Texas Church Shooting : Thread

a reply to: truthseeking


It isn't alarming at all. Check how we rank in total murders, instead of focusing on one pet issue and one single method of murder.

Go ahead and compare the "gun murders" vs. the rest of the murders. I'll wait

HINT: we're in 32nd place for total murders (2009)
rankingamerica.wordpress.com...

UPDATE HINT: Newer data from 2010 suggests we now rank FIFTY SECOND place for total intentional homicides:
rankingamerica.wordpress.com...

According to the most recent data made available to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime, the United States has a homicide rate of 5.2 per 100,000 people, which makes the United States tied for fifty-second with Argentina out of one hundred thirty-eight ranked countries. Honduras ranks first, with a homicide rate of 60.9 per 100,000.

This is nothing. It isn't a problem, and barely a blip on the radar compared to the leading causes of death (firearms don't even rank on that chart). Heart disease, cancer, obesity, starvation, texting & driving/accidents are all problems. Gun deaths are not a problem, and looking at gun crimes exclusively is very dishonest considering how low our annual murder rate is.

That low annual murder rate is undoubtedly due to proliferation of firearms in the hands of armed Citizens.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: soberbacchus

Let us not forget that this would have been MUCH WORSE, had there not been an armed citizen with his rifle to end the bloodshed.

We do not know if it would have been "MUCH WORSE".
The largest mass murder in Texas History had already occurred by the time that sincere hero and courageous man engaged.
What was that citizen armed with again?

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: soberbacchus

Let us not forget that this would have been MUCH WORSE, had there not been an armed citizen with his rifle to end the bloodshed.

We do not know if it would have been "MUCH WORSE".
The largest mass murder in Texas History had already occurred by the time that sincere hero and courageous man engaged.
What was that citizen armed with again?

He was armed with one of those scary black rifles people want to ban.

It's true nobody knows what would've happened if the killer continued. He may not have even been leaving. At the press conference today law enforcement said all the magazines they found in the church for his AR were empty. He may have only been going out to the car to get another gun. He had multiple weapons in the car.

a reply to: soberbacchus

An AR15

a reply to: soberbacchus

It's not on Texas. It's the national DB that gets checked.

He didn't get a CHL in Texas so Texas worked when it was up to them.

Blame Uncle Sam.

a reply to: JBurns

I am not arguing that. I am not talking about total murders. I'm talking about the problem of murder in general in the United States. To commit murder, you need some sort of tool; and by a dramatically - vast margin, firearms are the #1 tools used to commit murder in America.
Since it's written in the very fabric of the definition of being an American (constitution), I understand the constant aversion and twisting of these very alarming facts by many of you. Mass shootings are terrifying and devastate communities; they are obviously committed by cowards who get their hands on firearms. The fact still remains: this greatly terrifying phenomenon is most seen in the United States, out of all places.

Since it's come to light this guy had serious mental health issues and was institutionalized and escaped, and none of that was in the NICS system, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Republicans introduced a bill last year to close loopholes in mental health reporting to NICS. It was filibustered by Democrats because it didn't include everything they wanted. Would it have stopped this guy? I don't know. But I'd have liked to see those loopholes closed, whether it had everything on their gun control wish list or not they shouldn't have filibustered it.

Source: Politico

a reply to: projectvxn
I do not believe that this is the case. The military if anything is very fastidious when it comes to paperwork, and filing it to the proper places.

I think that there needs to be more of an investigation, the first being is where did the shooter get his firearm from. Was it his or was it via say a friend or family that gave him such.

Details like that would help and ultimately will leads to other questions.

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Been number of bombing at schools

Bath School - Michigan - 1927

en.wikipedia.org...

Poe School - Houston Texas 1959

en.wikipedia.org...

Why is it again that civilians need semi-automatic assault rifles with clips of ammo?

Can someone who knows guns help me out with this? Thanks.

a reply to: face23785

And some Reps also voted against some of them. So it can't all be blamed on Dems.

One part

Republicans and Democrats put forward dueling background check proposals: Democrats are reviving the core of a bipartisan plan from 2013 that would establish a universal background checks system, including at gun shows and for Internet sales. But their current measure is broader than the version from three years ago, drafted by Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.). That effectively ensured Toomey, whom Democrats want to oust from his Senate seat this fall, would vote against it

"But their current measure is broader than the version from three years ago"

So making the checks more comprehensive was a no go for at least one Rep working on the bill. His supporters would be against it.

This guy was a monster,just listening to the victims stories. Nothing and i mean nothing would have stopped him he is pure evil. Listen to this and tell me he would not have used a fork if he had to.

www.cnn.com...

Oh and the latest he tried this same thing at his base and threatened his commanders.

a reply to: dragonridr

Agreed dragonrider, this is the incarnation of the kind of evil we glorify on MTV and in Hollywood and foster in our political discourse. How many of those murderous "gangsta" types are lorded around by their cult following? Popular culture is turned murder and depravity into a sick form of entertainment, and it is no surprise evil people are acting out these fantasy scenarios.

Look at how far politics have devolved, civility and decorum are all but dead unfortunately and few people respect others. Our country is in a sad state, and risks becoming a failed state should civil unrest spark a larger conflict. No doubt the government could control any such conflict, but its result on the economy would be disastrous.

One thing is for sure, things can not continue down the same road merrily ever after. People have felt this for years, but things are coming to a head. Hopefully people can learn to respect and listen to one another again instead of immediately shutting down and going on the offensive.

Maybe that is hoping for too much, I don't know

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Why is it again that civilians need semi-automatic assault rifles with clips of ammo?

Can someone who knows guns help me out with this? Thanks.

Whats a clip ?

a reply to: roadgravel


They are already very comprehensive (ie: who can report to the system and for what reasons) but broader access to that system will, IMO, be the improvement that makes a dent in these acts. Non-FFLs need a means to submit queries to NICS in order to determine buyer's eligibility.

a reply to: JBurns

Then people should admit both Reps and Dems have a hand in the state of the system as to what is covered.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork


I'll gladly help you out. It is actually pretty simple.

We require military weaponry and standard + extended capacity magazines because they are the most effective tool for defensive purposes. This is in reference to defense of self and defense of state. Handguns protect individual lives, while rifles protect national sovereignty and society.

Because violent criminals/terrorists will always acquire/make lethal weapons (illegally, might I add), it is that much more important we have access to the absolute best tool for the job. Tactical rifles are pretty effective at stopping a deadly threat before they have a chance to carry out their illegal deadly attack.

Also because a government in which anyone can come to power means there is always potential for tyranny. The second amendment is the Citizen's last line of defense against government tyranny. The Constitution and DOI charge the people with maintaining vigilance over the Government, and retaining arms + training to prevent a dictatorship from taking power.

The Second Amendment makes such a dictatorship impossible in this nation. Even foreign nations have historically known to avoid a land invasion, because there are in fact more guns than people here.

Armed populations are known as Citizens. Disarmed populations are known as subjects.

Hope that helps.

a reply to: roadgravel


Of course they do. But there is no problem with what is covered. This guy clearly was outside of the law, but the Air Force failed to report to FBI NICS. Since NICS didn't know about it, it will happily report "proceed" (all other requirements being passed)

a reply to: JBurns

I truly understand why those two got in their truck and followed him. I know id have made it my mission to make sure he died that day. The evil involved here is beyond my comprehension. And the navy needs to start the court martials they unleashed this monster on the streets. Every one of his commanders needs to get time in jail.

a reply to: JBurns

private sales and gun shows are not covered, correct.