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Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:18 AM
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a reply to: scrounger

He's not a yank mate - he's a pom.




posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

And look at this.

top5ofanything.com...

At least triple.

Oh, and look at how many multiple shootings there has been in American in 2017.

www.news.com.au...



Another day, another mass shooting in the US. The year 2017 is 309 days old. In that time there have been 307 mass shootings, according to the Gun Violence Archive, which describes a mass shooting as four or more individuals being shot or killed in the same general time and location.

Dig deeper into the statistics, and the figures just get worse.

There have been more than 13,000 gun deaths in America this year, with the country on track to have an increased number of gun deaths for the fourth straight year.


13000 gun deaths - there have been smaller wars.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: bgerbger

the point i'm making dead or injured is dead or injured no matter what weapon is used. if you take away guns a mentally deranged person, a jihadi, a criminal, that wants to commit a mass attack will find a way to do it.

it's not the tool used it's the individual.


edit on 6-11-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:30 AM
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a reply to: bgerbger

13000 is about 0.0039393939393939% of our population, not quite the epidemic it looks like when you use different numbers huh.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: bgerbger

13000 is about 0.0039393939393939% of our population, not quite the epidemic it looks like when you use different numbers huh.



It is still 13000 people though, just using numbers does not change that does it.

If I put a kilo in weight on that could be bad but if I say hell it's only a thousandth of a ton it sounds far less worrying.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

yea and a large part of that 13000 occurs in a handful of areas, which is another aspect of the problem that we do not address in the rush to "fix" things.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:37 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Liberty has risks associated with it.

If you want liberty, you have to be prepared to take the risks that come with it. If you want the freedom to believe what you will, without the ability of any other person to prevent your worship, or chastise you for a lack of faith, then you have to take the risks associated therewith. If you want to be able to vote according to your beliefs, not someone elses, then you have to be prepared to take risks. If you want to live in a country which is governed for and by the people, you have to be prepared to take the risks associated with that, and be responsible enough to prepare to correct it, when that government is in error, or deliberately sells itself to powers outside the citizenry.

You cannot have liberty if you are safe, because if the government made you safe, that means it controlled everyone and everything. The firearm is supposed to be your emergency hammer, your seatbelt knife, your parachute, the thing that keeps you safe when everything else is going to hell.

I prefer blades over bullets, so for me, were I legally permitted to carry one, my route to safety would be a short sword, or pair of long dirks, modified to not only thrust effectively, but cut flesh with nary a whisper on their edges.

But no matter ones preference when it comes to the tools in question, the fact is that people are expecting to be safer with gun control than without it. But that simply is not an accurate reflection of what will happen. I live in a country where, yes, there are fewer gun deaths, per x number of people. But there are also threats in my country which, cannot be countered without either training, or having lived a very harrowing, disturbing, and danger ridden life. In some respects, I am " lucky", because life has hardened me, and cut my reflex time down to a gnats heartbeat, made me aware that I need to be absolutely aware of my surroundings at all times, absolutely ready to respond to any kind of physical threat effectively and without hesitation. I am also lucky that I am male, naturally thick of chest, sturdy and at present still young and healthy enough to respond effectively to a physical threat.

But I am unlucky, because I live in a country where my only recourse, if faced with a weapon, is to attempt to disarm the person who wields it manually. I am unlucky, because if I am successful, there is a chance that injury to the criminal who pulled a weapon on me, could result in my prosecution. I am unlucky because the government of my country does not fear the population, the unarmed, powerless, defenceless, population, in which only 1.84 percent or so of the population have ANY armament at all, against the possibility that our government, which HAS been destroying our country for decades upon decades, not to mention other places around the world, will finally be honest about its intentions toward the people, and simply terminate sectors of the population for expediencies sake...

Basically, if you think the right to bear arms is stupid, then you are welcome to, but you are not welcome to make that decision on behalf of anyone else.


edit on 6-11-2017 by TrueBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: nonspecific

yea and a large part of that 13000 occurs in a handful of areas, which is another aspect of the problem that we do not address in the rush to "fix" things.


I will agree that you are correct on that, I imagine some areas have almost zero.

A bit like the fact that most accidents caused by falling of a toilet occour in a bathroom.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: bgerbger

Those stars reference facebook..read the fine print at the bottom.

The highest source I can find shows 9600 gun deaths and that includes all of 2017. Accidental, suicude, police, crime and self defense etc.

Now to the op,

The second amendment is a right.

