Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

a reply to: Kryties

Why would I show you something I didn't claim you said? I mean that's a very dramatic response and all, but pretty moot.

A quick google search shows all sorts of results for gun owners/the NRA/republicans/conservatives have blood on their hands. And I'll happily concede that LaPierre was a retard for saying gun-control advocates have blood on their hands.

But I concede that because I recognize it's an asinine statement to make in any sort of way that isn't specific to the person doing the murdering.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: snowspirit
Another thing I'm noticing on the news, is everyone wondering how this shooter got a gun. In Canada, with all our controls and regulations, anyone can still get a gun, easily.

So how is anyone (news media) wondering how he got a gun?

Because (a) it's a valid question, (b) most people don't want to accept the fact that it's easy to purchase firearms under the radar of background checks (illegally), and (c) is helps stoke the fear about current laws not doing enough.

So do we know where the majority of black market firearms are coming from? Is anything bieng done to deal with this or is it too big a market to contain?

What kind of trouble do you get in for selling firearms illegally?

It's all just question question question with me sometimes aint it.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Interesting.

So it is not gun ownership and it is not a lack of availability as such of medical care for those with mental health problems.

I would agree that poor diagnosis and wrongly prescribing medication can make a bad issue a lot worse and would not be suprised to find out that it was a likely culprit in many cases.

Well, to be fair, I'm just one opinion out of 323-million available in the U.S. I stand by my comments, but I would do your own research before taking my comments as gospel.

I feel like you and I generally agree on this issue, though, and that is a good thing...I might mark it on my calendar

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Guns do not Kill People , People Kill People . A Knife , Axe , Bow and Arrow , a Rock , a Stick , or Bare Hands Also Kill People . Your Logic is Flawed .

originally posted by: HorizonFall
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Also there aren't many shootings in Canada because on top of heavily restricted access to firearms our population is but a fraction of yours and on average our culture is more benevolent. We don't glorify war and violence to the degree you do in the US. We're just more peaceful. Though shootings do still happen. Not long ago there was a shooter in Moncton. He killed multiple police officers. New Brunswick is about as dry and unassuming as it gets, so it just goes to show that it can happen anywhere...

This is the crux of the issue. We have a culture problem, not a gun problem. These mass shootings get tons of news coverage, but the vast majority of gun homicides, gang shootings, get next to zero attention. We have a major underlying crime problem that nobody wants to address.

a reply to: nonspecific

In this guys case, he should have been adjudicated for his mental state upon discharge from the Air Force. He appears to be a serial asshole with an axe to grind on anyone within reach of his fists.

I do not think it was in the best interest of the reputation of all involved to do so...but it would have been in the best interest of the public at large.

Its taboo to criticize the military. But in all seriousness...they are a bunch of psychopaths. I don't refer to the soldiers...i mean the brass. The same assholes who do stuff like this:

www.businessinsider.com...

Its reported that a new round of spraying happened recently. It is beyond me why anyone would volunteer for an organization run by psychos willing to do unauthorized testing on them and the public.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Kryties

Why would I show you something I didn't claim you said? I mean that's a very dramatic response and all, but pretty moot.

A quick google search shows all sorts of results for gun owners/the NRA/republicans/conservatives have blood on their hands. And I'll happily concede that LaPierre was a retard for saying gun-control advocates have blood on their hands.

But I concede that because I recognize it's an asinine statement to make in any sort of way that isn't specific to the person doing the murdering.

You brought it up as an example of why people like myself get automatically labelled. I was simply pointing out how utterly ridiculous that reasoning is when people use it to label everyone who disagrees. Its utter hypocrisy. Can you explain why you used that example when I have NEVER said anything like that myself? Why are you trying to compare me to those people?

We need to get rid of " gun free zones " because that is where most of these things happen . people who aren't allowed to own guns will always have them if they want them , and use them in places where they know that there won't be anyone else around with a gun to stop them .
Criminals in states that let law abiding citizens carry guns go to places that don't allow guns to commit their crimes ,.
When you get all of the guns out of the hands of people who aren't allowed to own guns, then you will see the change you are looking for.
Start in Chicago , get all the bad guys to give up the guns ( because law abiding citizens don't have any there ) and watch what happens to the crime rate.
The blood is on criminals hands...PERIOD

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The funny thing is, I think that these 'renegotiators' forget who holds the pen concerning these things. Trump, for better or worse, is a tough negotiator.

I'd love to see them try on this topic...they may end up with things being repealed instead.

5 years ago Trump was a Democrat from one of the more profound gun control cities in the US. I trust him as far as I can throw him. He's a big man, so that ain't very far.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: snowspirit
Another thing I'm noticing on the news, is everyone wondering how this shooter got a gun. In Canada, with all our controls and regulations, anyone can still get a gun, easily.

So how is anyone (news media) wondering how he got a gun?

Because (a) it's a valid question, (b) most people don't want to accept the fact that it's easy to purchase firearms under the radar of background checks (illegally), and (c) is helps stoke the fear about current laws not doing enough.

So do we know where the majority of black market firearms are coming from? Is anything bieng done to deal with this or is it too big a market to contain?

What kind of trouble do you get in for selling firearms illegally?

It's all just question question question with me sometimes aint it.

About half of it comes from straw purchases. For those of you who don't know, this means that someone who wouldn't pass a background check (like the Texas church shooter) gets a friend or relative to buy a gun for him. This is already illegal. I personally think the penalties need to be higher. That's one kind of gun control I can support.

