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Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

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posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Your definition of sensible, and mine, are two differing things, and will remain such.




posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



I think one change would benefit all of us: remove all firearms restrictions.


So, all those high school students should or could be armed? A fourteen year old who is pissed because the coach put him off the team, or another guy was flirting with his girlfriend, can go buy a gun?

Drunks in bars can be armed?

Shopping from state to state and creating a vast arsenal of auto matic weapons, and take them on the top floor of a hotel room?

Someone known to be violent and have previous charges and felonies can get weapons?

And you said "sensible gun laws" is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever heard?
Maybe you should listen to yourself, because what you suggest has far surpassed ridiculous.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Your definition of sensible, and mine, are two differing things, and will remain such.


So to you it would not be sensible then to change gun laws to make it harder for some guy like this to go out and shoot a bunch of kids.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I make that point because you used a term and I want to make sure you know what that term actually is before you proceed to lecture on firearms.

Flamethrowers are actually farm tools, among a couple of other industries. But since no one has used a flamethrower im going to just ignore it as hyperbole. But will point out that the only 2 states you cannot own one in is nanny state California, and Maryland. Anywhere where farmers and ranchers actually have any mass of votes, you won't see that kind of stupidity.

How would you go about regulating ammo? Out of curiosity? Because im here to tell you that any effort to do so will simply not work. You can manufacture your own ammo either mechanically, or by printing it. How do you regulate that?



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Your definition of sensible, and mine, are two differing things, and will remain such.


So to you it would not be sensible then to change gun laws to make it harder for some guy like this to go out and shoot a bunch of kids.



Please expand. What law, or group of laws, would keep some guy like this from going out to shoot a bunch of kids? Is murder not illegal?

Better not let the lunatics know that a slingshot and a steel ball will kill people, and will do so silently.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Like I say I do not pretend to know the answers, I do not pretend to know specifically what laws and regulations should be passed.

All I am saying is that I think it is time that there was a change in gun laws because the current status-quo is making these kind of horrible shootings a monthly occurrence.

Australia managed to change so can America, the biggest obstacle is the absence of political will and the only way you will ever see the political will to bring about real change in American gun laws and culture is when people like you stand up to politicians and gun lobbies.

That is why I say you have blood on your hands.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



I think one change would benefit all of us: remove all firearms restrictions.


So, all those high school students should or could be armed? A fourteen year old who is pissed because the coach put him off the team, or another guy was flirting with his girlfriend, can go buy a gun?


Does a 14 year old meet the 2nd amendment requirement to own a gun? I do not think so.



Drunks in bars can be armed?


Those are state laws, not federal laws. I don't see how that applies here. BTW, you can do just that in 4 states. Its such a huge problem you didn't even know about it.




Shopping from state to state and creating a vast arsenal of auto matic weapons, and take them on the top floor of a hotel room?


Wow....so our current laws stopped that from happening?



Someone known to be violent and have previous charges and felonies can get weapons?


Are you telling me that felons don't have guns and use them in crimes on a daily basis?



And you said "sensible gun laws" is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever heard?
Maybe you should listen to yourself, because what you suggest has far surpassed ridiculous.



It may have....but you didn't show that here. You comingled federal and state laws, while ignoring that the things you think guns laws prevent aren't actually even laws in all states. While at the same time ignoring the very basis of gun rights, and how it lays out the right to begin with (over 18 only).



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Like I say I do not pretend to know the answers, I do not pretend to know specifically what laws and regulations should be passed.

All I am saying is that I think it is time that there was a change in gun laws because the current status-quo is making these kind of horrible shootings a monthly occurrence.

Australia managed to change so can America, the biggest obstacle is the absence of political will and the only way you will ever see the political will to bring about real change in American gun laws and culture is when people like you stand up to politicians and gun lobbies.

That is why I say you have blood on your hands.



Im saying that damn near 100 years of new gun laws didn't prevent this from happening. In fact, prior to the flurry of legislative action in the early 90's, we didn't even have this problem.

Australia is not America. I can't even begin to list the differences....but to start, the majority of Austrialia is barely even habitable. So there isn't nearly as much rural life going on, far away from emergency services. Nor do you have a physical border with any nation, let alone Mexico (and the utter disaster of nations that lie to its south).



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I make that point because you used a term and I want to make sure you know what that term actually is before you proceed to lecture on firearms.

Flamethrowers are actually farm tools, among a couple of other industries. But since no one has used a flamethrower im going to just ignore it as hyperbole. But will point out that the only 2 states you cannot own one in is nanny state California, and Maryland. Anywhere where farmers and ranchers actually have any mass of votes, you won't see that kind of stupidity.

How would you go about regulating ammo? Out of curiosity? Because im here to tell you that any effort to do so will simply not work. You can manufacture your own ammo either mechanically, or by printing it. How do you regulate that?



Please don't presume I'm suggesting "sensible gun laws" would stop all crimes. It wouldn't. As long as some people want to kill, they will, even if it means creating their own weapons. The middle easterners, case in point. They make dirty bombs, those improvised weapons, use their cars, whatever, knives and stones.

