No More "secret" societies

Originally posted by intrepid
Is this yet another querry that you are going to ignore or obfuscate?

That's what my money's on.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by intrepid
Is this yet another querry that you are going to ignore or obfuscate?

That's what my money's on.

No, akilles is going for ignore. He logs in and out, posts in 3 other threads and totally ignores this question. How can any person be taken seriously if they will NOT answer questions about things that they post.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by akilles
Also, there is the well-publicized case of Paul Bernardo here in Canada, a serial rapist who the police basically did everything not to investigate, and coincidentally he was a Freemason (as well as a great many Police officers where he was to be investigated). But that didn't take place in a lodge, and didn't involve children.

Bernardo was a Mason? I'd like to see a link to that one. I'm quite familliar with this case seeing as he spent a fair bit of time at my workplace and this is news to me. As to the cops not wanting to investigate, got to call you on that one, BS.

So will I get an answer to these questions if I log off? You log in and out repeatedly and refuse to answer to your info. Not liking that. Apologies are welcome. Your move..................again.

Screw you guys, sorry for not getting to this right away, but this SHOULD suffice.

From: Peter Renzland ([email protected])
Subject: Paul Bernardo's Status
Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry
View this article only
Date: 2000-11-02 13:04:07 PST

I now have corroborated complete information, confirmed by
two Brethren, who asked at the G.L. office in person today:

After due process, Paul Bernardo was expelled.

--
Peter Renzland o
Simcoe 644 GRC `./ \.'
Toronto ON CA /`.'\


And then to confirm, Peter Renzland is a Freemason, right off the Ontario Grand Lodge site: Renzland, Peter [email protected] Toronto, Ontario Simcoe 644

I didn't make up some link, like even a Mod is willing to claim.

Originally posted by akilles
Here is a link to a page that lists convictions for Child Abuse, the one that mentions it occuring in a Lodge is at the bottom, under New Zealand.

The ritualistic aspects of the crimes often are not presented in court but are clearly indicated in the victims' accounts.

www.healingroads.org...

That page is also for anyone who thinks children would actually imagine horrid tales of un-IMAGINABLE abuse.

Also, there is the well-publicized case of Paul Bernardo here in Canada, a serial rapist who the police basically did everything not to investigate, and coincidentally he was a Freemason (as well as a great many Police officers where he was to be investigated). But that didn't take place in a lodge, and didn't involve children.

The report does say they were transported to a Masonic Lodge. It does not say Masons DID these unspeakable things. Could it not be an old Lodge that was sold (we sold our old Lodge a few years ago and a church meets there now) If there were Masons involved they deserve the stiffest penalty the law allows, because there's NOTHING Masonic about that sort of behavior....so again your point here is???

Originally posted by akilles
Screw you guys, sorry for not getting to this right away, but this SHOULD suffice.
From: Peter Renzland ([email protected])
Subject: Paul Bernardo's Status
Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry
View this article only
Date: 2000-11-02 13:04:07 PST
I now have corroborated complete information, confirmed by
two Brethren, who asked at the G.L. office in person today:
After due process, Paul Bernardo was expelled.
--
Peter Renzland o
Simcoe 644 GRC `./ \.'
Toronto ON CA /`.'\
And then to confirm, Peter Renzland is a Freemason, right off the Ontario Grand Lodge site: Renzland, Peter [email protected] Toronto, Ontario Simcoe 644

I didn't make up some link, like even a Mod is willing to claim.

I know Pete Renzland from a Masonic forum (Masonic Light I believe you do too) I'll send him an e-mail and verify this.

Link to the New Zealand case:

www.religioustolerance.org...

The above looks like a massive miscarriage of justice. Please note that the link isnot from a Masonic website.




It is true that Paul Bernardo was a Freemason.

www.masonicinfo.com...

Apart from the fact that Bernardo may have been a Freemason at the time of his crimes, there is nothing there to link his actions with Freemasonry.

Originally posted by Leveller
Apart from the fact that Bernardo may have been a Freemason at the time of his crimes, there is nothing there to link his actions with Freemasonry.

Exactly right. I just got an e-mail response from Peter Renzland. The reason for his research into the matter was, someone had claimed that Bernardo was never expelled, but he was. And, like you said, no links to Freemasonry. Just an individual acting on his own and not on the part of Freemasonry. The Lodge did what it should do in such an instance, they expelled him. Hopefully the justice system did what it should to him.

Originally posted by senrak
Hopefully the justice system did what it should to him.

Unfortunately not. He is still alive.

Originally posted by quinny
the masons are a load of crap, being an ex one experiencing it all you are lead to believe that the further you go the more the secrets will become aparent, im a christian and i cant leave christ at a door and pick him up when i come back out so think about it people!

lads im only winding yous up to get a reaction, seriously the masons are good people. All the teachings are good and th3ey way they conduct themselves is to be congratulated!

I'd be willing to bet that this is where ol' akilles got his information though.

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

Umm, would it have anything to do with YOU posting the link to the site yourself, and not actually reading anything?

Yeah, because otherwise you would have brought up Paul Bernardo yourself!

Massive miscarriage of justice in New Zealand, massive miscarriage of justice in Canada. Similarity: Freemasons.

So you guys think if you point it out that it means Fellow Brother Freemasons were not in any way involved?