Look folks, it's no accident that the left is attacking the 1st and 2nd amendments so furiously......

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Kryties

Why would I show you something I didn't claim you said? I mean that's a very dramatic response and all, but pretty moot.

A quick google search shows all sorts of results for gun owners/the NRA/republicans/conservatives have blood on their hands. And I'll happily concede that LaPierre was a retard for saying gun-control advocates have blood on their hands.

But I concede that because I recognize it's an asinine statement to make in any sort of way that isn't specific to the person doing the murdering.

You brought it up as an example of why people like myself get automatically labelled. I was simply pointing out how utterly ridiculous that reasoning is when people use it to label everyone who disagrees. Its utter hypocrisy. Can you explain why you used that example when I have NEVER said anything like that myself? Why are you trying to compare me to those people?

Because you are posting in a thread, defending a position where that was expressly stated in the OP. Its topical.

You think like a 15 year old.

You're exactly the noise that prevents policy discussions on this matter that could make a difference.

But you don't care about policy discussions. Just political point scoring.

Seriously go F yourself.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Kryties

Why would I show you something I didn't claim you said? I mean that's a very dramatic response and all, but pretty moot.

A quick google search shows all sorts of results for gun owners/the NRA/republicans/conservatives have blood on their hands. And I'll happily concede that LaPierre was a retard for saying gun-control advocates have blood on their hands.

But I concede that because I recognize it's an asinine statement to make in any sort of way that isn't specific to the person doing the murdering.

You brought it up as an example of why people like myself get automatically labelled. I was simply pointing out how utterly ridiculous that reasoning is when people use it to label everyone who disagrees. Its utter hypocrisy. Can you explain why you used that example when I have NEVER said anything like that myself? Why are you trying to compare me to those people?

Sure, right after you explain why you used the example that people who disagree with you start shouting ANTI-GUNNER.

I've never shouted that in my life so....?

Your ridiculous premise was met with an equally (in your opinion) ridiculous response. You don't get to paint with the broad brush and then whine when it's done right back to you.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well, I am sick of being automatically labelled as a "gun hater" simply for daring to have my opinion. If what people want is a thread where everyone just pats each other on the back and agrees with each other and labels anyone who dares to disagree than I have no interest in posting in those threads. Makes for a very boring DISCUSSION website methinks.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You know, I read your posts from across the pond in your little British safe haven and its become blatantly obvious that the depths of your hatred for Americans is very deep and wide.

Have a nice day. Troll on.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: snowspirit
Another thing I'm noticing on the news, is everyone wondering how this shooter got a gun. In Canada, with all our controls and regulations, anyone can still get a gun, easily.

So how is anyone (news media) wondering how he got a gun?

Because (a) it's a valid question, (b) most people don't want to accept the fact that it's easy to purchase firearms under the radar of background checks (illegally), and (c) is helps stoke the fear about current laws not doing enough.

So do we know where the majority of black market firearms are coming from? Is anything bieng done to deal with this or is it too big a market to contain?

What kind of trouble do you get in for selling firearms illegally?

It's all just question question question with me sometimes aint it.

Illegal firearms purchases can get you up to 10 years

Personally I'd like to see them change it so that if you illegal sell a gun to someone or buy one for someone who can't legally purchase one, and they commit a murder, you should be charged with accessory to murder. Some states may already do this, I'm not sure.

originally posted by: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin
Look folks, it's no accident that the left is attacking the 1st and 2nd amendments so furiously......

Yep.

They want to turn us in to China.

Were private ownership has been outlawed.

Only the state gets to have them.

In other words a police state.

originally posted by: nonspecific
So do we know where the majority of black market firearms are coming from? Is anything bieng done to deal with this or is it too big a market to contain?

Oh, hell...don't get me started on my conspiracy theories about this.

Let's just say our government has been caught on more than one occasion supplying firearms as parts of "operations" and then losing track of them. And I'm not talking just a couple firearms, either.

Then you have things going on like in Cincinnati (close to where I live), where gangs and criminals leave "community guns" hidden throughout the city, when people who want to commit crimes can pay for access to the gun and ammo, then replace it when they're done.

Then you have places where it's legal to pass down and sell firearms privately. Laws state that you SHOULD do background checks at a firearms dealer or do your due diligence in other ways to ensure that you're not selling it to someone who cannot own one, but the reality is that this doesn't always happen. I've sold/traded a few firearms privately, but I would only do it to people who had concealed-carry permits--at least that let me know that they can legally possess a firearm.

And then you just have the good ol' black market of gun running, which will always be a thing. I just read a story a few weeks ago where hundreds of firearms were making their way to and being purchased in Australia via the dark web. These are hundreds--probably thousands--of firearms that their government doesn't even know exist in their country, even though they now have such tight gun laws.

It's a many-faceted problem, and in a country like ours where we have oceans on both sides AND we are a termination/starting point for a bunch of drug, human, and firearm trafficking to Central and South America, you can see that it's probably going to be something that will never end.

What kind of trouble do you get in for selling firearms illegally?

Like with anything, there are too many mitigating circumstances that cause the punishment to differ substantially for the individual.

But the government never gets in trouble for doing it.

It's all just question question question with me sometimes aint it.

But they're good questions, so it's a good discussion.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Sometimes I do man. Just calling it like I see it. You are good for shock value headlines for your OP. What this should be is not about the 2nd Amendment but how we as citizens can become a little more involved in what goes on around us.