Mg



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

The sad thing about it all is most gun owners are open to the idea of an actual discussion, but to often as of late the democrats and people like the OP lead off with you have blood on your hands and that tells me and many more like me that they are not interested in a discussion they are only interested in me saying I am wrong and thanking them for saving me.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Actually, only two people have blood on their hands, the shooter and the person who sold him the firearm. If the shooter recd a BCD and served 12 months for spouse/child abuse, I believe he should have been denied the right to own a firearm.

In Pennsylvania, I can privately sell a long gun but it is my responsibility to ensure the buyer is legally able to own said firearm. If I have doubts, then I should either not sell or go thru an FFA. If I sell to a convicted felon, knowingly or unknowingly, then I can be arrested.

That said, we can not compare the USA with UK or Australia. The US is not an island, our population is much larger, our country is much larger and we have a border with Mexico.

If a law was created tomorrow to ban AR type firearms, it would most likely have a caveat to grandfather current ARs which would increase sells of ARs.

I keep hearing about common sense laws needed to stop mass shootings but I never hear about the actual laws that would stop a mass shooter. The other problem is that, by their very nature, a criminal doesn't obey laws.

So, the question isn't about more laws or banning ARs, It's about what is driving these individuals to commit these heinous acts. We always blame the tool but never blame the criminal. You need to understand the why before you can figure out the how to stop the act....in my opinion.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: Feltrick

A general court martial is considered a felony in the civilian world so he should not have been able to legally buy a firearm.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:54 AM
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No, psychotic people with no value for life have blood on their hands. You can kill with anything. ANYTHING. You can kill with a vehicle. It's been done. Recently.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:58 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: nonspecific

The sad thing about it all is most gun owners are open to the idea of an actual discussion, but to often as of late the democrats and people like the OP lead off with you have blood on your hands and that tells me and many more like me that they are not interested in a discussion they are only interested in me saying I am wrong and thanking them for saving me.


A point I’ve made time and again on ATS.

There’s a large portion of gun owners that don’t have a problem with things like universal background checks and other less extreme ideas. But the gun grabbers always start their “conversation” out with telling anybody who owns guns that “dead children are literally your fault!!11!2”

Okay well you can get stuffed then.

Nobody is interested in having a conversation with a person that begins their tirade that way. To me, one of the more or less quiet gun owners, gun grabbers that start out like that sound just as bat# crazy as the gun nuts that want to own howitzers.

One side wants to color their ideas as “sensible gun control” yet they come out going nuclear with their tactics. Shuts down conversation with the very folks they should be working with the most.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I no longer have time to read through each and every response on these threads, so forgive me if someone has already pointed this out.

You keep talking about "political will" as if our "rulers" should disarm us against our own will. Rabid authoritarians have blood on their hands.

Stop equating the evil acts of some with the legal, and moral acts of the majority. Your thought process is almost as flawed as your attempt at logic in this thread. My firearms have not, and will not participate in taking human life unless absolutely necessary - but when it's absolutely necessary they are there for that purpose.

If you want to "fix" these problems lets get people off all of the drugs, violent media (games and movies), and welfare. Some accountability and being forced to live in the real world with the rest of us would do this world some good.


edit on 6-11-2017 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:59 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit
Have you watched the documentary 'Bowling for Columbine'?
Did I imply at any time in this thread that the right to bear arms is stupid?
edit on 6-11-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 06:59 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

Exactly, there is a law, currently on the books, designed to stop individuals like him from owning firearms. Again I say, criminals do not obey laws.

Whoever sold that guy the firearm should be prosecuted.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Many moons ago, when it was relevant to current events, rather than ancient history in the grand scheme of things, yes.

What is your point?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: EternalShadow


Is Piers Morgan your Dad or something? He made similar arguments trying to broad brush all Americans for the actions of certain individuals...as if everyone in America is on the hook if I'm late to work. Same logic, except he used guilt trips to try and swing innocent Americans into believing its all their fault. He was summarily shutdown in short order.

You think you can try and smear it in our faces AGAIN??? Or are you just needing attention? Are you envious??? I'm serious.. all you do is dog us Americans out here on ATS. Our values, traditions, politics, etc...

What is it that is truly bothering you? And more importantly, how does it PERSONALLY effect you?


Now you now how most Muslims feel. Why haven't you spoken out against these atrocities louder? Why haven't you turned in suspicious violent Americans? Why can't you clean your neighborhood of violent American gun owners?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 07:09 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit
What was the point of your previous reply to me? It was very long and I may have missed the point.
It seems that you think that I want guns banned - my intention is to make people see that this is not gun issue but a lack of care.


edit on 6-11-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




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