It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Do you know the truth? Is Jesus God? Find out here!

page: 1
12
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 06:54 AM
link   
I wrote the below test earlier today as a post and after thinking, I thought it would be good for all to see.

I notice that many are ready and available to bash the bible but does your study of God stop with the bible? Now before I get into it, I want to clarify before the atheist jump in to mock.... that gnostic and mystic teachings are considered heresy by the Apostles and the disciples. Gnostic does indeed branch out due to many different versions. Heresies such as the Gospel of Thomas, the entire NAG HAMMADI and others...

Today most Christians are unaware that a vast amount of writing from the apostles disciples still exits. There is a ten volume work by Eerdmans publishing, called the Anti-Nicean Fathers. This set contains most of the existent writings from the disciples up to Nicea in AD 325. Of course the most important church fathers to know are the apostles and the eyewitnesses of the Apostle John.

The Apostle John was banished from Asia Minor to the Isle of Patmos for being a Christian. While there he wrote the book of Revelation in 96 AD. When Emperor Domitian dies in 96AD his decrees were nullified and John was released from prison and went back to the Asian capital at that time, Ephesus and made that his headquarters for missionary work. John and his disciple Polycarp sent out missionaries.

The apostles disciples taught the same doctrines from generation to generation and documented when, who, why and where the first change in each doctrine when, who, why, and where the first change in each doctrine was made. Each time someone tried to change doctrine the church fathers attacked them as heretics and yet a few centuries later the same heresy became official church doctrine.

I am a proud Christian as most know here at ATS and it shocks me to see Christians discuss Rome and the Vatican as the church which was not built until late 300's so what about the FIRST 300 years before the Vatican was built and yet they (apostle disciples speak of church.... which we know to be the people and NOT a building)

Many either forgot and do not know that John the Apostle was released from prison and lived another 22 years and assisted in selecting CHRISTIAN bishops to send to other nations to preach the Gospel (most of these were the 70 disciples who Jesus sent out to preach the Gospel) and yet when Bishop LINUS (1st bishop of Rome NOT A POPE) entered the city ... from then on since Rome was the world super power it made Rome the city of God (Big mistake).

I recommend to everyone to research the apostles and their disciples in what was written. It will help you in understanding what has been taken away or added to. It will GROUND you with CLEAR basic teachings and sermons they give to the people.
These disciples of John clearly stated:

1. The divinity of Jesus. NUMBER ONE THING THEY PREACHED.... Jesus was God in the flesh!
1A. The Trinity ..... the father, the son and Holy Spirit are ONE!
2. No reincarnation.
2a. There will be a resurrection .... actually two.
3. Angels and mankind have FREE WILL to make up their own minds (soul).
4. OBE (Out of Body Experience) - your spirit can only leave its body when dead. Demons trick those who think OBE is real.
5. Your spirit does not dissolve when you die....
6. There is a hell.
7. There is a heaven.

These are a few things the Apostle Peter, John and Paul along with other disciples taught and are written down. If you are looking for answers then go back in time and read what the disciples have to say about Jesus and his teachings.

Read up on Cyprian, Tertullian, Clement of Rome, Origen, Irenaeus, Polykarp, Hippolytus, Justin Martyr, Papias, Barnabas, and many more..... continue to the fourth century and see for yourself the lies and deceit.

Seek and you shall find.




edit on 2-11-2017 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:02 AM
link   
a reply to: DeathSlayer

"3. Angels and mankind have FREE WILL to make up their own minds (soul)."

I am certainly not a Christian but this statement has caught my attention.

You suggest a lot of reading and research so could you point me in the right direction in the way of some links and help with looking into this aspect of your post please?



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:13 AM
link   
a reply to: nonspecific

Free Will



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:18 AM
link   
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Thank you but that looks more like a modern inrpretation as opposed to the historical writings that I was interested in.

Will listen anyway and add him to my big list as he seems like an interesting chap.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:25 AM
link   
a reply to: nonspecific

I am sure that many will ask for a direct quote like yourself and this is time consuming however I will do this for a few.

Titian, AD 166 - Volume Greeks 7 - Jesus created men and angels with free will. Jesus had foreknowledge of what free agents would do. There is no such thing as fate.

The official doctrine of the church has always been that man cannot do what is necessary for salvation by himself.

Justin Martyr AD 165 - Man acts by his own free will and not by fate.

