Far left Teacher debates Right wing student... facts vs. emotions

a reply to: theantediluvian

Wow. I probably 'this or that' in your mind. Even though you havent a clue about me. You sound as crazy as the 'teacher.' make up stuff much. Seriously thats a pretty pathological approach to this.

So you got nothing on me so youre going to assume stuff about complete strangers because it incessantly floats around in your head and your distorted view of reality must be correct. Ok.

Also thanks for doing what the crazy teacher was doing and throwing in non sequiter stuff. The kid had a valid point when he was spouting facts. You unfortunately are reaching pretty hard to make any point at all.

This kid has a good head on his shoulder, but his stats aren't completely accurate here. So he is right, Cops do kill more whites than blacks. However, he claims he got his information from the FBI but the FBI doesn't have this data. Police are not required to report on how many people they kill so they usually don't. Recently though a journalist put together a database on police shootings by analyzing old news stories.

If we ignore the category "Race Unspecified" which is by far the largest group at 9256 people we get the following breakdown.

White - 45.17%
Black - 31.88%
Hispanic - 19.06%
Asian - 2.19%
Native American - 1.42%
Middle Eastern - 0.25%

So yes in raw numbers police kill more whites than blacks. However, when you factor in population sizes it looks a little different.

Population by Race

White - 73.9%
Black - 13.3%

So with that in mind, blacks are killed at a rate ~3 times more than than their population distribution would suggest.

Don't misunderstand me here, the teacher is also extremely out of line here as well with her whole white supremacist line. I mean, she doesn't even let the guy get a word in once she gets talking and she keeps using terms like "people like you" and she refers to herself as "a very smart woman" who believes that anything that hurts people of color is terrorism.

Also, I don't think this kid is Right Wing either. If you watch the video he even says that he is in the middle.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

It's called inferring. You've repeatedly expressed your belief that the kid was "spouting facts" that somehow dispel what you continue to claim as the teacher's "distorted view of reality."

From that, it can be reasonably inferred that you find the student's "arguments" both valid and compelling. No?

The irony here is that as you are applauding this kid's non sequitur as reasoned arguments, you're accusing me of non sequitur for a reasonably inference.

Do you not see that black people kill more black people than cops kill black people as an argument against concern over police violence is a specious non sequitur? What else did he say? That cops kill more white people than they kill black people? Another specious argument. The kid is simply repeating the same weak talking points that are part of the standard low info repertoire.

Also, you're hypocritically admonishing me for my assumptions as you yourself make one assumption after an another about the "distorted view of reality" of "complete strangers."

a reply to: theantediluvian

I was able to hear her just fine, and if I were a liberal sort it'd be so embarassed by that lady's behavior I'd either dodge the topic or jump in on the 'what a nutter that lady was' bandwagon.

Yet here you are playing goalie.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: BASSPLYR

It's called inferring. You've repeatedly expressed your belief that the kid was "spouting facts" that somehow dispel what you continue to claim as the teacher's "distorted view of reality."

From that, it can be reasonably inferred that you find the student's "arguments" both valid and compelling. No?

The irony here is that as you are applauding this kid's non sequitur as reasoned arguments, you're accusing me of non sequitur for a reasonably inference.

Do you not see that black people kill more black people than cops kill black people as an argument against concern over police violence is a specious non sequitur? What else did he say? That cops kill more white people than they kill black people? Another specious argument. The kid is simply repeating the same weak talking points that are part of the standard low info repertoire.

Also, you're hypocritically admonishing me for my assumptions as you yourself make one assumption after an another about the "distorted view of reality" of "complete strangers."

