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I've realised something about US gun control, and I'd like to share it....

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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

LOL, you almost made me spit my coffee up from laughing


As a side note, anyone know how to prevent the syrup/flavoring from settling at the bottom of a Starbucks caramel macchiato?





posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: badw0lf

and we even have those funny looking lot, the Yanks. Can't quite put my finger on what they are.


I believe it was Kevin "Bloody" Wilson who pointed out that "Yank" rhymes with "Septic Tank", which is also where the name "Seppos" comes from.

Anyone outside Australia won't have a clue what I'm talking about lol.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

The problem stems from several things:

1) Some people seem to think the US is and should be just like the UK and Australia - The fact is, the US is nothing like the UK or Ozzie land. Not just culture differences and origins differences, but even physical differences (we are not a island nation - we have two other countries that border ours).

2) Banning something does not make it go away here in the US - Both Prohibition and the War On Drugs have proven this over and over. Ban something here, and it will flow across our borders (we're not an island nation again).

3) Banning something does not magically make it go away - Banning guns has no effect here. Guns will still be here. Does not mater how many here on ATS seem to think that all guns will somehow magically disappear if the federal government were to removed the 2nd Amendment and ban all privately owned guns. The guns will still be here (hundreds of millions of them), and they will flow across the border.

4) More laws are not going to change anything. Yesterday's shooting is a prime example of that - the shooter was not allowed to legally own a firearm, and yet he was able to obtain one and kill people with it. Murder is also against the law, but that did not stop him. Too many people here seem to think that more laws will somehow magically stop mass shootings. It won't.

The United States of America is the United States of America. People need to stop demanding that it be the UK or Australia, or Norway, or Sweden, or any other country. It's not, nor will it ever be like them.

The US is a large country with a large population and a large amount of gun ownership. It's a fact of life. We have a very wide amount of demographics and various cultures right within our own boarders.

If you live in New Jersey (a physically small state as far as land area is considered), you have 1,218 people in on square mile. Yet in Wyoming it's only 6 people per square mile.....Alaska? 1 person per square mile.....and those are just numbers. There are places you can go where there is no one for many square miles.

We have tens of millions of people packed into huge mega cities.....but we also have millions of people (millions of them) living in very rural areas....and people living in areas that are not even rural, but are considered wilderness.

The main mindset of most Americans (and has been since this country got started) is that you can do what you want, be what you want, go where you want, say what you want, believe in what you want, and own what you want.....with out the damn government interfering with that. It's what the founding values of this country were.

Trying to dictate to us what we can or can not do, can or can not say, can or can not own is never, ever, going to fly.

I know many of you do not like the US bombing some country and trying to change their governments, right? (which I agree with, I don't think we should be doing that either).

But here you are trying to do the same thing in essence: dictate what laws we should have, what we should and should not be able to do, and what we can or can not own, in our own country.

Stop it. Stop the double standard. The US will never be the UK or any other country for that mater. What works in one place does not always work elsewhere.



Well said.

I wish people would apply your same post to banning people, putting them on lists/databases, forcing them to wear certain patches, etc etc



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem

Aww man, I don't wanna fight the red coats though


They make really good toad in the hole and shepherds pie over there, and I worry that any conflict would cut off the flow of these delicious treats



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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Problem is the cat is already out of the bag, or pandoras box has already been opened...


What I mean by that is the gun has been invented and there is no taking that back. Even if you could magically take away all the guns (which is a fantasy) people would just make more guns....


People like myself know enough about the basic workings of a gun that I could make guns from scrape metal...

I give you the gun markets of Pakistan and Afghanistan as an example.....










posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

We kicked the UK tyranny out with guns and now they have violent no go zones for cops there.


#realizefyou
edit on 6-11-2017 by circuitsports because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

Thank you for a well drafted reply. I grew up in a city, but my family has always had guns. My father taught us how to handle guns safely at a young age. My husband grew up in Wyoming. He, too, learned how to respect guns for the tools that they are at a young age. He is also a retired Army Ranger, with 2 combat tours under his belt. Now we live in the country, and our nearest neighbors are over 2 miles away. All of my children know how to handle guns. We practice with them, and my husband is VERY clear that they are dangerous if used incorrectly. They also know that if they EVER point a gun at another human being, they need to be quite certain of the ramifications. Regardless of the reasons to point a gun at someone, taking a life will change you.

