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The Trump administration has begun detaining US citizens indefinitely and without trial

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posted on Nov, 4 2017 @ 08:10 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
So are any Trump supporters going to call this out as wrong or just carry one talking about "ohhhh but Obama...."?


the patriot act was wrong right from the start everyone who voted for it is a traitor to the people of America.


Everything in the patriot act had been used before. What it did was allow the tactics they used to fight crime like the mob could be used for terrorist. When fighting the mob the feds didnt have to prove a crime was committed but that its likely a crime will be committed. The patriot act did the same thing doesnt have to wait until a terrorist act occurs but instead can intervene when it seems likely. Gave them the ability to prevent them instead of waiting until they occur.




posted on Nov, 4 2017 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: dragonridr
he was captured with Isis fighters. Id say that would be aiding the enemy. Or are we supposed to believe he was getting directions to the local quickie mart??


Then it should be an easy case to prove. So why won't they do it? Every US citizen is entitled to due process.





It would seem some of your countrymen are quite happy to do away with due process.... Scary times we live in.


Wasn't it Dubya that brought this rubbish in? Then Obama that never repealed it? Bit rich to try and just blame it all on the Trump era.





I don't know, I'm out of touch with legislated changes implemented by government. I think the puppets have little sway on the real world.

I'm far more concerned that Americans will throw their countrymen under a bus if they feel justified. We all have a right to due process and nothing should get in the way of that.



posted on Nov, 4 2017 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Just looked it up and yeah, was Dubya. Obama talked a big game about ending it but did as much as the Labour government did to real Thatcher's anti union laws.



posted on Nov, 4 2017 @ 10:59 PM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK
Wasn't it Dubya that brought this rubbish in? Then Obama that never repealed it? Bit rich to try and just blame it all on the Trump era.


If there was sufficient political will, it could be weakened through EO's right now, new procedures for the military could be written, and the NDAA and Patriot Act themselves could avoid being renewed (though that's still some years away). I hold W and Obama guilty for these crimes. Each administration stands alone though, and each one has furthered the abuses more in their own ways. What Trump is doing right now, is his own fault, no one elses. If he was the great reformer he claimed to be, he could put a stop to it.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 01:26 AM
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And ? They arrested a terrorist .



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 03:16 AM
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LOL,just like a mad liberal,blame something that was in place 12 yrs before he took office,this is getting to be worse then a joke,it's one thing posting political views,but when no truth involved these mods,seem to cherry pick ,let these trite comments be posted,all in the name of more revenue



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 03:21 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Why are we supposed to give a rat's hairy ass about an ISIS convert?



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 03:33 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
Here's the link

Information is starting to leak out about a US citizen being held in Iraq. The US claims he went to join ISIS but so far hasn't charged him with a crime. His name is being kept secret, and he has no access to legal representation. All that's known is that he's been held by order of Trump for two months now.

It seems Trump is moving forward with another campaign promise, where he stated he wanted to expand Guantamo, use it against US citizens, and use military tribunals rather than civilian courts.

Even if you assume everything the government has said in this case is true, it still involves arresting someone and detaining them for something they were going to do in the future, rather than something they've actually done.


if the individual in question went to join ISIS, and were caught by the military, then no, I honestly do not care what gets done with them. they become enemy combatants, and thus, traitors. I'm not sure, but I believe that even civillian treason cases have always been tried by courts martial, since it is, in effect, a crime very military/national security related in nature.

And I don't care that he got caught before joining ISIS, either. He had the intent to join them, and that is more than enough to hold him. The U.S. military would not be holding a U.S. civillian in custody unless they caught him on a raid of some ISIS hold, or to intercept. So he is as guilty for trying to join ISIS, but failing, as if he would if he succeeded.

I have a special loathing for westerners and especially Americans that will leave the country to go join a group like ISIS, who are legally, an enemy group of the U.S. And I do believe any citizen who goes there to join and fight with groups like ISIS has become an enemy combatant, and should be treated as one. Their rights as citizens, at that point, should be revoked.

So frankly, I don't care what happens to this individual. Gitmo sounds good to me.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

So the governments word is good enough? They shouldn't have to prove their case?



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

Why are we supposed to give a rat's hairy ass about an ISIS convert?


Because until the government provides a charge and proof for their case, they're detaining a citizen without due process. It's the same thing as kidnapping you and saying you're a terrorist but never going any further than that to justify their actions.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Erno86

wtf does that mean? you are the one justifying people joining a group of sub humans


"sub humans"

Interesting...



