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Second Amendment Advocates Have Blood on Their Hands

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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: face23785

Ok, so again what's your point? Is it ok if people are killed as long as they're killed by something not designed to kill? Is there even a logical point to what you said or did you just read it on Everytown and it sounded clever?


Sigh.

Clearly the point has sailed right over your head in a jet plane.

I have said what I came here to say, I'm not going to get bogged down in ridiculous arguments. Good day to you Sir.


So you have no point. Got it. Sorry you thought something was clever but didn't think it through enough to realize it was actually pointless. Next time, don't just regurgitate talking points. Get educated on the issue.


LOL. Again, the point goes sailing over your head. There was a point, but you are clearly blind to it.

Toodles, have a good day.




posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:21 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Also as I have pointed out mental health is not the issue.

And others, including mental-health experts, have pointed out that it is.

Hmmm...whom to believe...whom, indeed...



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

There are gun control policies in America. What, in particular, would you see as being needed in addition to what is already there?

Beyond this, why are we talking about gun control when this turd kills people randomly, but not drivers license control when another turd runs a van into a crowd? WHy is one mode of murder more alarming than another?

The term "gun violence" is a propaganda term. It asks its user to ignore that violence is the issue by putting "gun" as a classifier. Pure propaganda.


A vans primary function is to transport goods.

A carving knife's primary function is to carve meat.

A hammers primary function is to knock in nails.

All of the above can and have been used to kill people.

What is the primary function of a hand gun?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
And no I am not advocating the government banning all guns, I have said it countless times I think the Australian example is what I think should be followed.


They'd have to do door-to-door searches and confiscation in every home in the United States in order for the Australia style bans to work. Non-compliance would be overwhelming.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

I mentioned manufacturing because what if the states bans all foreign firearms from being sold in the US, and only allows for domestic sales, where strict supervision of them being made, to when they leave, and maybe only certain government approved stores can sell fire arms.
Then yea, rework the background checks, and have proper sales of regulated fire arms.
The most used argument i hear is that people who follow the laws strictly get a bad rep because of people who murder, go on killing sprees, etc. it make sense. But if that were the case, then I am sure those people wouldn't be against more government control over the sales and manufacturing of weapons.
Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.


You would be mistaken. Most of us are against such restrictions specifically because we're law abiding citizens with a constitutional right that is already regulated and expensive enough. Making it more expensive and harder to get isn't gonna stop criminals. Most criminals don't obtain their guns by going into stores or gun shows. Shifting the sale point to a government controlled facility won't change that. All it will change is where us law abiding folks get our guns.


I realize this. I know the "criminals get guns blah blah" washed out argument, heard it a million times.
But regulation needs to start somewhere. If you're a law abiding citizen then you should have no issue getting a gun.
One of the main issues is that guns are so easily dismissed and people are far to slack about them. I wonder how many people buy a gun, only to sell it a few months later because they are 'bored' with it.

I think you missed my point.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: face23785

Ok, so again what's your point? Is it ok if people are killed as long as they're killed by something not designed to kill? Is there even a logical point to what you said or did you just read it on Everytown and it sounded clever?


Sigh.

Clearly the point has sailed right over your head in a jet plane.

I have said what I came here to say, I'm not going to get bogged down in ridiculous arguments. Good day to you Sir.


So you have no point. Got it. Sorry you thought something was clever but didn't think it through enough to realize it was actually pointless. Next time, don't just regurgitate talking points. Get educated on the issue.


LOL. Again, the point goes sailing over your head. There was a point, but you are clearly blind to it.

Toodles, have a good day.


But you can't explain your point, because you don't have one. Pretending it's just too complicated for me to understand is a weak defense mechanism. Toodles indeed. Please get educated on this issue before you post in threads about it.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Also as I have pointed out mental health is not the issue.

And others, including mental-health experts, have pointed out that it is.

Hmmm...whom to believe...whom, indeed...


Dumb question here but is mental health care free or paid for? sorry to bring the other thread to this one but I feel it is relavant.




posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: strongfp



Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.

88,000 Americans die every year because of alcohol. CDC
No one is doing anything.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

I mentioned manufacturing because what if the states bans all foreign firearms from being sold in the US, and only allows for domestic sales, where strict supervision of them being made, to when they leave, and maybe only certain government approved stores can sell fire arms.
Then yea, rework the background checks, and have proper sales of regulated fire arms.
The most used argument i hear is that people who follow the laws strictly get a bad rep because of people who murder, go on killing sprees, etc. it make sense. But if that were the case, then I am sure those people wouldn't be against more government control over the sales and manufacturing of weapons.
Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.


