I've realised something about US gun control, and I'd like to share it....

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Feel free to move to the UK or Australia.

The Problem is irresponsible gun owners who may be trigger happy or think guns are their saviours. I believe people should have all the guns bombs ammo they want as long as it doesn't affect their communities with or without a license to own and operate or the skill to use them.

I believe like the drug war....everything being legal and commercialized actually totally takes all that taboo power out of it and no longer does anyone feel all gangster or gunslinger doc at the OK Corral against wicked authoritarians.

I say illegal or legal....All Gun Owners including Military/Police/Swat Force are all going to end up destroying each others families in a massive blaze of bloody ruins.

Real Change....Equals Real People being taken out of the equation of a functional well organized intelligent force of united labor to overcome a New World Order Scenario or Ruling Classs takeover.

Real Change...is really expensive when it comes to a concerted global effort of people in grassroots low income capability.
The Ruling Class is truly not Politicians....It's the Financial Elite in the High Finance and Banking Industry concerning Money Shifting to create or influence our political obstacles to Unity and Liberation.
Prime Ministers, Presidents, KIngs and Political Leaders of any kind are substrates caliphates and surrogate designers and implementing the Financial Elites General Overall DARK.HIVE agenda.

The best thing is to absolutely not take media, entertainment, politics how you make a living and all the bull# we think we need to do or be that seriously at all.

That's how they will be terminated...They eat their double standard of using both sides against each other pitting everyone against each other in Absolute Blood Shed....

Just so they can turn around and offer the solution....A New World Order where the only way you shop in a grocery store and drink clean water still is a implant to buy/sell in-between thumb and index finger..
You probably never quite understood the definition of pure methodical unfeeling evil....It's not if but a question of time unless we go postal in the only answer and OverDOse on FUKITOL!!!
Don't forget your side effect medication as well PSYCHOFOOL!!!

a reply to: LostGods


LG, I appreciate the well thought out and cogent post

I do agree that trigger happy gun owners are a problem we need to work on, as you can keep weapons for defense without "looking forward" to their use. But you're right, the mythical status all this media attention has given firearms has galvanized the community, and risks forcing sales to all time highs.

The panic buying alone that ensues during such a time is a symptom of this problem. I remember after Sandy Hook you simply couldn't find certain ammo for reasonable prices, and other ammo (like 22 lr) couldn't be found period unless you lucked out.

I agree there are forces which seek to exploit the internal divisions among pro-US loyalists. Anti-US forces would happily continue along their merry way, until such a time as NWO implementation is actually feasible. As it stands right now, a small number of people are dying because of gun related incidents which the NWO would love to blow out of proportion.

It is dishonest for them to examine "gun related deaths" but not "total murders annually"

This is certainly a classic example of Hegelian dialectic!

It doesn't really matter what the debate is, the fact is that the US has a Constitution, which has a 2nd Amendment, which was placed in the Bill of Rights to ensure that the common person had access to firearms capable of not only repelling a thug but more importantly a tyrannical government. The Amendment was placed there so that the Government was afraid of the people and to prevent the people from ever having to be afraid of the government. The 2nd Amendment is not there for hunting or sporting. Before you go off on the "militia" only angle you need to look at the comma usage. Its not saying that its there for the militia. What its saying is because its important to have a militia, this right shall not be infringed.

Are you more or less likely to walk into a bank, knowing everyone there is armed, to rob the place?
Taking guns away from people does nothing to prevent mass murder, it only makes it more bloody. They'd use knives, explosives, and other instruments of death instead. There was a relatively recent mass murder on a subway using knives in Taiwan, perhaps it was China. NO ONE COULD STOP HIM! It was very bloody.

Before you go off and say mass shootings only happen in the US, there are 10 countries that have higher rates of mass shootings than the US.
If severe gun restrictions solved violent gun crime, Chicago would be a paradise.

a reply to: chr0naut

That would be a good thing.

Bloodless is usually preferable, I really can't think of a time where it wouldn't be...

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Its not the guns that are the problem it is the culture. There are other cultures that have guns but dont go around mass shooting each other. The American culture is too violent to have guns..

originally posted by: arcnaver
...the fact is that the US has a Constitution, which has a 2nd Amendment, which was placed in the Bill of Rights to ensure that the common person had access to firearms capable of not only repelling a thug but more importantly a tyrannical government. The Amendment was placed there so that the Government was afraid of the people and to prevent the people from ever having to be afraid of the government.

It seems to me that the average American is afraid of the tyranny of their fellow man rather than the government. Americans are armed to protect themselves against armed Americans. As an outsider looking in, I find this more worrying.

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly
Good afternoon ATS.

I have recently reached a conclusion, and I'd like to share my experience with others, to try to stop some of the ongoing debates....

I recently realized that the UK and US's views on gun control are so diametrically opposed, that arguing/debating about said gun controls is fruitless.... It took me 20 years to get to this point... I've spent that last 20 years attempting to point out where the Americans are going wrong, in my opinion, and I've reached this conclusion:-


Americans believe that a society with more guns is a safer society, the more guns the better.

