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Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

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posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: jacquesdarippa

Here's another #%$&@ argument for gun ownership. Food for thought, what if we hadn't?


Fifteen years had passed since VJ Day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in each other.
Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland U.S. forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander's face as he frankly answered the question.
'You are right,' he told the Americans. 'We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand.'




posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: jacquesdarippa

Yeah, no.


Looking only at gun deaths is a dishonest practice. You should be looking at the total murder rate (which excludes suicides, justified homicide, accidents) which we rank 5.4/100,000 people (extremely good..ranked: 52nd). Our gun deaths may be "higher" but that number is relative, and when looked at along side every other cause of death you see it is extremely minor. Heart disease, cancer, auto accidents, texting/driving, DUI, drug overdose, starvation, etc are all far more likely to kill you than a gun every would.

Any stat can make something appear a certain way when not taken in context with all other stats available. Look at all murders vs. just gun deaths (deaths = very broad, ambiguous term. This number even mistakenly includes defensive/justified homicide, and somewhat less offensively contains accidents & suicides.

We rank 52nd for total murders - a far cry from the major problem you are claiming.
edit on 11/8/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 09:32 PM
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I really don't see what the big deal about those Japan rules are, they all seem like common sense laws. How many mass shootings have they had ?



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: mtnshredder

Fake propaganda by the NRA and other gun advocates and does not help your cause.



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: jacquesdarippa

How many mass shootings have good guys with guns stopped? Many. How many were private citizens?

See for yourself: www.foxnews.com...



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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edit on 8 11 17 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 10:27 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

If your link was an attempt to prove guns do more good than they do harm, well those numbers are just pathetic compared to mass shootings.



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: jacquesdarippa

Those were just mass shootings stopped. Those do not account for each and every time a gun saved a Citizen/police officer's life and preventing them from becoming a criminal's victim.

It is nonsense to look at mass shooting numbers alone. Compare the US in its total rate of murders and you'll see we are just fine. Murders are 5.4/100,000 people which is ranked 52nd and very low especially compared to many nations with harsh gun control.

Take a look at the facts instead of dismissing them outright. That a few criminals will break the law (they always will, with whatever weapon they can make/find) is of no consequence to law abiding armed Citizens. We rely on guns to protect ourselves and our communities, as we've seen so many times.

It is your right to hate on the second amendment as much as you want. But at the end of another day, its still here and I'll rest easy knowing it will be here tomorrow as well.



posted on Nov, 8 2017 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: jacquesdarippa

No, no they are not.

Speaking from my own experience with stopping a would-be criminal type--a burglar, in this case...

I didn't have to shoot him, or at him, I merely had to let him know I had one. He left...rapidly. Leaving behind the sledge hammer he was going to break my door down with. Now imagine what might have been had he come through the door with that hammer in hand, and found me there, unarmed. Several scenarios come to mind--none of them pleasant, all of them involving a lot of pain for someone, maybe me, maybe him.

I didn't report it, as by the time the sheriff deputies would have got there (almost twenty minute response time) he would have been long gone anyway.

I have friends who've had much the same experiences. So, it seems that the information is incomplete, to say the least. Hard to make a judgement call off of incomplete information, isn't it?



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 12:06 AM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: jacquesdarippa

No, no they are not.

Speaking from my own experience with stopping a would-be criminal type--a burglar, in this case...

I didn't have to shoot him, or at him, I merely had to let him know I had one. He left...rapidly. Leaving behind the sledge hammer he was going to break my door down with. Now imagine what might have been had he come through the door with that hammer in hand, and found me there, unarmed. Several scenarios come to mind--none of them pleasant, all of them involving a lot of pain for someone, maybe me, maybe him.

I didn't report it, as by the time the sheriff deputies would have got there (almost twenty minute response time) he would have been long gone anyway.

I have friends who've had much the same experiences. So, it seems that the information is incomplete, to say the least. Hard to make a judgement call off of incomplete information, isn't it?


This is especially important because no statistics exist for situations like this!

Here we have an example where justified homicide OR murder was prevented without even having to actually fire the weapon. (depending on which scenario seagull presented would've occurred - and who was on the receiving end of that pain). No stats of these incidents are kept, especially since the attempted crime wasn't reported to police.

Do you have any idea how many people with situations like this are out there? People who are only here today because they thought ahead and were armed when it counted.

This thread contains many such examples, and youtube has even more. Just search for "defensive gun use" and you'll see/hear many examples of a person with a firearm saving lives.



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 12:38 AM
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Politicians who start and endorse wars ,big business ,International Bankers ,Communists ,Marxists have more blood on their hands than the much persecuted NRA ,2ND Amendment Advocates ever will in a billion years ,same leftist Zionist idiotic rhetoric spouting their constant brainwashing ,do gooding secret agendas on the dumb, up and coming, easily conned snow flakes, and other mentally weak people who need and want to be led ,and then will cry like spoilt brats when all their freedom is removed from them ,''why didn't someone do something oh boo hoo '' ,there is just a constant pushing for their NWO ,their New World where they have total control over everything and you, and everything you do and own ,and to achieve the next step ,Private ownership of guns must go first, its their major stumbling block ,after that they can achieve all their goals at gunpoint [at you ] from their animal farm dogs



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 10:52 AM
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originally posted by: JAY1980
A brit talking about gun control?
Rich...
As a male you don't hear me talking about gynecology do you?

Op needs a life...

Maybe you should, you might make your partner happier!!