We routinely have guests from Spain come into town for my husband’s job. They love to come here and shoot our guns. We feed them BBQ and pie, but no alcohol until they are finished shooting. They jokingly call it “The Typical American Sunday”. Although they joke about it, perhaps in their minds that’s what we do here all of the time. When in reality, most of our guns only come out when they’re here, or if we need to practice. The exceptions are our rifle and one of our pistols. If something is getting our chickens, we shoot. Sometimes to scare away a predator, sometimes to kill it. Just depends on if it’s a stray dog, or a raccoon.

A few years ago a rattlesnake was coiled within 6 feet of my youngest son. I shot the damn thing. Had I not practiced a lot, I might have missed. But I didn’t. Our lives are very different here than on the other side of the pond. Come stay at our house for more than a weekend and you might just change your mind.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: GuidedKill

Not to glance over your post (made a lot of great points), but I recently learned one can fashion an AK-47 receiver from a shovel


In all fairness though, I don't think anyone here (even those against firearms) is suggesting a total outright ban - at least not as a practical solution. I love our Constitution and all of the BOR's amendments. I also believe there is a lot both sides can learn by hearing what the other side of this (or any) debate has to say.

When people start saying things like "take all the guns," in my experience they are doing so from a position of frustration believing that no one is hearing them. It is similar to my reaction of "allow all guns, repeal the NFA/GCA" when I hear an over the top suggestion being made (example: "send the military door to door to confiscate all guns"). It is my belief that we continue to feed off the over-reactions of each side in a never-ending but always-escalating war of words.

Such a political climate accomplishes a few things, none of which are particularly helpful. It makes both sides feel like no one is listening, which is never productive. We don't have to agree with our opponents to at least hear their ideas out. It also prevents any real discussion regarding some [what I believe to be] very reasonable measures which some of us may actually support (we can't know if we like something until we hear the proposal, right?).

In such an uncooperative atmosphere, a lot of our finer points (like a lot you made in your post, including our ~400,000,000 guns and the ease of manufacture) get lost in the muck and prevents those on the other side from considering or even hearing our side.

This is of course just my opinion, and this is in no way criticism of you or anyone else just some random thoughts that popped into my head while typing the reply

edit on 11/6/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: midnightstar
Before guns people were being killed with swords and arrows before swords and arrows people were being killed with spears before spears rocks .


Before the hyperdermic needle people were destroying there lives by consuming herion or coc aine laced cough medicine. Before the introduction of modern day chemistry, men were selling there wifes or daughters simply to gain access to poppie resin.

My point is, sometimes technology advances faster than the human brain is able to adapt.

Like I've stated before, full blown prohibition is not the answer.... But common sense regulation, is vital, when it comes to maintaining a civilized, stable and peaceful society.

Us homo sapiens are simply still far to primitive at this point in our evolution to be trusted with some of the vices our current technolgy provides.

Its the whole reason why the US government completely melts down at the very prospect of North Korea having access to nuclear weapons... lol.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: avgguy
It's our right to own guns. You don't have that right and never will, that's why we fight to keep our rights so that we aren't disarmed sheep like Europe is.


Fair point but I don't know the last time a Church got shot up in England, you're looking at 1700's or something, in USA before this recent one it was what? July? You have a problem.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Like I said.. any discussion on any actual proposals instantly devolves into mental masterbation hypotheticals about banning all guns..

Something that no one ever eleteted has ever even proposed..
edit on 6-11-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
Good afternoon ATS.

I have recently reached a conclusion, and I'd like to share my experience with others, to try to stop some of the ongoing debates....

I recently realized that the UK and US's views on gun control are so diametrically opposed, that arguing/debating about said gun controls is fruitless.... It took me 20 years to get to this point... I've spent that last 20 years attempting to point out where the Americans are going wrong, in my opinion, and I've reached this conclusion:-


Americans believe that a society with more guns is a safer society, the more guns the better.

Most other countries, (including the UK and Australia), believe that a society with less guns is safer, seems like common sense...


Unfortunately no headway will ever be made in this debate due to this reason....

So let's extend it to its ridiculous extents.... If no-one had guns, think how hard it would be to get hold of one? Would this result in less shootings or more? Think about it....

If everyone had say, 30 guns, imagine how many more accidents there would be? How would this affect the number of shootings that happen?

I'd be interested to hear all views and opinions on this matter....

PA


Rather simple to rebut. Frankly, not even a logical supposition. There will NEVER be 'no guns'. Criminals will retain them. Both private and Gov't criminals.

The U.K., due to generations of emigration of her 'alphas', is left with a collective DNA which accepts feudalism as their lot.

The Aussies are addled by over-rated beer, heat stroke and snake venom.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

The Aussies are addled by over-rated beer, heat stroke and snake venom.


LOL.

