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Texas Church Shooting : Thread
page: 48share:
a reply to: TheJesuit
Yea, Yea let's raise hell about gun deaths. It's a terrible thing. People do stupid as well as evil crap. Yes, it's easier to kill with a gun. There is no law that can be passed to stop it.
It's like the war on drugs, if someone wants something they can buy it, steal it or make/grow it.
The big problem is that it's concentrated and not spread over 300 million or so folks.
Everyday more people die in motor vehicle accidents, from drug overdoses, in their sleep, from cancer and lots of other things.
We don't need a knee-jerk reaction blaming inanimate objects.
Yea, Yea let's raise hell about gun deaths. It's a terrible thing. People do stupid as well as evil crap. Yes, it's easier to kill with a gun. There is no law that can be passed to stop it.
It's like the war on drugs, if someone wants something they can buy it, steal it or make/grow it.
The big problem is that it's concentrated and not spread over 300 million or so folks.
Everyday more people die in motor vehicle accidents, from drug overdoses, in their sleep, from cancer and lots of other things.
We don't need a knee-jerk reaction blaming inanimate objects.
originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer
a reply to: TheJesuit
Yea, Yea let's raise hell about gun deaths. It's a terrible thing. People do stupid as well as evil crap. Yes, it's easier to kill with a gun. There is no law that can be passed to stop it.
It's like the war on drugs, if someone wants something they can buy it, steal it or make/grow it.
The big problem is that it's concentrated and not spread over 300 million or so folks.
Everyday more people die in motor vehicle accidents, from drug overdoses, in their sleep, from cancer and lots of other things.
We don't need a knee-jerk reaction blaming inanimate objects.
Turns out a local resident apparently stopped the killing spree. It was reported he saw what was happening went into his house and shot at him with his rifle. This caused him to get in to his car and drive away. He didnt seem to make it far as a couple of blocks away he was found dead from a gunshot wound. So if that neighbor didnt start shooting he wouldnt have left until everyone was dead.
originally posted by: Jaellma
A non-Muslim person perpetrated this attack. We need to call this one what it really is folks...a home grown terrorist attack of significant magnitude.
When will the madness stop?
Terrorism by definition is an action designed to effect political change.
Killing people for others reasons is not terrorism.
I don't care if you lot want to keep your guns. They seem mystifyingly important to you.
All I'll say is that when you start routinely carrying guns simply because you're worried that the next guy might be doing the same - you've created a climate of fear.
I don't know why terrorists bother with America. You guys are doing a swell job of terrorising yourselves.
My condolences to all affected by this disgusting attack. Peace.
All I'll say is that when you start routinely carrying guns simply because you're worried that the next guy might be doing the same - you've created a climate of fear.
I don't know why terrorists bother with America. You guys are doing a swell job of terrorising yourselves.
My condolences to all affected by this disgusting attack. Peace.
I see references of how people in the US get treated for mental health issues privately but I'd say that they probably are not being treated properly
even then. My daughter is a recovering anorexic and I suffer severe depression, OCD and some other issues and I have to say the treatment for either
of us is AWFUL.
I watched as a so called psychiatrist asked my sister in law if she "had a place in the country to go to if she was stressed", this is a working class woman of no money living in a normal area, he then asked her if she had been in the armed forces, if he had bothered to read her notes he would have seen she has been treated since she was a child. Point is that so many of these people are off the chart of reality themselves and often use one size fits all cures which DON'T work or worse still, fail to address other issues.
For the most part mental health treatment is purely a cash cow for uninterested so called professionals who often make things WORSE...
I watched as a so called psychiatrist asked my sister in law if she "had a place in the country to go to if she was stressed", this is a working class woman of no money living in a normal area, he then asked her if she had been in the armed forces, if he had bothered to read her notes he would have seen she has been treated since she was a child. Point is that so many of these people are off the chart of reality themselves and often use one size fits all cures which DON'T work or worse still, fail to address other issues.
For the most part mental health treatment is purely a cash cow for uninterested so called professionals who often make things WORSE...