Most other countries, (including the UK and Australia), believe that a society with less guns is safer, seems like common sense...


Unfortunately no headway will ever be made in this debate due to this reason....

So let's extend it to its ridiculous extents.... If no-one had guns, think how hard it would be to get hold of one? Would this result in less shootings or more? Think about it....

If everyone had say, 30 guns, imagine how many more accidents there would be? How would this affect the number of shootings that happen?

I'd be interested to hear all views and opinions on this matter....

PA

In the US, killing people is against the law. How is that working out so far?

originally posted by: avgguy
It's our right to own guns. You don't have that right and never will, that's why we fight to keep our rights so that we aren't disarmed sheep like Europe is.

Euhmm... I live in Belgium and can own every single gun or rifle you can...
Public carry is just illegal

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

It's a little easier to keep guns off an island than out of a country that borders a lawless nation.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Its not the guns that are the problem it is the culture. There are other cultures that have guns but dont go around mass shooting each other. The American culture is too violent to have guns..

I don't really agree with that - most Americans are not violent by nature. I still think the issue is very open country, easy to obtain guns, poor tracking with those with mental health issues, poor gun vetting. The mere fact that many of these shooters have an arsenal including bombs, and no one had a clue, makes it clear it's too easy to get these things.

But Trump wants to stop immigrants.. in case might might "get a bad one," that wants to kill U.S. citizens. When the reality is our biggest danger is ourselves. And the "you won't tread on MY rights, nothing is wrong!" people don't seem to get that if nothing changes, it's simply going to continue.

It's ironic that many of these same people feel we need to "keep terrorists out," but.. seem to have a blind spot if it might inconvenience them a bit if we had harsher vetting to obtain weapons as a citizen. Can't have that! Extra two weeks to get my gun? Hell no!

originally posted by: FauxMulder
If we made drugs illegal would I still be able to get them at any middle school? Oh wait......that's exactly how it is already.

So institutions that are supposed to protect people are clearly not working - but your above comment in answer to OP would make sense only if you send your kid with drugs to school, so that someone else does not sell drugs to them. Do you see irony in your failing to give good example??

originally posted by: FauxMulder
I have about half that and I haven't shot anybody. Maybe if I get a few more....

'nuff said

originally posted by: FauxMulder
So why make a thread asking us rhetorical questions about something you know we wont ever agree on?

Not all Americans are like you. If you take that approach, no forum or ATS would exist.

a reply to: JBurns

Absolutely....


In both cases it makes up the smallest fraction of the total violence....

Everything kills more people than mass shootings and terrorism..

Hell, appearently by the statistics. The most dangerous time in a police officers day is merging onto the interstate.. the same as every other citizen..

Micheal Moore’s documentary preposed that it wasn’t guns.. it was that the media has us all expecting a rapey serial killer to kick in the door at any moment?!?!

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: FauxMulder
If we made drugs illegal would I still be able to get them at any middle school? Oh wait......that's exactly how it is already.

So institutions that are supposed to protect people are clearly not working - but your above comment in answer to OP would make sense only if you send your kid with drugs to school, so that someone else does not sell drugs to them. Do you see irony in your failing to give good example??

The example I gave has nothing to do with whether or not an item should be legal to own. It has everything to do with the fact that just because you make something illegal, doesn't mean people won't be able to get it. Read about how well prohibition worked out.

'nuff said

Sure, why not?

Not all Americans are like you. If you take that approach, no forum or ATS would exist.

What does that have to do with anything? The OP was saying he believes the debate is pointless and no one will ever change anyone's mind. I'm simply asking why make a thread if you think the dialogue is pointless. I never said all Americans think like me nor do I wish them to do so.

All we have to do is take a look at the drug epidemic to see how well prohibitions work. Drugs are not outright banned either, and are probably THE most regulated thing in this country. Even when someone doesn't simply use black market contacts (and provide funds to criminals with guns), they will abuse the system and con a doctor into giving them an Rx. This activity is also illegal, yet it doesn't deter anyone from abusing the system and still obtaining their drugs.

Why would anyone think guns are different? Only difference is that there aren't 400,000,000+ illegal drugs already in circulation either. This is why attempting to ban or restrict guns is never going to succeed. Even if an astonishing 50% of the population complied with any such laws, there would still be 200,000,000 unregistered/unknown weapons in circulation.

Not to mention the high incidence of boating accidents involving total loss of someone's arsenal. Gun legislation would directly contribute to an increase in such boating accidents. Think of the mariners!!!!!! Oh the humanity.

a reply to: fleabit

Kind of agree. I think most humans are not violent in nature. But the culture has a major role to play.. Look at how the USA was founded.. Founded on the back of another great nation. Look at Hiroshima, dropping a hydrogen bomb on a nation trying to surrender..

Yes the USA is a violent culture.. Ultra violent. Has been at war almost continuously since it was formed. The consumption of this great culture fare exceeds the capacity of the planet.

There is a cancer and its destroying the USA from within. Thats why the mass shootins. Sad but thats how it looks from outside eyes..