Are you always this condescending? (Checks posting history), oh right. 🤔
Believe it or not, other people's opinions are just as valid as your opinions. Because they are, wait for it, opinions. 😱

Here's my take away from the exchange:

1. The teacher is emotionally charged, and counters with feelings over facts.

2. The student is factually minded, and counters as such.

however

The teacher is *somewhat* right, in regards to police killings. When put into perspective based on population, yes, the shootings are disproportionate, and in most cases, the police can be so indiscriminately without repercussion, having loss of their job being the highest result (we investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong)

On the flip side, the student is the most correct, as blacks kill each other more than police, most shootings are justified, the actual definition of terrorism and how it is used to describe attacks, the fact that we don't in fact have "right wing death squads" (that the teacher even believes there are)

It still stands that there is a teacher stating that everyone who doesn't agree with her is perpetuating white supremacy, That everything is skewed in favor of the white man......

a reply to: dothedew

Wow.

I'm watching this, and I'm just amazed...literally, this teacher uses soooooo many logical fallacies in her arguments.

I'm not saying that the student gets every single thing 100% correct, but man, if you're a teacher, you should NOT be perpetuating such horsesh*t.

She's a disgrace to the philosophy of teaching.

I wonder if she would admit that teachers get to act like this with impunity...

a reply to: theantediluvian

Did you miss the part where he relayed these facts in response to the statement that blacks are killed with impugnity?

Breaking down the demographics of who is the biggest pro-rata danger to blacks and the rate of police investigations into white cops who kill, was literally the perfect answer, no?

originally posted by: BlackJackal
This kid has a good head on his shoulder, but his stats aren't completely accurate here. So he is right, Cops do kill more whites than blacks. However, he claims he got his information from the FBI but the FBI doesn't have this data. Police are not required to report on how many people they kill so they usually don't. Recently though a journalist put together a database on police shootings by analyzing old news stories.

If we ignore the category "Race Unspecified" which is by far the largest group at 9256 people we get the following breakdown.

White - 45.17%
Black - 31.88%
Hispanic - 19.06%
Asian - 2.19%
Native American - 1.42%
Middle Eastern - 0.25%

So yes in raw numbers police kill more whites than blacks. However, when you factor in population sizes it looks a little different.

Population by Race

White - 73.9%
Black - 13.3%

So with that in mind, blacks are killed at a rate ~3 times more than than their population distribution would suggest.

Don't misunderstand me here, the teacher is also extremely out of line here as well with her whole white supremacist line. I mean, she doesn't even let the guy get a word in once she gets talking and she keeps using terms like "people like you" and she refers to herself as "a very smart woman" who believes that anything that hurts people of color is terrorism.

Also, I don't think this kid is Right Wing either. If you watch the video he even says that he is in the middle.

Blacks also commit far more crime per capita. Something like 50% of the murders are blacks so while the black community only makes up a small percentage of the population, they are far more likely to be in contact with police in situations that could lead to being killed.

This is the dirty truth that people like to gloss over...

There is absolutely no data or facts that supports blacks being killed wantonly by police.

I think the reality of the situation is that cops in minority areas tend to have to deal with high crime levels and thus police accordingly which is more aggressively. I can't tell you how many times I've seen admitted gangbangers crying about how they are treated by police. I am like WTF? You are a gangbanger, how do you expect them to treat you?

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: BASSPLYR

They werent having a debate. The kids was trying to relay facts to the teacher that point out her distorted view of reality.

Of course you'd say that, you've probably made the same nonsensical "arguments." As I said, it wasn't much of a debate. Clearly the teacher wasn't up to having it either or that kid wouldn't have found the video worth posting.

Oh, you don't agree?

Well white people are responsible for 81.3% of the murders of white people in recent FBI stats. Boom. Mic drop.

"But wait," you may be thinking, "That's got nothing to do with what you were saying?"

And you'd be right. It's a random tangentially related fact that has no real bearing on what I was saying. But it's a fact. So technically, I'm "relaying facts" and by your distorted view of logic, I win.

do you mean like white people are more likely to get shot by police than Black people? Or that black on black crime is hugely larger than white on black crime? Those were his points, and they are facts. The teacher would not agree, didn't cite anything factual to counter the argument, and basically acted like you just did.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: dothedew

The kids starts with the "argument" that what? Black civilians kill more black people than cops do? Utterly irrelevant. Diabetes is responsible for WAY more deaths per year in the US than murder. So I guess we shouldn't be concerned about murder either?