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
If and when the mental health issues are looked at on large scale.
Muslims are the scapegoats for the current fail in our civilization, it's far easier to blame than it is to accept responsibility.
Both are an issue, so to assume one is extreme Muslims or someone with mental problems ends up with the same results of a lot of people killed or hurt. Those are basically the two issues we have today, so does it really matter which one since they both have the same actions?
He was dishonorably discharged because he beat up his wife and kid, if it wasn't mentioned.
Definitely a mental health red flag.
Thank God for the neighbor.
Here's some lefty BS.
Dude's initials are DPK.
What?
Is he one of the Democratic People of Korea? Trying to drop the Republic? Attacking a religion? Is he not religious? Does he hate religion?
This is one of those stories that will make a person wonder just what is going on.
What?
Is he one of the Democratic People of Korea? Trying to drop the Republic? Attacking a religion? Is he not religious? Does he hate religion?
This is one of those stories that will make a person wonder just what is going on.
originally posted by: AnonymousMoose
I work in mental health and work with several people who do 5150 assessments...I was thinking about this, it should be easier to put someone on a 3 day hold to ensure they get the mental health services they need, especially without repercussions. The problem is how do we do this without violating their rights? I don't know what the answer is, but maybe we should also make it easier for people to voluntarily go in for a hold. I also think, contrary to what another poster said, our mental health services are not adequate...
3 day holds aren't the problem. Getting people to willingly undergo long term treatment is.
This is, of course, an appalling event, all too familiar in these dark days. There are no words that can be extended to the victims which will matter
to them, since many are dead, and no consolation or condolence which has any meaning in the face of this kind of loss. My prayers for the souls of the
dead, are not relevant much to the living, because after an act like this, the living suffer, and there is actually nothing one can do to replace the
hope that has been stolen from them, nor the lives of the unique and irreplaceable people who have been removed from their lives. To try to compose
any thought toward them is as trite and pointless as placing flowers in a rifle barrel.
And yet...
Another normal day, in a peaceful setting, a delicate peace shattered by a hail of lead, the fragility of life laid bare by the bullet punctuated flesh of ostensibly innocent persons, who were at the time they died, doing nothing wrong, causing harm to no one at all, and nonetheless mown down, for reasons which it is possible that those who remain, will never even have a glimpse into, leave alone fully understand.
And why? Is it because guns exist? I think it is so easy to argue otherwise, that this cannot possibly be the case, since all one has to do in order to successfully argue against that, is to dissect the appeal to emotion arguments, the strawmen, and the knee jerk reactions, to see that guns are not in and of themselves the problem. Sane people with guns do not do these things. Hell, even most people with fairly serious mental health problems do not necessarily do these things. But this man, who had mental health problems and had already expressed violent tendencies toward others, this man who was known, by the authorities no less, to be so unpredictable and dangerous, that they could no longer even be part of the military (a fraternity whose purpose is to slay the enemies of a state, and wonder at the logic and morality of it when the deed has already been done, and can no longer be changed), people known to be dangerous, they almost invariably DO enact some outrage, and the only things that tend to change from crazy case to crazy case, are the target of their villainy and the scale of the body count.
The question here is not, as far as I am concerned, why was this man able to secure weapons for himself, with which to carry out this attack. The question is, why was someone who was known to be mentally ill and had a history of violence, as well as experience in a military setting, EVER walking around in regular society? Why was this person not identified as a danger to himself and others years ago, and placed in permanent or at least indefinite secure care? This person should not have been able to lay hands on anything more potentially dangerous than a plastic spork, and should have been under supervision while in possession of that item, by professionally trained security staff, at a secure facility.
If we are seriously going to buy the idea that when people who have light skin, and do not claim to worship God differently than the Christian or the Jews, commit an act of mass murder, it is somehow different than when those who claim to be Muslim do it, that their reasons are to do with their mental health, not their politics or their religion, then we also, do we not, have to accept that properly treating mental health conditions at the first expression of them, and being willing to spend the money and accept the moral implications of long term, rehabilitative, secure care, are absolutely necessary?
