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Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

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posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Because over a third of our population is legally armed and none of them committed a crime.

Correlation does not equal causation. A tool cannot be the cause of a problem that involves the psychology and unpredictability of the human condition.

That said, I have written at length as a gun owner about the reforms most gun owners ACTUALLY want to see. But you want to try to browbeat and pigeonhole gun owners into taking a position that is antithetical to the exercise of our rights.

You do this while possessing as little knowledge as possible on how guns are handled in the US.

Why the hell should ANYONE listen to you?


The statist conceit that only government regulation and coercion can halt the problem, is itself a problem. It isn't government regulation and coercion that stops a person from slaughtering innocent people.




posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Fine.

You want to amend the constitution, do it the way it's supposed to be done. Put it before the people, and let them decide.

But that, in all likelihood, would result in something you wouldn't like. Utter defeat of the proposed change. So, naturally, few of the anti-2nd's are willing to take that chance. Instead, they'd rather do it through other means.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Fine.

You want to amend the constitution, do it the way it's supposed to be done. Put it before the people, and let them decide.

But that, in all likelihood, would result in something you wouldn't like. Utter defeat of the proposed change. So, naturally, few of the anti-2nd's are willing to take that chance. Instead, they'd rather do it through other means.


And that is were I am saying these people have blood on their hands.

They would rather have a school shooting every few months like this so they can keep their own guns rather than have the laws changed, it’s so selfish it’s disgusting



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 05:29 PM
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America is one of the last civilized Nations on earth that puts the power of the right to self protection into the hands of the civilian. What I'm not getting is why people in other countries care what America does. These are the laws here, you have your own laws.

Most people aren't crazy gun slinging lunatics, and no one wants to walk down the street at 2am without the legalized protection of their choice, it's their right. Society seems to be lacking common sense, so protecting yourself makes a lot of sense no?



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin


it’s so selfish it’s disgusting


This is why people are angry about the discussion. These terms to thrown around casually, while i get pointed out that i seem aggressive on the subject. LOL.

This is what happens after decades of rights encroachments, all that is being asked is to look at other solutions. Continuing to chip away at ownership rights seems to have had the opposite effect, based on the several gun laws (i believe 4) enacted since 1990 (when the school shootings started).

Im not saying this correlation implies causation. I am saying that when you keep hunting and coming up empty handed, maybe you should hunt differently.
edit on 2/15/2018 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/15/2018 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: amazing




We have a serious mental health issue in the US. That's problem number


1 in 4 people in the uk will at some point in their lifetime have a mental illness.

Mental health services have had funding cuts.

We medicate them just the same as in the States.

The difference lets face it is that in the UK we don't all own guns.

for me the mental health thing is definitely a factor however pretending its the biggest factor contributing to these mass killings is for me, only adding to the stigma of mental health.


But you can't just blame the guns. Every mass killing in history has been done by someome with mental health problems. That's a clear fact. Suicide bombers are mentally ill. That's a fact. Mental health should be issue one. Gun laws need to be tightened up for sure, but that's number two on the list.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

...and your ignoring the real issue, and instead blaming an inanimate object is what...wisdom?

How about, instead of trying to convince me that I'm somehow to blame--give up, lost cause--we discuss the issue of mental illness, and how this guy slipped through all the cracks in the system?

As I've said in many another thread, that'd be the way to actually go, but that's too much work for some. So, instead, blame, or attempt to, folks who've done exactly nothing wrong.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 10:30 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

More laws stronger laws because of what some are convinced
to be people who obviously have no regard for the law.

I may not have the same confidence in what some
believe is the truth of any narrative forwarded by media
sources as they do.

For anyone to believe they can form an opinion on a
political issue of such great importance? Like the right to
self defense? The right of a man to protect his family?
Which is the mans responsibility in regards to the
traditional american family. I think it's absurd for anyone
to have so much faith in what they've been told that
they actually think they know something. Let alone
cast judgements.

Sorry no more pain in the ass laws against that pal.
edit on Rpm21518v40201800000005 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You are such a jerk. The audacity of you to say people have blood on their hands.

This is why I take it up a notch with people of like minds to yours. Screw the enablers too.

Im not even reading your posts or threads anymore. Opportunistic and feeble crap non stop.

This hardline approach that defines a certain political ideology as of late really shuts down dialogue.

Ultimately I hope you dont get what you want and that it sucks for you beyond any ones wildest imagination.

EDIT TO ADD:
I got a warning for calling a certain POLITICAL entity "corrupt bastards."

You guys call regular people murderers by association and its "intellectual discourse".

