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how is freemasonry connected with the bavarian illuminati?

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posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 12:15 AM
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how are they connected?


the bavarian illuminati is atheistic i dont get how they can be connected with freemasonry


freemason have to believe in a god




posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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How far do you think Freemasonry would have made it if the only requirement was the RENUNCIATION of a Supreme Being?

And you still wonder why an 'atheistic' (as you called it) group would use a God-serving group as a front?



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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Wikipedia holds the answers:

About Illuminati
en.wikipedia.org...

About Weishaupt
en.wikipedia.org...

About Deism
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by tomb_of_lazarus
how are they connected?


Plain and simple. They're not.



the bavarian illuminati is atheistic


They also NO LONGER EXIST...except in the minds of some conspiracy-theorists...



i dont get how they can be connected with freemasonry


Again, they're not. Why do you think they are (were?)



freemason have to believe in a god


Yep.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 07:36 AM
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"I'm getting wise, and I'm feeling so Bohemian like-you......."



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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Also, the Illuminati were not atheistic, and they required belief in God in order to join. Weishaupt and Mozart were Deists, Von Knigge was a Lutheran, and St. Germaine and Goethe were pantheists with interests in Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist mysticism.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Its funny that you cite Mozart, as a member of the Bavarian Illuminati.

He didn't believe in 'Deism', as much as he was mind-controlled from a young age. Those are the facts.

His godfather was Mesmer, the father of Mesmerism?

Its also funny, someone suggested the RCC killed him over 'The Magic Flute', while it is increasingly more likely he was murdered by those whose secrets he was revealing. Mind control can have a marked drop-off in adulthood, and perhaps he knew too much, and was too prominent for them to let him live to remember.

No one is suggesting that memorizing, and reciting oaths places one in a trance-like state...



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
He didn't believe in 'Deism', as much as he was mind-controlled from a young age. Those are the facts.


Are you tripping shrooms or something?


His godfather was Mesmer, the father of Mesmerism?


No.


Its also funny, someone suggested the RCC killed him over 'The Magic Flute', while it is increasingly more likely he was murdered by those whose secrets he was revealing.


What secrets? Care to enlighten us on what you're talking about, or are you not sure yourself?

[edit on 19-2-2005 by Masonic Light]



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Are you tripping shrooms or something?




That has got to be the funniest thing I have seen you post on this forum yet! I'm glad I want't drinking anything when I read that!


[edit on 2/19/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by tomb_of_lazarus
how are they connected?


the bavarian illuminati is atheistic i dont get how they can be connected with freemasonry


freemason have to believe in a god


They are not connected in anyway, some members may have been freemasons aswell, but thats about it really. There is no direct link between the two groups.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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Direct link between the groups?
You might as well state there is no OFFICIAL connection between the two.

More realistically, if an 'Illuminatus' (humor me) was a Brother in a Lodge, he would attempt to introduce a few fellow Brothers 'to the Light', if they 'passed the test'.

Again (humor me) this test would consist of a Brother being informed that the prior teachings as relayed to him (regarding Masonry's symbols, rituals, etc) were false, and the true meaning (whether true or not doesn't matter) was that the Brotherhood has a responsibilty to lead mankind (or those who WANT to be led).

If you react suitably, then you are recruited, an repeat a series of steps very similar to being initiated in Freemasonry, which surely involves being sworn to secrecy, at the threat of death (much like Freemasonry).

Sounds more plausible than approaching people on the street for recruitment, any way
. "Hey, wanna join a super-secret society?"



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
If you react suitably, then you are recruited, an repeat a series of steps very similar to being initiated in Freemasonry, which surely involves being sworn to secrecy, at the threat of death (much like Freemasonry).

Sounds more plausible than approaching people on the street for recruitment, any way
. "Hey, wanna join a super-secret society?"


Do you heave a learning disability, or do you just not listen? How many times has it been stated, and proven, that no Freemason is sworn to secrecy under threat of death!?!?!? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, many masons who have broken their promises to the fraternity are still walking around very much alive, although very much excommunicated from their lodge.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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just because some one is a pagan doesnt make them a evil person.



i know hindus and buddhists that are more nice then any christian

at least hindus dont call you satanists and blasphemers for giving them your opinion about there religion


just because people are occultists doesnt make them evil



[edit on 21-2-2005 by tomb_of_lazarus]



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Tomb of Lazarus, I agree completely, and thank you for being a voice of reason.




posted on Feb, 22 2005 @ 12:36 AM
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Consider this: Which type of Occultist is most dangerous?