One cannot have ones cake and eat it too. The simple fact of the matter is, that if mental health problems are the root of these mass shootings, then proper and comprehensive measures to improve the mental health of those who can be restored, and measures to contain those with the sorts of mental health issues which are both unrecoverable and pose a threat to life and limb, theirs or anyone elses, must be put in place, tomorrow, today, yesterday, not in ten, twenty, or thirty years, after exhaustive congressional examination, but right away!
If one wishes to live in a nation which does not fear the firearm, whose citizens rightly and justly have the right to keep and bear arms for their defence, then one must also live in a nation where those who cannot reason, are not able to access either their arms, or indeed the rest of society. Here in Britain, there have been murders over the years, brutal murders, by people who are deranged, utilising a range of weapons, most of which were not firearms, or even knives. Hammer attacks, stranglers, people beaten to death with fists and feet, stabbed with screwdrivers, beaten with metal bars, bricks, sick people who tortured their victims to death when the perpetrators themselves were not even in their teens yet.
Those who are of a brutal mindset, do not care what weapons are most readily accessible to them. People of a brutal mindset are not limited by ease of the kill. People of a brutal mindset would quite happily kill just as many people with a pair of framing hammers, as they ever would with a rifle or a pistol, and people like that WOULD be capable of killing and killing and killing again, regardless of what tool you put in their hand or what resistance they were faced with.
So taking guns away from everyone does not solve the problem, because all it will do, is force a change in preferred weapon, and a slight change in methodology. It will not change the body count, because brutal people do brutal things, and what tools they have to work with matter not one bit to them. The moment the guns go away, people will start making bombs out of household products, burning people to death with molotovs rather than firing guns, rigging cars to explode rather than taking shots on the interstate, and the list goes on. Removing a tool only forces the brutally minded to use a different weapon, not to stop killing, or stop thinking about it. If anything, stopping them from accessing noisy methods of killing, forces them to adopt quieter, stealthier strategies.
But actually treating mental health as a serious and important topic, not a taboo, or worse, looking at every mental health patient as a cash cow, like some Hollywood therapist to the stars might, actual treatment and proper recording of behaviour, ESPECIALLY in members of the armed forces, current and former, is VITAL, if the aim is to reduce the body count from acts like these. If you want fewer mass shootings, the dangerously mentally ill must NOT be allowed to walk the same streets, drive the same highways, or indulge in the freedoms that the rest of you have, because if they are, they will access both a tool to perform an act of savagery, and the victim pool they desire to enact such savagery on.
There are no solutions to this problem which do not involve correcting the parlous state of the mental healthcare system in the United States.
It would be foolish to hope that this situation does not repeat itself some time soon, because the frequency of these acts seems to be on the increase, the number of psychotics crawling out of the woodwork only seems to grow, never shrink in these times. But I will allow myself to hope that eventually, the argument will move away from the mere tools used to enact these horrors, and refocus itself on the desire to perform them, and correcting that desire in future generations of potential mass murderers.
And yet...
Another normal day, in a peaceful setting, a delicate peace shattered by a hail of lead, the fragility of life laid bare by the bullet punctuated flesh of ostensibly innocent persons, who were at the time they died, doing nothing wrong, causing harm to no one at all, and nonetheless mown down, for reasons which it is possible that those who remain, will never even have a glimpse into, leave alone fully understand.
And why? Is it because guns exist? I think it is so easy to argue otherwise, that this cannot possibly be the case, since all one has to do in order to successfully argue against that, is to dissect the appeal to emotion arguments, the strawmen, and the knee jerk reactions, to see that guns are not in and of themselves the problem. Sane people with guns do not do these things. Hell, even most people with fairly serious mental health problems do not necessarily do these things. But this man, who had mental health problems and had already expressed violent tendencies toward others, this man who was known, by the authorities no less, to be so unpredictable and dangerous, that they could no longer even be part of the military (a fraternity whose purpose is to slay the enemies of a state, and wonder at the logic and morality of it when the deed has already been done, and can no longer be changed), people known to be dangerous, they almost invariably DO enact some outrage, and the only things that tend to change from crazy case to crazy case, are the target of their villainy and the scale of the body count.