Get real. Peter Renzland did not inquire if Paul Bernardo was kicked out. He MADE SURE Paul Bernardo was kicked out, because people were on the trail, and they needed to save face.

Again, I have never said ALL Freemasons are bad, just that Masons aren't willing to accept that ANY could be bad.

I just read that bunch of crap. The police made a very carefulf, time consuming investigation to wrap this case up. They didn't want to screw it up. No miscarraige of justice here.

BTW, Holmoka is up for release in July. Don't think the "dangerous offenders" act is going to be pass in time, so she will be out.

Originally posted by The_Final
Also the internet has killed any chance of a keeping stuff secret. You loose something being secret once you tell someone else.

Interesting, probably true, especially the part about once you tell one person a "secret", it is no longer secret.

But, I wanted to comment on your signature. I'm not putting it down or anything, it's just that I have also had a saying about the only thing anyone can count on in life. And that one thing is that you're gonna die. (Not everyone does have their own mind. Some don't have a mind at all)

But, I admire your creativity.

Originally posted by akilles
Umm, would it have anything to do with YOU posting the link to the site yourself, and not actually reading anything?

What are you talking about?

Yeah, because otherwise you would have brought up Paul Bernardo yourself!

I didn't know anything about it until you brought it up, what's your point?

Massive miscarriage of justice in New Zealand, massive miscarriage of justice in Canada. Similarity: Freemasons.

So you guys think if you point it out that it means Fellow Brother Freemasons were not in any way involved?

No. There are bad apples in all organizations, and Freemasonry is no exception.

Get real. Peter Renzland did not inquire if Paul Bernardo was kicked out. He MADE SURE Paul Bernardo was kicked out, because people were on the trail, and they needed to save face.

I think he was kicked out for unMasonic conduct. It's just too bad that's all the Masons could do about it.

Again, I have never said ALL Freemasons are bad, just that Masons aren't willing to accept that ANY could be bad.

I've never heard any Freemason say he was not willing to accept that. Quite the contrary.

[edit on 2/13/05 by The Axeman]

It was right on the page you posted a link to, thats what I was saying. You DIDN'T read the page you posted a link to.

Otherwise you would have mentioned Paul Bernardo.

Any way, moving along, if there are bad apples in any organization and Freemasonry wishes to get rid of them, why haven't they released the names of the other Brothers involved in the Investigation aspect of the case?

Yes, you heard right. That was no blind accusation. And don't post smilie faces in response, please, I am pretty sure I have seen them all.

Freemasons deny that there could be anyone SELF-INTERESTED in Freemasonry, that would benefit from it, can you say most agree with that statement?

Originally posted by akilles
It was right on the page you posted a link to, thats what I was saying. You DIDN'T read the page you posted a link to.

Otherwise you would have mentioned Paul Bernardo.

Actually I googled what you posted and that's the site that came up. I didn't need to comment because the other gents had already confirmed that the guy was a Mason and had been expelled. I was merely commenting that you were probably getting your info from freemasonrywatch, which is almost certainly true.

Any way, moving along, if there are bad apples in any organization and Freemasonry wishes to get rid of them, why haven't they released the names of the other Brothers involved in the Investigation aspect of the case?

Why should they? What point would it make? They got the guy. Are you asking what cops were in in the investigation and if they were Masons? Who says there were? Freemasonrywatch.org?

Yes, you heard right. That was no blind accusation. And don't post smilie faces in response, please, I am pretty sure I have seen them all.

Freemasons deny that there could be anyone SELF-INTERESTED in Freemasonry, that would benefit from it, can you say most agree with that statement?

No, they don't. They say that sometimes, inevitably, there will be people who join for the wrong reasons, and that they are usually weeded out. The Masons have very good and proven methods for doing so, or so I'm told.

[edit on 2/13/05 by The Axeman]

every man would still be required to be a devout Catholic paying his tithe to the church upheld by secular and spiritual law and a punishible offence to those who dared stray. We might thank the Masons that we have more freedom and choices today than they did in the1400's.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by TgSoe]

Any then how do you explain the members of Secret Societies that were killing people namely the Jesuits?

Do we have them to thank that California was 'opened up for colonization'?

You have entirely thrown out the EVER-PRESENT connection between those with wealth and power, and secret societies. The Royals of Europe as they have dubbed themselves, and had us calling them ever since.

Create the problem, the overbearing Roman Catholic Church, offer the solution, secret societies, and all of a sudden, we 'need' secret societies, and are stuck with them ever since?

"Every man would still be required to be a devout Catholic paying his tithe to the church upheld by secular and spiritual law and a punishible offence to those who dared stray. We might thank the Masons that we have more freedom and choices today than they did in the1400's."

Any then how do you explain the members of Secret Societies that were killing people namely the Jesuits?

Do we have them to thank that California was 'opened up for colonization'?

You have entirely thrown out the EVER-PRESENT connection between those with wealth and power, and secret societies. The Royals of Europe as they have dubbed themselves, and had us calling them ever since.

Create the problem, the overbearing Roman Catholic Church, offer the solution, secret societies, and all of a sudden, we 'need' secret societies, and are stuck with them ever since?

I think it is much too convenient that ALL secrets from the Middle Ages have been justified by saying "No, it wasn't hidden from the ordinary people, just from the Church, honest"
"Know thyself, for the Kingdom of God is in the Brotherhood."