You would be mistaken. Most of us are against such restrictions specifically because we're law abiding citizens with a constitutional right that is already regulated and expensive enough. Making it more expensive and harder to get isn't gonna stop criminals. Most criminals don't obtain their guns by going into stores or gun shows. Shifting the sale point to a government controlled facility won't change that. All it will change is where us law abiding folks get our guns.


I realize this. I know the "criminals get guns blah blah" washed out argument, heard it a million times.
But regulation needs to start somewhere. If you're a law abiding citizen then you should have no issue getting a gun.
One of the main issues is that guns are so easily dismissed and people are far to slack about them. I wonder how many people buy a gun, only to sell it a few months later because they are 'bored' with it.

I think you missed my point.


No I didn't miss the point, and it's not a washed out argument. The entire point of this is to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people isn't it? So why focus on doing things that will only make it harder for law-abiding citizens to get them? This is why you guys can't get anywhere. Every time something like this happens, you propose pointless changes that will have zero impact on gun crime. It doesn't get opposed because the NRA has 300+ politicians bought and paid for. It gets opposed because people who are well-informed on this issue realize it will have no impact and don't want to burden the general public with pointless regulation.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I understand the point you are making and I can agree how you feel that way. I'm not opposed to starting a dialogue...but where to start? Those that are either opposed to gun ownership or pro gun ownership are polarized to the extreme and refuse to compromise.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Sigh........I'll try again.





originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You keep ignoring this question.....

He broke the law obtaining this firearm


What NEW law is going to fix that?

Are you advocating the government go door to door and confiscate ALL firearms?


I suspect you know it and just like getting "them" to admit it, but I think it bears mentioning: it's not about new laws for people that push this line of "thought."

It's about waving a magic wand and punishing the overwhelming majority of a group of people because of the acts of a few, most of whom aren't even that group to begin with because their very act of being a part of that group is illegal from the start.


that is pretty much the one thing about the military that infuriated me even more than death by power point.

God forbid we hold the individual accountable, makes a lot more sense to punish everybody for the few... (end sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired)

Ugh.. think I need a drink again.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: strongfp



Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.

88,000 Americans die every year because of alcohol. CDC
No one is doing anything.


Alcoholics Anonymous - www.aa.org...

I'm not finding a "Gun Owners Anonymous" anywhere.

Clearly people ARE trying to do something about alcohol.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: strongfp

Something needs to be done, but government restriction of freedoms is not the answer.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: strongfp



Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.

88,000 Americans die every year because of alcohol. CDC
No one is doing anything.


Alcoholics Anonymous - www.aa.org...

I'm not finding a "Gun Owners Anonymous" anywhere.

Clearly people ARE trying to do something about alcohol.


You're not paying attention then. There's literally millions of gun owners not killing people for every one gun owner or gun possessor that does kill people.

That's millions of people doing something about gun violence: namely, not committing acts of violence with guns. Every day.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

I mentioned manufacturing because what if the states bans all foreign firearms from being sold in the US, and only allows for domestic sales, where strict supervision of them being made, to when they leave, and maybe only certain government approved stores can sell fire arms.
Then yea, rework the background checks, and have proper sales of regulated fire arms.
The most used argument i hear is that people who follow the laws strictly get a bad rep because of people who murder, go on killing sprees, etc. it make sense. But if that were the case, then I am sure those people wouldn't be against more government control over the sales and manufacturing of weapons.
Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.


You would be mistaken. Most of us are against such restrictions specifically because we're law abiding citizens with a constitutional right that is already regulated and expensive enough. Making it more expensive and harder to get isn't gonna stop criminals. Most criminals don't obtain their guns by going into stores or gun shows. Shifting the sale point to a government controlled facility won't change that. All it will change is where us law abiding folks get our guns.


I realize this. I know the "criminals get guns blah blah" washed out argument, heard it a million times.
But regulation needs to start somewhere. If you're a law abiding citizen then you should have no issue getting a gun.
One of the main issues is that guns are so easily dismissed and people are far to slack about them. I wonder how many people buy a gun, only to sell it a few months later because they are 'bored' with it.

I think you missed my point.


No I didn't miss the point, and it's not a washed out argument. The entire point of this is to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people isn't it? So why focus on doing things that will only make it harder for law-abiding citizens to get them? This is why you guys can't get anywhere. Every time something like this happens, you propose pointless changes that will have zero impact on gun crime. It doesn't get opposed because the NRA has 300+ politicians bought and paid for. It gets opposed because people who are well-informed on this issue realize it will have no impact and don't want to burden the general public with pointless regulation.


Right, so there's a massive bullying issue from lobbyists and biased opinions?

Hmm...

And you keep bringing up the argument. The same one EVERY time. I know the argument, and I agree with it.
But you clearly cannot comprehend what regulating manufacturing and sales of guns can lead to. you're being stubborn, tunnel visioned.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



I think the biggest thing about preventing a individual acquiring a illegal firearm is firstly to limit the number of firearms in circulation.


