge, they are almost completely free from governmental influence. It appears they are doing very well and are still growing. No electricity even, well not very often. Horse and buggy.


Sure. Like the Mennonites.
Screw the government.


I think this groups thrive because they are isolated by from the really world because the rest of us respect their right to do so.

The thing that connects some social issues is a lack of Respect between One group and another. Most people respect the Amish and let them be.

Its great to see people with a background in Political science here.

So how do use the the (relatively) free market in enact social change. We have seen stores try to force social change by not providing services (ie the gay couple who was refused a wedding). For we sell t shirt that Say "I love the migrant who pick my tomatoes" or what


( ive been on here for years and just noticed can unline things.)


edit on 12-11-2017 by SmilingROB because: missing a space adde a sentence



posted on Nov, 12 2017 @ 11:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: SmilingROB

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ClovenSky

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: toysforadults

Could we start a new society/community, out in the forest?
How far could a little self-sufficient society get, with no governance?
Would we self-destruct?


Similar to the Old German Baptists, say in Ohio? To my knowledge, they are almost completely free from governmental influence. It appears they are doing very well and are still growing. No electricity even, well not very often. Horse and buggy.


Sure. Like the Mennonites.
Screw the government.


I think this groups thrive because they are isolated by from the really world because the rest of us respect their right to do so.

The thing that connects some social issues is a lack of Respect between One group and another. Most people respect the Amish and let them be.

Its great to see people with a background in Political science here.

So how do use the the (relatively) free market in enact social change. We have seen stores try to force social change by not providing services (ie the gay couple who was refused a wedding). For we sell t shirt that Say "I love the migrant who pick my tomatoes" or what
( ive been on here for years and just noticed can unline things.)


So maybe just respecting everyone is a good path, and we should stop always trying to "do something".
Nobody is ever satisfied with what the government does, or doesn't do, anyways.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 05:57 AM
link   
Is there not an argument that the whole concept of 'governments' evolved out of groups of people in society trying to establish a structure that would help them solve their social problems?

It seems to me that this is basically what governments are. Responses to social problems.



posted on Nov, 13 2017 @ 06:01 AM
link   
Has the Govt ever fixed anything?

seems like they just bury it under red tape and declare victory to me.

I think we could fix quite a bit without govt intervention if an actual honest dialogue could be had, and that is the problem admitting where your problems are.
edit on 13-11-2017 by Irishhaf because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1   >>

log in

join