If homicide rates go up, are conservatives going to rush to say "can't talk about that until we get this heart disease situation taken care of?"

Then he just goes off some diatribe with straw men about "just like slavery" and "right wing death squads" which is pure fantasy on his part.

I can't make out what the teacher is saying either in most of this but it sounds like this kid she's just repeating talking points. Wonderful, these two are having the same "debate" we see 10,000 times a day on the Internet.

Not everybody is on ATS.

originally posted by: dothedew
When put into perspective based on population, yes, the shootings are disproportionate, and in most cases, the police can be so indiscriminately without repercussion, having loss of their job being the highest result (we investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong)

But, statistically speaking, crime is committed in disproportionately high numbers in minority populations as well (concerning overall population percentage). This would mean that, of course, there are more interactions with police, and more police-involved shootings in the group that has the higher instances of committing crimes (in relation to their demographic).

Look at it this way: White people comprise about 77% of the American population; Black people make up 13.3%.

When it comes to the commission of offenses tracked by the FBI, here are some pertinent breakdowns:

OVERALL COMMISSION OF CRIMES:

- White: 69.6%
- Black: 26.9%

MURDER AND NONNEGLIGENT MANSLAUGHTER:

- White: 44.7%
- Black: 52.6%

ROBBERY:

- White: 43.4%
- Black: 54.5%

MOTOR VEHICLE THEFT:

- White: 66.0%
- Black: 30.7%

STOLEN PROPERTY:

- White: 64.2%
- Black: 33.4%

WEAPONS:

- White: 55.9%
- Black: 41.8%

2016 FBI Crime Statistics

My point in listing all of those out--which are ones that I assume lead to the most officer-involved shootings--is to show that proportionate to the percentage of population, the black population commits a much higher amount of crimes. Every percentage that I listed on there is more than 200% the population percentage of black people, and every percentage is less that 100% of the white population.

Hell, it's not a good sign when NONE of the crimes in that FBI list show a percentage pertaining to black people that falls at or below the 100% percentage of the population (the lowest is DUI, at 13.6%). On the contrary, at 77% of the American population, white people exceeded that percentage of the racial distribution for crimes twice, for DUI (82.2%) and "Liquor Laws" (79.2%), coming to a close third with Drunkenness (76.5%). (Bunch of drunkards!)

Hopefully you see what I'm getting at here--if crime demographics were proportionate to population demographics, this would not be the case. But they're not--on average, white people commit crimes at 90% of their overall population demographic percentage, while black people commit crimes at 202% of their overall population demographic percentage.

Just something to note, too, is that there have been numerous officers who have been incarcerated for unjustified force and killings, so to claim that loss of job is the worst outcome that happens to officer who do bad things is absolutely not true. Yes, I think that officers are not held to the standard that they should be, and that more should lose their jobs and receive convictions than do, but the reality is that it does happen, even if not in every instance that I think that it should.

originally posted by: BlackJackal

If we ignore the category "Race Unspecified" which is by far the largest group at 9256 people we get the following breakdown.

White - 45.17%
Black - 31.88%
...

So yes in raw numbers police kill more whites than blacks. However, when you factor in population sizes it looks a little different.

If you look at the FBI stats that I noted in my post (above this comment), you'll note that black people are responsible for, on average, 26.9% of the commissions of crimes tracked by the FBI, but with the subjective list that I made of the offenses that seem to result in the most "iffy" encounters with police, they average about 42.6% (again, note that it is a subjective list, based on my own opinion).

White people, in those same catagories, average about 54.84%.

You're looking at a 10% difference, give or take (9%-ish for white, 11%-ish for black) in the demographic breakdown of police involved shootings versus racial participation in the crimes that I listed (again, a subjective list, for sure).