There are probably close to 400 million firearms in America at this point, not counting all the illegal firearms, no one knows exactly how many.
Comparing Australia to the U.S. is comparing apples to oranges.



Adding up new guns and imports and subtracting gun exports, in 2013 there would have been roughly 357 million firearms in the U.S. — 40 million more guns than people. This is just an estimate. These numbers are blind to firearms that enter and exit the country illegally, and to guns that break down, or are lost or destroyed.

WashingtonPost

We need to enforce laws ALREADY on the books here. There is no political will to do that, in fact, the last administration gave stand down orders for certain sects of the country. LEO's were encouraged NOT to enforce the law, and those that did faced repercussions.

We don't need NEW laws, we need the political will to enforce the laws we have NOW.

Trump wants to do that, but faces opposition at every turn.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: ManFromEurope
I just read that there are more deaths by opioid-overdoses per day than gun-related.

Sounds unsafe to live there.


Opioid use and finding yourself on the losing end of a gunshot usually have the same thing in common: Your own personal choices dictated the outcome.

Of course, I said "usually have the same things in common"...heaven forbid I don't reiterate that before someone replies with a list of anecdotes that prove otherwise.

So, no, it's not unsafe to live here if you make generally intelligent decision with your own life--on the contrary, actually...it can be very prosperous to live here if you don't act a fool.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: strongfp



Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.

88,000 Americans die every year because of alcohol. CDC
No one is doing anything.


Alcoholics Anonymous - www.aa.org...

I'm not finding a "Gun Owners Anonymous" anywhere.

Clearly people ARE trying to do something about alcohol.

Believe it or not, the NRA (oh noeees!) does gun safety programs all across the US.
So do individual state governments, county governments and municipal governments.

Ohhh, it seems like AA sucks at what they do. Check out the recidivism rates.
Why aren't you out there picketing to have alcohol banned?
edit on b000000302017-11-06T09:36:55-06:0009America/ChicagoMon, 06 Nov 2017 09:36:55 -0600900000017 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: face23785

I mentioned manufacturing because what if the states bans all foreign firearms from being sold in the US, and only allows for domestic sales, where strict supervision of them being made, to when they leave, and maybe only certain government approved stores can sell fire arms.
Then yea, rework the background checks, and have proper sales of regulated fire arms.
The most used argument i hear is that people who follow the laws strictly get a bad rep because of people who murder, go on killing sprees, etc. it make sense. But if that were the case, then I am sure those people wouldn't be against more government control over the sales and manufacturing of weapons.
Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.


You would be mistaken. Most of us are against such restrictions specifically because we're law abiding citizens with a constitutional right that is already regulated and expensive enough. Making it more expensive and harder to get isn't gonna stop criminals. Most criminals don't obtain their guns by going into stores or gun shows. Shifting the sale point to a government controlled facility won't change that. All it will change is where us law abiding folks get our guns.


I realize this. I know the "criminals get guns blah blah" washed out argument, heard it a million times.
But regulation needs to start somewhere. If you're a law abiding citizen then you should have no issue getting a gun.
One of the main issues is that guns are so easily dismissed and people are far to slack about them. I wonder how many people buy a gun, only to sell it a few months later because they are 'bored' with it.

I think you missed my point.


No I didn't miss the point, and it's not a washed out argument. The entire point of this is to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people isn't it? So why focus on doing things that will only make it harder for law-abiding citizens to get them? This is why you guys can't get anywhere. Every time something like this happens, you propose pointless changes that will have zero impact on gun crime. It doesn't get opposed because the NRA has 300+ politicians bought and paid for. It gets opposed because people who are well-informed on this issue realize it will have no impact and don't want to burden the general public with pointless regulation.


Right, so there's a massive bullying issue from lobbyists and biased opinions?

Hmm...

And you keep bringing up the argument. The same one EVERY time. I know the argument, and I agree with it.
But you clearly cannot comprehend what regulating manufacturing and sales of guns can lead to. you're being stubborn, tunnel visioned.


Dude, you acknowledged it won't affect criminals. So what am I being stubborn about? Is your goal to stop criminals, or just to burden to law-abiding? If it's to stop criminals, you already admitted your proposal won't do that. Who's being stubborn?



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: strongfp



Bottom line is, something does need to be done, and it seems no-one is doing anything.

88,000 Americans die every year because of alcohol. CDC
No one is doing anything.


This strawman again ... yea so does sugar, cigarettes, car collisions, etc, etc. but all those aren't something that was designed with the intention to kill.
And there's a lot of people out there who are severely misinformed from the effects of alcohol abuse.

Throwing a can of beer at someone isn't going to kill them right away, shoot a bullet at someone, well yea.




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