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Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:54 AM
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a reply to: RainyState

I think you make some good points in that post.

One of the important things I think to remember is that I (and I think others might agree) believe that guns are a big part of American culture so you are never going to be able to just change this over the course of a few years, this would require a very slow change over a generation to reduce gun numbers and gun violence.

Legislating for stronger gun controls is only one part of the problem but I believe it is a important obstacle that has to be overcome to bring about any real change and a reduction in overall gun deaths.



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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:54 AM
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The shooter already broke a gun control law that should of prevented him from owning a gun (he has a dishonorable discharge from the military), not to mention it is against the law to commit murder. I don’t know what the laws are like where you live, but here in the US the courts already decided that cops are not responsible for an individual’s safety, that responsibility belongs to the individual. Anymore laws will just hinder the law abiding, and as you see those who are willing to break the laws will regardless. But whatever, people like you only see what is best for you and try to enforce your fears on everyone else. Every damn thread dealing with guns, I see you preaching from your soap box down at us dumb Americans, sorry but you are not going to convince anyone.
edit on 6-11-2017 by joemoe because: (no reason given)


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:54 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

the way i understand it he obtained his weapon illegally, and was mentally ill. why should i or others suffer because a mentally ill person broke the law.

no blood on my hands at all.


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:55 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I need my different types of tools for the right job, one gun is not going to fly.


Fair enough.

Like I said however I am not talking about banning guns.



How many more laws do we need?

Murder is already a crime.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:55 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



So before anyone wants to post some knee jerk reaction this title please just read what I have to say.

Ok, read it, so you are saying either give up guns or be burdened with the guilt of not giving them up.

You do realize this isn't the UK or Australia right?

There is no possible way to get all the guns off the streets in the US.

So what do you suggest as a realistic solution to the gun crisis, in the US, a country you aren't from?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:56 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If they couldn't use a gun, they would use IEDs, vehicles, poison, airplanes, knives....

People intent on mass killings will find a way.


If there were true then why is it not happening on the same scale in Europe, Canada or Australia?

Sure I 100% get what you're saying and its a good point but its not applicable to every case of mass shooting in America.

Have you ever seen the documentary 'Bowling for Columbine' - it asks the question you asked - and then goes on to finding out why. It is quite eye opening imo.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:57 AM
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originally posted by: Ahabstar
Two things have come out already. Discharged from the Air Force for domestic abuse. That is two disqualifies to legal gun ownership.

Second, it would seem that a civilian intrupted his shoot by firing on him.


Seems the Second is not the problem here.


Again a fair point.

You make the point that in this instance a gun was used to defend these people.

I would counter that point with saying that although that is commendable, when you look at the statistics there are about 1700 cases were a gun has been used in self defence so far this year but there have also been just as many cases of accidental shooting.

So for every time a person uses gun in self defence, another is potentially some how accidentally shooting someone.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:57 AM
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originally posted by: Ahabstar
Two things have come out already. Discharged from the Air Force for domestic abuse. That is two disqualifies to legal gun ownership.

Second, it would seem that a civilian intrupted his shoot by firing on him.


Seems the Second is not the problem here.


Again a fair point.

You make the point that in this instance a gun was used to defend these people.

I would counter that point with saying that although that is commendable, when you look at the statistics there are about 1700 cases were a gun has been used in self defence so far this year but there have also been just as many cases of accidental shooting.

So for every time a person uses gun in self defence, another is potentially some how accidentally shooting someone.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:58 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

the way i understand it he obtained his weapon illegally, and was mentally ill. why should i or others suffer because a mentally ill person broke the law.

no blood on my hands at all.



So to be clear I am talking about mass shootings in general.

It would be interesting to get more information on how he got his gun however.


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 04:59 AM
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You again? sigh...Same sh**. Different day.


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:02 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don't believe the constitutional authors ever imagined we would cross a line and gun worship. Guns are a thing created by man, it is not a right we were born with, like the right to live.

Tracking how much ammo and military type weapons are being sold to one individual is sensible control, i.e.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:05 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don't believe the constitutional authors ever imagined we would cross a line and gun worship. Guns are a thing created by man, it is not a right we were born with, like the right to live.

Tracking how much ammo and military type weapons are being sold to one individual is sensible control, i.e.


Exactly!


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Military firearms aren't commonly sold to civilians and if they are, they are tracked as you specified.


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:13 AM
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So a guy that broke the law gaining the firearm, is going to be stopped from shooting people by another law?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Britain never had a massive history of this sort of nonsense, even when we had more than a notional right to possess firearms. There WERE incidents, nasty ones, but nothing like in the volume that you would expect from the same period in the United States.

There are examples, of course, which one could no doubt trot out, but they were rarer here than in the US, statistically irrelevant, actual anomalies. You cannot say the same of the American mass shooter, because there has been a history of this stuff going on which dates back to just after WW2. Its more common now than it was, but America always had a greater problem with this sort of nonsense, even when it was perfectly common for a UK household to contain firearms.

This makes me wonder if it is really any damned thing what so ever, to do with the guns.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit




This makes me wonder if it is really any damned thing what so ever, to do with the guns.


Some really good points being made there.

I do not recall guns ever being owned to the same extent as in the US, my dad owned a glock before the ban but I can't remember anyone every owning say a AR-15 type of weapon.

I think when it comes to mass shootings you are right that there is more to it than just the guns but we cannot ignore the fact that guns seem to be the common weapon of choice so as such I think its fair to say that something has to be done about gun control.

Like I keep saying I am not talking about a all out ban


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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I swear to God before I even opened this thread, I knew you authored it!

Is Piers Morgan your Dad or something? He made similar arguments trying to broad brush all Americans for the actions of certain individuals...as if everyone in America is on the hook if I'm late to work. Same logic, except he used guilt trips to try and swing innocent Americans into believing its all their fault. He was summarily shutdown in short order.

You think you can try and smear it in our faces AGAIN??? Or are you just needing attention? Are you envious??? I'm serious.. all you do is dog us Americans out here on ATS. Our values, traditions, politics, etc...

What is it that is truly bothering you? And more importantly, how does it PERSONALLY effect you?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


This makes me wonder if it is really any damned thing what so ever, to do with the guns.

As we've seen worldwide, if people are inclined to kill, unfortunately they will with whatever means they can.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 05:27 AM
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Bull# .
its on the hands of the bastard that did the killing .



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