The question here is not, as far as I am concerned, why was this man able to secure weapons for himself, with which to carry out this attack. The question is, why was someone who was known to be mentally ill and had a history of violence, as well as experience in a military setting, EVER walking around in regular society? Why was this person not identified as a danger to himself and others years ago, and placed in permanent or at least indefinite secure care? This person should not have been able to lay hands on anything more potentially dangerous than a plastic spork, and should have been under supervision while in possession of that item, by professionally trained security staff, at a secure facility.
If we are seriously going to buy the idea that when people who have light skin, and do not claim to worship God differently than the Christian or the Jews, commit an act of mass murder, it is somehow different than when those who claim to be Muslim do it, that their reasons are to do with their mental health, not their politics or their religion, then we also, do we not, have to accept that properly treating mental health conditions at the first expression of them, and being willing to spend the money and accept the moral implications of long term, rehabilitative, secure care, are absolutely necessary?
One cannot have ones cake and eat it too. The simple fact of the matter is, that if mental health problems are the root of these mass shootings, then proper and comprehensive measures to improve the mental health of those who can be restored, and measures to contain those with the sorts of mental health issues which are both unrecoverable and pose a threat to life and limb, theirs or anyone elses, must be put in place, tomorrow, today, yesterday, not in ten, twenty, or thirty years, after exhaustive congressional examination, but right away!
If one wishes to live in a nation which does not fear the firearm, whose citizens rightly and justly have the right to keep and bear arms for their defence, then one must also live in a nation where those who cannot reason, are not able to access either their arms, or indeed the rest of society. Here in Britain, there have been murders over the years, brutal murders, by people who are deranged, utilising a range of weapons, most of which were not firearms, or even knives. Hammer attacks, stranglers, people beaten to death with fists and feet, stabbed with screwdrivers, beaten with metal bars, bricks, sick people who tortured their victims to death when the perpetrators themselves were not even in their teens yet.
Those who are of a brutal mindset, do not care what weapons are most readily accessible to them. People of a brutal mindset are not limited by ease of the kill. People of a brutal mindset would quite happily kill just as many people with a pair of framing hammers, as they ever would with a rifle or a pistol, and people like that WOULD be capable of killing and killing and killing again, regardless of what tool you put in their hand or what resistance they were faced with.
So taking guns away from everyone does not solve the problem, because all it will do, is force a change in preferred weapon, and a slight change in methodology. It will not change the body count, because brutal people do brutal things, and what tools they have to work with matter not one bit to them. The moment the guns go away, people will start making bombs out of household products, burning people to death with molotovs rather than firing guns, rigging cars to explode rather than taking shots on the interstate, and the list goes on. Removing a tool only forces the brutally minded to use a different weapon, not to stop killing, or stop thinking about it. If anything, stopping them from accessing noisy methods of killing, forces them to adopt quieter, stealthier strategies.
But actually treating mental health as a serious and important topic, not a taboo, or worse, looking at every mental health patient as a cash cow, like some Hollywood therapist to the stars might, actual treatment and proper recording of behaviour, ESPECIALLY in members of the armed forces, current and former, is VITAL, if the aim is to reduce the body count from acts like these. If you want fewer mass shootings, the dangerously mentally ill must NOT be allowed to walk the same streets, drive the same highways, or indulge in the freedoms that the rest of you have, because if they are, they will access both a tool to perform an act of savagery, and the victim pool they desire to enact such savagery on.
There are no solutions to this problem which do not involve correcting the parlous state of the mental healthcare system in the United States.
It would be foolish to hope that this situation does not repeat itself some time soon, because the frequency of these acts seems to be on the increase, the number of psychotics crawling out of the woodwork only seems to grow, never shrink in these times. But I will allow myself to hope that eventually, the argument will move away from the mere tools used to enact these horrors, and refocus itself on the desire to perform them, and correcting that desire in future generations of potential mass murderers.
originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Well this is pretty interesting.