Point being, the difference is not nearly as dramatic as people want us to believe, and none of these numbers account for the actions of suspects at the time of the shooting, therefore we cannot make ANY determination as to the percentage of these shootings that were justified.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Blacks also commit far more crime per capita. Something like 50% of the murders are blacks so while the black community only makes up a small percentage of the population, they are far more likely to be in contact with police in situations that could lead to being killed.

This is the dirty truth that people like to gloss over...

There is absolutely no data or facts that supports blacks being killed wantonly by police.

I think the reality of the situation is that cops in minority areas tend to have to deal with high crime levels and thus police accordingly which is more aggressively.

This.

Exactly this.

It's a truth that most people are unwilling to accept or admit, so we have what we got with the teacher in the video--someone who thinks that everyone shot by police are victims, and that the disproportionate amount of policing of minority neighborhoods or the elevated proportion of police shootings of minorities (relative to overall demographic percentage) is and will always be unwarranted.

The illogical approach to such a stance is borderline infuriating, especially when it's coupled with the reality that she is a teacher.

And knows definitions better than the dictionary, I guess.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: BlackJackal

If we ignore the category "Race Unspecified" which is by far the largest group at 9256 people we get the following breakdown.

White - 45.17%
Black - 31.88%
...

So yes in raw numbers police kill more whites than blacks. However, when you factor in population sizes it looks a little different.

If you look at the FBI stats that I noted in my post (above this comment), you'll note that black people are responsible for, on average, 26.9% of the commissions of crimes tracked by the FBI, but with the subjective list that I made of the offenses that seem to result in the most "iffy" encounters with police, they average about 42.6% (again, note that it is a subjective list, based on my own opinion).

White people, in those same catagories, average about 54.84%.

You're looking at a 10% difference, give or take (9%-ish for white, 11%-ish for black) in the demographic breakdown of police involved shootings versus racial participation in the crimes that I listed (again, a subjective list, for sure).

Point being, the difference is not nearly as dramatic as people want us to believe, and none of these numbers account for the actions of suspects at the time of the shooting, therefore we cannot make ANY determination as to the percentage of these shootings that were justified.

The reality is that cop killings are a very small number. Vast majority of those killed "had it coming". There are a handful of cases where cops clearly crossed the line, but we are talking single digit incidents and often times those cops are punished.

The other issue too is that each police interaction is a unique event. No two interactions will ever go the same. So when someone says "They wouldn't have shot a white guy" it is a farce because we don't know how the entire interaction would have gone down.

Black people have a legitimate beef with cops given the racial history of police interactions. However, today it is more just a convenient excuse for the ideology of victimology.

Wow! I really have to say that this teacher and school board would be hearing from me if that was my child. He handled himself exemplary while being attacked by an 'authority' figure. Obviously, kudos need to go out to his parents! I noticed the English 12 on the board in the background...so is this a senior English teacher who thinks she is smarter than a dictionary?

Edit add: also, want to say that I don't think this kid is right wing...he is just RIGHT.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Sadly these problems will never get fixed when one side dismisses the facts and refuses to look at the reality and just calls you names like racist and radical.

Both sides dismiss the facts on almost every issue, just to promote their agenda. This isn't exclusive to the right wing or left wing.

a reply to: dothedew

One of the comments below the vid sums it up well

www.theblaze.com...

D.A.Veteran on Nov 6, 2017 1:23 pm said
We must stop calling them leftists, liberals etc. They are not Democrats of JFK era.

They are Marxists: Communists, Socialists, Fascists, Islamists. Search Frankfurt School of Cultural Marxism. Thats where infiltration in our colleges began, with Jewish Communist Professors who left Germany after Communism failed and Socialism was on the rise with Hitler.

They moved to the U.S. to join other Communists already here creating workers unions, to spread their evil. Today, Democrat Party is the Marxist Party, to destroy our Constitutional Republic

Every Conservative here knows what it is like to try to explain real facts to a Liberal/Leftist.
It's a lost cause.

THe major point being missed quoting FBI stats is that "white people" includes hispanic as well as caucasian.

The teacher is a complete tool. She can't stand being wrong.