I REALLY hope you're joking about that. If not, however.....

1. Over-rated beer? Are you talking about that Fosters crap we export? You actually think Aussies drink that carbonated urine? We keep the good stuff for ourselves and you lot get the dregs.

2. Heat stroke - only during summer
In winter, where I live 2 hours west of Sydney on a farm it gets into the negatives (Celcius). We had snow here the past several winters.

3. It might surprise foreigners to know but its rare for someone to die here in Oz of snake or spider bites. We have the best anti-venom protocols in the world, all hospitals/ambos are well stocked and we are taught in primary school how to treat bites and get help. Simple, common sense precautions will avoid most sticky situations.


edit on 6/11/2017 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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Since 1968 (when they started tracking gun deaths) there have been 1,516,863 gun-related deaths on US territory. Since the founding of the United States, there have been 1,396,733 war deaths. That's from every war we've ever been involved in.

Don't know why you'd think there is a problem here! Nothing to see.. move along, guns r gud.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

By your thinking, since I'm a gun owner, I should have been shot at by others with guns. Hasn't happened. Won't, in all likelihood.

I've said this innumerable times in my almost twelve years on ATS, I don't own guns to fight off some nebulous fascistic govt bent on domination. I own because I hunt. I own because I flat enjoy shooting as a hobby. The third reason, and the one least likely to happen (knockin' on wood) is having to shoot someone in defense of my family and myself. I've only ever come close to having to shoot someone once, and that someone decided to run away to live longer...for which I am, and will be eternally, grateful.

I'll take my freedom to act much as I choose, go pretty much anywhere I want, say close to anything I want, over some nebulous, easily removed, "safety". I'd much rather depend upon myself for my safety.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: Taggart

Who said that there wasn't a problem??

There, obviously, is--a bad one.

However, the solution is not "take away the guns". I've yet to see, in all my time spent around them (lots of time), see one jump off the table, out of the cabinet, or rack, and do anything on its own. Never.

The problem lies within mental health or, more accurately, lack thereof. That needs addressing. Firearms isn't, save in the most tangential fashion, the issue. But they're the easiest one to look at and say "If the shooter (whichever one) hadn't had one, this wouldn't have happened!!".

No, maybe not in the fashion it happened, but that person would have found another, in all likelihood, way to kill. A truck in France. Bombs in Northern Ireland/London, during the Troubles, and many other places use other tools. You don't blame the tool, it's the operator.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: nwtrucker

The Aussies are addled by over-rated beer, heat stroke and snake venom.


LOL.

I REALLY hope you're joking about that. If not, however.....

1. Over-rated beer? Are you talking about that Fosters crap we export? You actually think Aussies drink that carbonated urine? We keep the good stuff for ourselves and you lot get the dregs.

2. Heat stroke - only during summer
In winter, where I live 2 hours west of Sydney on a farm it gets into the negatives (Celcius). We had snow here the past several winters.

3. It might surprise foreigners to know but its rare for someone to die here in Oz of snake or spider bites. We have the best anti-venom protocols in the world, all hospitals/ambos are well stocked and we are taught in primary school how to treat bites and get help. Simple, common sense precautions will avoid most sticky situations.



Yep, a joke. Slightly more logical than the OP, however..



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: seagull

How would mental health treatment have helped the Charleston shooter? Or that Muslim couple who went on that shooting rampage? They didn't look to have any obvious mental health issues that could have been addressed to prevent what they did.

One MIGHT be able to be explained by the "terrorism" explanation, but the Charleston shooter?

Obviously there are some that DO have clear mental health issues, like James Holmes or Jared Laughner (I think that's his name) - but clearly not ALL can be explained by this. Yes, get onto the mental health thing, but it clearly isn't the only reason these mass shootings happen. We need to find out why - and the "he's just a bad guy" doesn't cut it for me.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

Yep, a joke. Slightly more logical than the OP, however..


Ok good lol. You had me worried there for a second that you actually believed that.




posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:25 PM
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The problem isn't the gun its the person, sick people drive cars into crowds and unbalanced people will always find ways and means to kill.

Take away firearms and watch the mayhem, the only thing keeping violent people from doing more harm is the possible threat some victim may be able to defend them-self.

You would have to ban machetes, knives, swords, throw stars, cars, trucks, planes, motorcycles, poisons, fuels, glass, nails and anything else deadly to wrap people up in cotton wool to make them feel safe. Then go after all the snakes, spiders, scorpions and sharks just so people can sleep at night ?

YOU CANNOT MAKE PEOPLE SAFE FROM DELIBERATE ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!



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