A Yank worrying about someone's health care other than there own!?!
A Yank commenting about something/someone other than with nationality/religion?!?
A Yank understanding this site isn't American!?!
See what comments like this do, nothing but irritate other posters, we can all stereotype!!!!

What is it with Americans and talking about stuff from around two hundred years ago that has nothing to do with a discussion about tightening gun laws for people with criminal records or mental health issues in the twenty first century?
I think some of you guys have only ever read a watered down history of America and forget there are other countries out there. We get you have the 2nd amendment!!!
So far in this thread posters have blamed Britain for the slave trade, maybe take a look in the mirror as you guys also owned and traded slaves and had segregation till well into in the 20th century with African Americans classed as second class citizens.
Britain got rid of all its firearms which you all seem to love spouting which is just drivel!
I could go on.

Again, this is the WORLD Wide Web not the America Wide Web!! When mass shootings start appearing on news feeds almost weekly should we not be concered? You guys are quick enough to post about Muslims in europe.

edit on 9-11-2017 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-11-2017 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: jacquesdarippa

Here's another #%$&@ argument for gun ownership. Food for thought, what if we hadn't?


Fifteen years had passed since VJ Day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in each other.
Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland U.S. forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander's face as he frankly answered the question.
'You are right,' he told the Americans. 'We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand.'





This line was invented for the movie, "Tora, Tora, Tora." There's no proof that he said anything of the sort. In fact, it's really out of character for him and it's pretty bad from a tactical standpoint since an armed population didn't deter any of their invasions elsewhere.

Source



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: Byrd


Was that population armed to the extent/as large as the US population though?

It is interesting to find out that isn't an accurate quote though. Learn something everyday!




posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Byrd


Was that population armed to the extent/as large as the US population though?

It is interesting to find out that isn't an accurate quote though. Learn something everyday!



Does it matter? Historically, armies have taken down countries with armed populations. A good example is the Native Americans, where organized armies mowed down well-armed civilians (even when they were armed with the same weapons as the military.) Local weaponry is not as effective as a coordinated military. The British had no trouble until Washington and others raised armies because local resistance could easily be countered.

I don't find many books on military tactics that mention a well armed population being effective against armies. If you take a look at the types of military tactics (both offensive and defensive) you find very little about civilians except as adjunct casualties. This is because civilians are far less effective than an organized and equipped military:
(Wikipedia summary of military tactics)



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: jacquesdarippa

I answered this in another thread, but here you go:


Sorry. These don't seem like common sense laws to me. These seem like undue and overcomplicated burdens to artificially and subtly dissuade people from buying a shotgun or air rifle. "Sure, you can buy what barely passes for a weapon, but your life is now an open book and hand in your privacy at the door. K Thx Bye!" 

It makes it very clear that in Japan it is a restricted privilege to own a weapon. They have outlawed most guns and firearm ownership. Not unlike some other countries. 

But in America it is a right, not a privilege. A country founded in revolution. You can't treat a right like a privilege because they are intrinsically different. 

Also, you have other differences. Huge population size differences. Disparity of culture vs other country identities. Individual vs group identity. Huge political divide. Continent with poor border control vs island or country with tight border control. Etc. 

What works for some counties is NOT going to work for others and people are not going to give up their rights to let the government figure it out, since that always results in rights surrended for good. 

Bear this in mind as well: 

With 3D printers becoming cheaper and weapon patterns the internet I wonder how much longer it will be before gun bans mean less in the future. 

Based on that, it is even going to be possible to really ban guns in the future. With the right time and tools people will figure out a way or craft something deadlier. 



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Kurokage

Well what don't you Limey's understand about the OP? You call us gun owners murderers by saying we have "blood on our hands", and expect us to cower in the corner? If I want to start a fight here, I live in Newmarket UK, all I have to do is start a convo about how ignorant it is to exalt a family to God status like your "Royal" family. It is asinine. If the OP were so spazzed out about mass shootings, then why dont they start a daily thread about what is happening in Mexico????


Thing is, Limeys calling us Yanks out is like Germans calling Limeys out.....it just isn't ever going to be OK, for no reason......ever.



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

If you really live in the UK then you will know that very few of us care what anyone has to say about old liz.

And I don’t want to fight anyone.

Why even post that!



edit on 9-11-2017 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Kurokage

Well what don't you Limey's understand about the OP? You call us gun owners murderers by saying we have "blood on our hands", and expect us to cower in the corner?


The OP said you had blood on your hands, I didn't and I'm not expecting anyone to cower in a corner and also some Americans posted about changing the 2nd amendment but a lot of you guys just post the same old stuff about who said something about banning guns when some members said no such thing and that because were British means we shouldn't be posting in the thread.
I'm of the opinion that criminal checks and mental illness checks need to a lot more stringent and would like to learn what you guys think would be good way to go about it, and why is it a "right" for someone with a criminal record or mental health issues to own a firearm, shouldn't that "right" be removed, without someone reminding where I come from or being insulting about firearms which for all they know, I could own in Great Britain.
A lot of the mix up with the royals is that they have no power, which Americans don't seam to understand but they are really just an expensive tourist attraction but thats for another thread!



edit on 9-11-2017 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: lakenheath24

If you really live in the UK then you will know that very few of us care what anyone has to say about old liz.

And I don’t want to fight anyone.

Why even post that!


It is called an analogy. When you post an extremely inflammatory worded OP, what do you expect? Ergo the harshly worded retorts you have received. I take your OP personally, as a great insult. You obviously are unaware of how deep we yanks hold our rights, no matter how flawed they seen to outsiders. YOU may not appreciate Liz and Phill, but let an outsider slag them off and see what happens.



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