Whatever. Im not changing anytime soon nor have I seen valid reasons to do so. All the contrary.


edit on 2 15 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

BULL****!

Ok. I'm going to share something here from the horrors of my past.

I was 15. I had a man who would not give up on chasing me, stalking me (we didn't have that word back then) and eventually he raped me.

During the 'attack' he shot me, with a .22 through a pillow I had held over my naked body. (He'd snuck into the farmhouse I was living in).

He raped me.

Brutally.

Do you think after even being shot I was put off guns for protection?

*F* NO!

I went right out and asked a neighbor to 'teach me' (we didn't have firearms classes them) and I've carried from then until now.

And I will tell you something you can bet on.

If ANYONE tries to harm the ones I love, tries to hurt my neighbors or myself? I WILL SHOOT YOU DEAD.



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Well I don’t really care what you think of my views.

I think you are a jerk for defending the same laws that enabled this latest scumbag to go out and by his tools of death so you can selfishly own your own.



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:19 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: tadaman

Well I don’t really care what you think of my views.

I think you are a jerk for defending the same laws that enabled this latest scumbag to go out and by his tools of death so you can selfishly own your own.


Damn straight.

I feel the same about vehicle owners!

Oh, oh! And those whom use food utensils!

Don't forget about anyone right-handed!



Seriously,



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: JinMI

Ahhh so I should stop voicing my views and defend ping myself when called a jerk because someone does not like my views.

No.



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

First off, you made the claim everyone who obeys the laws and supports the constitution is implicit in those who don't. So you don't get to play the victim. You put this thread in the mudpit because of the very same reason.

Care to address the argument I actually made instead of building one out of thin air?



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:31 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




I think you are a jerk for defending the same laws that enabled this latest scumbag to go out and by his tools of death so you can selfishly own your own.


If redundant school shootings by W/E type of wackos. And accidental
gun deaths are the price of being adequate in the protection of
family and property? Who's to say we aren't willing to pay that price?

Automobile teen related deaths in america aren't even comparable
to firearm related teen deaths. But a thread on more car laws would
suck just as bad. Not a good idea.

A real man has the very best of the methods available to him for
protecting his family. And that right should never be inhibited
any amount of pencil pushing. If that's selfish to you.

I don't care.
edit on Ram21618v40201800000044 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:54 AM
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a reply to: JinMI

I think there is a massive kneee jerk reaction to the title.

What I am saying is that guns are a problem. Something need to change but that will not happen until, there is political will. The only way you will ever see the political will is if the electorate start demanding change that brings about sensible changes to gun laws. Until, then everyone who refuses to act is in some small part responsible.

For example, you can buy a gun at 18 yet you have to be 21to buy booze! A simple change in the law that isn’t about grabbing your guns that could potentially have prevented this latest attack. Sure no law is ever going to prevent crime 100% of the time, murder is illegal but people still do it but you wouldn’t say that because of that we should just abandon laws because some people break them anyway.

I think this point has been lost because some people read the title see that alien in a suit avatar and then don’t even bother to read the OP. I make no apologies for the title of this thread, it’s just a title, something to get your attention, but it’s not the entire oppening post.

So many people have missed the point I think because they have had knee jerk reactions just like when this thread was originally posted a few months ago.



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 01:58 AM
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Stupid thread fails at its stupid title.

Name a second amendment supporter responsible for this action... Oh wait, there's only one name. Nikolas Cruz. How about we blame Nikolas Cruz instead of second amendment supports like myself. FYI... my 5.56 rifle has a 99.9% percent chance of never being used in a crime.


Liberal scum...
edit on 2/16/2018 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

Read the above post and try to articulate yourself without your silly insults, they do not add to the debate and I don’t care what you think of me because you know nothing about me



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I laid hands on my first firearm at the age of 6. Folks brought up in hunting families also likely have. Rifle hunting starts at 14. Bow hunting at age 12.




I think this point has been lost because some people read the title see that alien in a suit avatar and then don’t even bother to read the OP. I make no apologies for the title of this thread, it’s just a title, something to get your attention, but it’s not the entire oppening post.


Or, now hear me out on this. Your premise (and subsequent thread title) is actually the fallacy. That you can't hope to punish millions of law abiding citizens for the actions of a few and tangentially infringe on a constitutional amendment.

It's very possible, and IMO way more credible that this OP is the kneejerk and not what you describe.



posted on Feb, 16 2018 @ 02:02 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: EternalSolace

Read the above post and try to articulate yourself without your silly insults, they do not add to the debate and I don’t care what you think of me because you know nothing about me


How's this for articulation...

Blame the perpetrator instead of the method used.




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