But it's important to control what we can, and what we see in our country, are mostly NOT knives, not cars, and not improvised weapons. It's guns. Not even guns they must stop and reload. Automatic weapons, which we can put a lid on.

In the future, the country will have gun control. It's coming sooner or later, because it must. Maybe the lobbyist for the NRA will lose a loved one in one of these mass murders, or eventually Congress will have had enough.
In any case, people opposing it now are on the wrong side of history, and the wrong side of the future.

We've got a really really big problem, and what we are doing about it is NOTHING.

edit on 2/15/2018 by angeldoll because: added a sentence



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll

You quoted the wrong post, if you were wanting my reply to you.

The reason why nothing happens: every time a school gets shot up, the ONLY conversation that is had is "how can we control guns more".

Why only evaluate a single solution? At what point do the gun control folks ask themselves what has changed? This is a relatively new problem (mid 90's)...so what changed?

If you aren't evaluating that question, then you are simply looking to put a band aid on the issue. Before we talk about removing peoples rights, I think we need to explore other options. But we don't.

Ill add: automatic weapons are illegal. Unless you have the federal permit. They are not what is used. Im unsure why you point to them specifically.
edit on 2/15/2018 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:52 PM
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We have a serious mental health issue in the US. That's problem number 1. Problem number 2 is that we can't even have a discussion about what "sensible gun laws are". We should be able to have that conversation without it turning into all guns are evil/and all laws are bad laws. That's retarded.

Issue number 1 is most important. We should have better screenings and better ways to deal with people with extreme mental illness. This brings up issue number 3. Extreme media doesn't effect most of us. It can brainwash us to a certain extent as most people on ATS are brainwashed by MSNBC/FOX News and Talk Radio but most of you guys won't take it to the next level and kill anyone. Those with serious mental health issues might. We need to have free speech. That's important, but I think we need to temper it.

Two good examples are the extreme views of Trump and Obama. if you only listen to the news both of them are destroying this country or have destroyed the country, although in different ways. We know this is false because, Obama is no longer president and He in fact did not destroy the country. My house is still here.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: amazing




We have a serious mental health issue in the US. That's problem number


1 in 4 people in the uk will at some point in their lifetime have a mental illness.

Mental health services have had funding cuts.

We medicate them just the same as in the States.

The difference lets face it is that in the UK we don't all own guns.

for me the mental health thing is definitely a factor however pretending its the biggest factor contributing to these mass killings is for me, only adding to the stigma of mental health.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

...and you think that more laws that infringe upon Constitutionally protected rights is going to solve that? I really wish the world worked that way, I really do. It'd be so much easier.

How about, instead, we fix what's really broken, which is the mental health care in this country? Hmm? In the long run that'd go much further in preventing these sorts of atrocities.

Why were all the warning signs ignored? There were warning signs in plenty, that could have/should have warranted a psych-hold of at least 24 hours. Not sure what Florida statutes are concerning that sort of thing.

Instead, you're willing, even eager, to violate my rights for something I neither did, nor support.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: seagull

Its called a amendment it can be amended again.

There are already gun laws in place so your point to see seems kind of mute

and I have already covered my views on mental health and don't really want to get into them again.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Use of logical fallacies, and then defending their use as a legitimate argument while ignoring the details to suit your view.

Did you know that it is possible to be against gun ownership and NOT do those things?



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Whatever dude.

There is a thread right now on ATS about where to buy a bulletproof backpack for your kids.

Tell me again about how the second amendment isn't a problem?



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: seagull

Its called a amendment it can be amended again.

There are already gun laws in place so your point to see seems kind of mute

and I have already covered my views on mental health and don't really want to get into them again.


AMERICA is still using Constitution 1.0

Western Europe has enacted Constitution(s) 2.x & 3.x

Note: The X means subject to revisions.

Americans are lead to believe that the Constitution is like Moses's STONE TABLETS and can't be changed.

There ARE guns in Europe. There ARE mentally ill people in Europe. There ARE violent movies, video games ect in Europe.

What is different?

The number of guns and gun owners.



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Because over a third of our population is legally armed and none of them committed a crime.

Correlation does not equal causation. A tool cannot be the cause of a problem that involves the psychology and unpredictability of the human condition.

That said, I have written at length as a gun owner about the reforms most gun owners ACTUALLY want to see. But you want to try to browbeat and pigeonhole gun owners into taking a position that is antithetical to the exercise of our rights.

You do this while possessing as little knowledge as possible on how guns are handled in the US.

Why the hell should ANYONE listen to you?



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

So what changes would you have made to safe guard people from mass shootings?



posted on Feb, 15 2018 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: projectvxn

Whatever dude.

There is a thread right now on ATS about where to buy a bulletproof backpack for your kids.

Tell me again about how the second amendment isn't a problem?


It's pretty CLEAR that American's aren't mature and responsible enough to own all the guns they DO HAVE.

Maybe those who love, love, love their guns need to work HARDER to self-police and clean up American society...?




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