The word fact and opinion are not the same word

a reply to: dfnj2015

I knew there was a good chance this thread was headed down hill after you quoted some statistics as facts...

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
"we spend way too much money on the military"

That's a FACT.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean its inherently an opinion. Otherwise everything would be opinion.

"we don't spend nearly enough on the military"

That's a FACT.


See how that could go either way. Military spending would be based on what you think is appropriate. Other people will think a different amount is appropriate, even if its a 25 cent difference.

To change this statement to fact, I would suggest the following:

"we spend $$$ on military spending." - "I believe that is too much"

Fact & Opinion in the same breath and both are valid.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The problem with your way of thinking is you are not taking into account people have opinions about which facts are important.

You seem to think opinions supported by facts are some kind of higher truth. Again, as stated many times in the thread, people can take the same facts and come to a opposite conclusion. So there is a very important consideration to be made about how one qualifies ones own opinion as being supported by facts and therefore is some kind of higher truth.

But you have to admit this is where intelligent debate begins. If we both present our opinions with supporting facts, we can each argue our case. It could go on for hours with no clear winner but we all probably learned from it. Who knows, one might influence another's future opinions. When it degrades into name calling or bullying then the debate has lost its intellect and is useless. Unfortunately, that seems to be where a lot of threads go in the mud pit.

a reply to: Tellurian

The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Tellurian

The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion.

shhhh....

If you keep telling them what they don't want to hear they might have to accept that climate change is real

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I dont actually favor notions such as "scientific consensus", especially not in a discussion of Facts.

If you see my work up to that question though, the way I was going with it was, in terms of economics:

-At some point it can be calculated the status of 'living beyond ones means'.

Seems obvious to me if somenoun is doing such and someones says "spending way too much" that's more fact than opinion. Call it Truth, or whatever, same damn thing at a certain point.

-Now factor in, in this case military spending, other metrics beyond budget + national debt that further tips the scales between opinion/fact.

I cant think of any that play favor for the 'we NEED to spend a trillion annual on the military' crowd (which is you factor in the true numbers that's about what the military gets to costing) even IF we weren't going to consider the National Debt into the discussion.

Several facets of inquiry come to mind, that to explore them would end up sort of derailing this thread (or would it, as that was used as an example in the OP), where I'd love to see anyone try to justify such spending by any metric conceivable. I'd really enjoy that thread...

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Tellurian

The hockey stick graph IS a fact. That is actually how our climate has been behaving recently. Your interpretation of it is what is the opinion.

shhhh....

If you keep telling them what they don't want to hear they might have to accept that climate change is real

Climate change is a fact.

Opinions as to it's cause and implications however vary.

a reply to: nonspecific

Yes, it is a Fact that the climate changes.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

HSG is a crock of propaganda snip.


en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Tellurian
a reply to: dfnj2015

I knew there was a good chance this thread was headed down hill after you quoted some statistics as facts...

The question over whether a fact is a true or false has nothing to do with this discussion. Talking about statistics and the way data can be manipulated to give a certain opinion is a different discussion. There is a number of how many teenage girls get pregnant per 1000 in this country. That number if measured correctly is a fact. It's not something open to interpretation.

Are you saying because facts may be wrong all facts are opinions?

Do you agree that fact and opinion are not the same word? If not, what is the difference in your mind.

originally posted by: Tellurian
a reply to: dfnj2015

I knew there was a good chance this thread was headed down hill after you quoted some statistics as facts...

I think Corbett is awesome. However, I do not agree with his opinions in this video. Yes, statistics and graphs can be manipulated. And yes, some of the studies on global climate change resulting from burning fossil fuels can be disputed. But that's what science is all about. Science does not always get it right the first time. But what science is really good at is taking superstition out of the equation. People who dispute burning fossil fuel is causing global warming with possible bad consequence are living in a superstitious delusion world. The science in this subject is getting better all the time:

The 97% consensus on global warming

The science may not be perfect but science is the best way to determine superstitious free truth. All we get from the climate change denies is opinion propaganda.

Based on our understanding of chemistry, I think we can say with confidence burning fossil fuels has consequences.

Now how to respond to these consequences and what public policies need to be put into affect is purely opinion.

a reply to: dfnj2015

fact and opinion are not the same word... If not, what is the difference in your mind

If you want to know the meaning of a word, you should ask a lawyer,,,

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It is still REAL data therefore it is factual.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Truth is not the same word as fact. Truth has other connotations. It still seems like you are saying your opinions are truth, and therefore, are more valid than other people's opinions.

Give me examples of what you consider truth, fact, and opinion so I can see your distinctions.

Truth: two types of truth...absolute truth which is nearly impossible to achieve in this world as fleshing it out is still reliant on human perception. And relative truth, or the truth as the individual sees it. Often relative truth doesn't weigh any fact and is weighed solely on emotion and/or peer pressure

Fact: an indisputable detail.

Opinion: Typically, this would be what we call "relative truth" above. Some opinions are more weighty than others, when they omit emotion and rely more on fact

Long story short: facts can support a truth. They create truths. But they are not truths.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So I guess the trillions they borrow and will never be repaid is just an opinion as well. Try pulling that stunt when you apply for a loan with your bank. The difference that you fail to realize is that your Govt has the future earning capacity of its citizens as collateral to keep borrowing. Fact.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

The statement that they (the government) borrow trillions of dollars is a fact. The statement that it will never be repaid is an opinion.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm telling ya brother..... they just can't wrap their minds around it.

And on top of that, they get lost in the example as if that is what the thread is about.

I'm sorry, but I believe the longer you slam your head into this wall, your skull will crack before it does. lol

a reply to: Eshel

Well one thing I see is that it is highlighting another topic that needs to be discussed and addressed on ATS. The growing lack of critical thinking and disregard for reading comprehension.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Eshel

Well one thing I see is that it is highlighting another topic that needs to be discussed and addressed on ATS. The growing lack of critical thinking and disregard for reading comprehension.

A lot of people just pick out key words and then think how they can fit in what is important to them at the time regardless of what the actual topic in question is.

try starting a conversation by saying "hey I watched a great documentary on netflix the other day" and see how long it takes the average individual to ignore the fact that you were about to tell them about something and start telling you about a film they watched last week becuase all they heard was "Netflix".

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I love the platitudes but can you give some concrete examples. I'm not a very smart person.