The one who admits to using it to improve himself, to give himself knowledge.

The one who says outright he uses it to 'empower' himself, and bring good fortune, etc. to him.

The one who secretly practices the Occult for negative ends, and pretends to use it only for good so that no opposition is made.

So you see, even when someone quite honestly tells you they use occult knowledge for 'good' (like I would) you must still be suspicious of them.

Wizards are those that control from behind the scenes. Why should anyone who makes no qualms of lurking in shadows be angry at suspicion?



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 06:36 PM
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This is what George had to say:

"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am."

From his papers lcweb2.loc.gov.../mgw:@field(DOCID+@lit(gw360395))

but he also wrote:

"I have heard much of the nefarious, and dangerous plan, and doctrines of the Illuminati, but never saw the Book until you were pleased to send it to me.9 The same causes which have prevented my acknowledging the receipt of your letter have prevented my reading the Book, hitherto; namely, the multiplicity of matters which pressed upon me before, and the debilitated state in which I was left after, a severe fever had been removed. And which allows me to add little more now, than thanks for your kind wishes and favourable sentiments, except to correct an error you have run into, of my Presiding over the English lodges in this Country. The fact is, I preside over none, nor have I been in one more than once or twice, within the last thirty years. I believe notwithstanding, that none of the Lodges in this Country are contaminated with the principles ascribed to the Society of the Illuminati."



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Wizards are those that control from behind the scenes. Why should anyone who makes no qualms of lurking in shadows be angry at suspicion?



But therein lies the problem. People mistake masons to be shadowy and sketchy and what not, but masons definitely are not. They are only keeping private that which they are told to keep private. If someone told you a secret and made you promise not to say anything, would you?



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 10:56 PM
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I'm looking quite closely at the ties between modern (post Pike) Freemasonry and The Illuminati at the moment if and when I can be bothered.
Barruel's memiores have turned into quite a bit more reading than anything I've ever waded through before, makes Pike's Morals & Dogma look like light reading.
I keep getting drawn back to The Knight of the Sun / Prince Adept 28th Degree which is clearly out of place from the rest of the Scottish Rite, I originally sumised that maybe it had been moved to its current position by Pike from earlier in the Rite but it doesn't really fit in anyware and really stands alone.
The explainations of the rite by both Pike and McClenechan tend to indicate that many parts of it have evolved from "Illuminated Freemasonry", it's interpretations deal with the relationship between man and "god", light and darkness, heaven and earth etc... but only in the theoretical sence, it could easily be issued with an aetheist bent if you take the Illuminati's belief system that it is in fact "The Universe is creating God" not the other way around.
Anyway it'll be at least another couple of years before I've managed to cross reference everything in relation to the ritual but its worth looking into further if anyone has the time to do so.
I have seen references by people like Jack Straw that say that everyone obove the 27th degree is Illuminati, which would be plausible considering the highrachy of the order according to McClenechan's "The Book."
Hopefully when my ADSL arives I can publish this and other works for genuinally interested parties.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 03:03 AM
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I dont see how masons could be a part of the illuminati
from what I have read they speak against the black lodge or what I read in the arrows of lite the inversive brotherhood, not shure if the series of books were actual masonic study material or just written by a mason for other masons I just happend to find them while I was at a point in my life trying to decide weather I wanted to be a part of a group or not.

the reason I considerd masonry is I looked at my familly tree and saw a few that were masons or odd fellows on had the name of cyrus that was known for being very charitable and helping the community which hardly sounds like the actions of the illuminati.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS

I have seen references by people like Jack Straw that say that everyone obove the 27th degree is Illuminati, which would be plausible considering the highrachy of the order according to McClenechan's "The Book."
Hopefully when my ADSL arives


Which Jack Straw?
If you're talking about the MP, how would he know? He's rabidly anti-Freemasonry and is the guy personally responsible for bringing in draconian legislation regarding the Order.
As for your claim that Pike moved degrees around? That isn't logical. Pike only had influence in the Southern Jurisdiction of the US - not the rest of the world.



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