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This is one of the more concerning posts that I've seen so far. If this is any type of "call to arms" it's going to be a VERY bad week. Some people have mentioned that Texas was predicted earlier, and apparently another church shooting from Sunday was also mentioned. Hopefully it's all coincidence.
a reply to: RomeByFire
To laugh at ANY mass shooting, despite who agrees, disagrees or is indifferent makes you a monster.
To laugh at ANY mass shooting, despite who agrees, disagrees or is indifferent makes you a monster.
My heart goes out to all the poor people affected by this horrible event.
I think we need to take a hard look at ourself, more than anything else. All of us.
It's not about laws, or lack thereof.
We need to look at the values we are promoting. I think one of the most disturbing things is the lack of empathy in society in general, and on the interenet.
The whole world could do with some more empathy.
This is so tragic!
I think we need to take a hard look at ourself, more than anything else. All of us.
It's not about laws, or lack thereof.
We need to look at the values we are promoting. I think one of the most disturbing things is the lack of empathy in society in general, and on the interenet.
The whole world could do with some more empathy.
This is so tragic!
originally posted by: burgerbuddy
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
If and when the mental health issues are looked at on large scale.
Muslims are the scapegoats for the current fail in our civilization, it's far easier to blame than it is to accept responsibility.
Both are an issue, so to assume one is extreme Muslims or someone with mental problems ends up with the same results of a lot of people killed or hurt. Those are basically the two issues we have today, so does it really matter which one since they both have the same actions?
He was dishonorably discharged because he beat up his wife and kid, if it wasn't mentioned.
Definitely a mental health red flag.
Thank God for the neighbor.
Here's some lefty BS.
Yes, it's 'lefty bull#' to suggest maybe assault weapons should be kept out of the hands of the mentally ill.
Oh wait, no, it's just common sense.
originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
NO holiday for scouts.
Korea I was LURS D that means I sat in a recon OP for a divisional mission.
Germany was REFORGER.
then Desert Sheild/Storm.
Thank you for your service. I was never shot at by non friendlies and only had live small fire machine gun rounds shot over my head in training. Unfortunately for the soldier and his family, I did witness death in my training. Some people can't stay in a foxhole with live fire and some people can't fall 40 ft into water and survive. We were worried about the Russians and Chinese back then and the SJW were still baby's so we trained hard. Stuff happens if you are training properly. The whop whop guys lose em all the time. I feel unworthy to carry your guys boots, those of you who have risked it all in the battlefields. God bless and of course oooo RAAA!
originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
originally posted by: Jaellma
A non-Muslim person perpetrated this attack. We need to call this one what it really is folks...a home grown terrorist attack of significant magnitude.
When will the madness stop?
If and when the mental health issues are looked at on large scale.
Muslims are the scapegoats for the current fail in our civilization, it's far easier to blame than it is to accept responsibility.
Well scapegoats if only because the ISIS types are making it so. Not because the odds are with them being innocent. If there is a mass murder on the planet but especially in the westernized worlds who didn't vet ISIS out, it will turn out it was a Whahibi Muslim. It has been proven that the media will hide the facts about radical islam to distort opinion away from the Whahibist version being a murderous cult that teaches conquer or die. I suspect the Shiites are like Christians to ISIS and we are going to have to understand who is who in that religion and back the Shiites.
edit
on 6-11-2017 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
NO holiday for scouts.
Korea I was LURS D that means I sat in a recon OP for a divisional mission.
Germany was REFORGER.
then Desert Sheild/Storm.
What year were you in in Korea? I been in every action since Grenada up to like last week...lol
Thank you for your service.
I have a close friend who's an Airborne Daddy. His unit got pinned down and he was the only survivor of his unit on Grenada. He might have got whacked too but he was injured when he had a bumpy landing on the jump, was able to sit still and be like a sniper till help arrived.
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