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: Aazadan
Here's the link

Information is starting to leak out about a US citizen being held in Iraq. The US claims he went to join ISIS but so far hasn't charged him with a crime. His name is being kept secret, and he has no access to legal representation. All that's known is that he's been held by order of Trump for two months now.

It seems Trump is moving forward with another campaign promise, where he stated he wanted to expand Guantamo, use it against US citizens, and use military tribunals rather than civilian courts.

Even if you assume everything the government has said in this case is true, it still involves arresting someone and detaining them for something they were going to do in the future, rather than something they've actually done.


if the individual in question went to join ISIS, and were caught by the military, then no, I honestly do not care what gets done with them. they become enemy combatants, and thus, traitors. I'm not sure, but I believe that even civillian treason cases have always been tried by courts martial, since it is, in effect, a crime very military/national security related in nature.

And I don't care that he got caught before joining ISIS, either. He had the intent to join them, and that is more than enough to hold him. The U.S. military would not be holding a U.S. civillian in custody unless they caught him on a raid of some ISIS hold, or to intercept. So he is as guilty for trying to join ISIS, but failing, as if he would if he succeeded.

I have a special loathing for westerners and especially Americans that will leave the country to go join a group like ISIS, who are legally, an enemy group of the U.S. And I do believe any citizen who goes there to join and fight with groups like ISIS has become an enemy combatant, and should be treated as one. Their rights as citizens, at that point, should be revoked.

So frankly, I don't care what happens to this individual. Gitmo sounds good to me.



It's all about the slippery slope...isn't it?

Once we open Pandora's box --- There's no telling what a U.S. president might do to justify any Tom, Dick or Harry as an 'enemy combatant,' who deserves no right to a fair trail, while being permanently incarcerated; with a bit of torture thrown in before being executed.

So keep hoping...you might just get you're wish, instead of depending on established democratic institutions, based on the U.S. Constitution.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: Erno86

savages, not worthy of the air they breath. barely worth the few ounces of lead. Better?


people who throw people off buildings for the partner they chose or stone women for getting raped or force women to cover their bodies or rape children or bomb markets, i can go on.


SAVAGES


ETA: Why do you see the need to defend this group that is unworthy of ANY sympathy? he is NOT innocent, he is in Iraq trying to join a EVIL group of people regardless of the motivation its worth of a death sentence, the one he would gladly dish out to others.

My brother and I both have dealt personally with these types of people and i feel like you have no idea what you are talking about. why not go over their your self and try to explain justice to them, they would cut your head off and put it on the internet.
edit on 5-11-2017 by penroc3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 08:40 AM
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Thread summary from MAGAts: "It's not wrong if Trump does it."



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Thread summary from MAGAts: "It's not wrong if Trump does it."

silly boy

trump is our only chance....he may turn bad and be the immoral leader in the bible....but better than having the other one elected....you know....the dogwoman ditch witch from arkansas



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You know ...you're getting worked up over Trump so mush and yet you're British..how about making some threads about Blair and the Gulf War?



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: penroc3




rebuilding is done through NGO's and other charity groups


No, rebuilding is done with Cheneys Halliburton Group.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

yes, to my point. no individual is going alone to rebuild without a institution behind them.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: penroc3


I'm talking about the effects of climate change on certain land territories & people, while not at all espousing myself to being a supporter of the Daesh --- Though Trump & the rest of the Republican party have backed-off (in Tweets of course) from supporting to send the truck-terrorist ISIS suspect from NYC to Gitmo --- Which is a good thing.

Understand?


edit on 5-11-2017 by Erno86 because: added a couple of words

edit on 5-11-2017 by Erno86 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-11-2017 by Erno86 because: added a sentence

edit on 5-11-2017 by Erno86 because: grammar



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
Here's the link

Information is starting to leak out about a US citizen being held in Iraq. The US claims he went to join ISIS but so far hasn't charged him with a crime. His name is being kept secret, and he has no access to legal representation. All that's known is that he's been held by order of Trump for two months now.

It seems Trump is moving forward with another campaign promise, where he stated he wanted to expand Guantamo, use it against US citizens, and use military tribunals rather than civilian courts.

Even if you assume everything the government has said in this case is true, it still involves arresting someone and detaining them for something they were going to do in the future, rather than something they've actually done.


I certainly HOPE you are informed enough to know, Barack Obama signed Indefinite Detentions into law on New Years Eve, 2011... with vociferous support from Lindsey Graham and John McCain and congress...

He was sued by the Chris Hedges and a host of other journalists... basically for violating the Bill of Rights, and Obama lost.

A Federal Judge then put a stay on the ruling... claiming National Security reasons.

This is pretty dog gone old news...



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