Clement of Alexandria AD 192 - Christians teach saving faith is a gift that starts with God and is accepted by free choice.

I can go on.....but I think you catch the teaching.


EDIT LATER:

Tertullian AD 190-210 - Marcion 2.5 - Man has free will.

Minucius Felix, AD 210 - 36- The mind of man is free from birth and remains free throughout his life.

Mathetes ( a disciple of John) - Epistle to Diognetus 7 - Jesus. who is God come in the flesh, came to persuade, not compel us, to salvation because violence has no part in the character of God.

If you go to this link: www.holybooks.com...

near the end of the page is a link to the online PDF books for free. Have fun.


edit on 2-11-2017 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:35 AM
link   
Your suggestions to research thousands of years of religious is commendable but just as people don't have time to attend colleges in every specialty, this is not reality.
This is historical study that I myself, blinded by religious study as mandated by my parents, is overwhelming and does descend into historical story making-so far back that most cannot be verified.
I know you have the best intentions but most don't have your fervor to provide time nor access to the resources you have recommended.

The deceit and lies written from so many contradicting historical papers are mumbo jumbo storytelling at the worst-different cultures, different languages; many no longer even available in modern times Truth be told, it's power and politics-how to control the people.

This becomes a lesson of politics in the end with not much education in faith except by decrees of nefarious purposes.

After years of research through institutions and on my own, I say leave it to historians.


edit on 2-11-2017 by Justso because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:45 AM
link   
a reply to: DeathSlayer

One thing I have learned from ATS and that is anyone that claims to have “proof”, or saying jesus is god find out here or proof religion is right never have proof. It is called faith for a reason and that reason is there is no proof and you have to defy logic and take it on faith it is real.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:48 AM
link   
a reply to: Justso

In today's household often both parents must hold down a full time job (sometimes two)! And yes the volumes of books and documents are never ending BUT.... the information provided in the OP is most important to those who are confused as to who Jesus was and common ideas today involving God that are heretic teachings designed to misled and cause those "in the faith" to fall which can lead people to hell.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: DeathSlayer

One thing I have learned from ATS and that is anyone that claims to have “proof”, or saying jesus is god find out here or proof religion is right never have proof. It is called faith for a reason and that reason is there is no proof and you have to defy logic and take it on faith it is real.


This is hearsay and gnostic teachings which the disciples have attacked for thousands of years.

You are wrong and you call The apostles Peter, John, Paul and their disciples liars. There is plenty of proof which you do not know about.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
1. The divinity of Jesus. NUMBER ONE THING THEY PREACHED.... Jesus was God in the flesh!

For greater clarity, it ought to be affirmed that Christ is both God and man.
I rather dislike the "Jesus is God" slogan, and don't use it myself, because it doesn't reflect that balance (on which the early councils insisted) between the two natures of Christ.
It opens up the way to unconscious Docetism, when Christians neglect to think of Jesus as fully human.
It also opens up the way to the false argument " Here is a verse showing the humanity of Jesus, which shows that he can't have been God".

The early church found that understanding the doctrine of the Incarnation necessarily led them into a balanced understanding of the Trinity, as worked out at Chalcedon.So I always maintain that there is no point in arguing about the Trinity until the Incarnation has been accepted.

edit on 2-11-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:04 AM
link   
I do think Twain got it right in regards to religion:




posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:05 AM
link   
a reply to: DeathSlayer




The Apostle John was banished from Asia Minor to the Isle of Patmos for being a Christian. While there he wrote the book of Revelation in 96 AD.


Well that is not actually correct

en.wikipedia.org...


Some of the evidence for this was set out as early as the second half of the 3rd century by Pope Dionysius of Alexandria, who noted that the gospel and the epistles attributed to John, unlike Revelation, do not name their author, and that the Greek of the gospel is correct and elegant while that of Revelation is neither; some later scholars believe that the two books also have radical differences in theological perspective.[6]



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:10 AM
link   
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You are "accepting" to the op's teaching which is riddled with false prophesies. I am concerned with this type of post being taken at face value. Faith is personal and must be pursued as such. ATS is neither a Bible study class nor Religious college. There is so much info and it is so misinterpreted by so many that this is an impossible task unless given one'es life to the study and even then not possible.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:28 AM
link   

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
1. The divinity of Jesus. NUMBER ONE THING THEY PREACHED.... Jesus was God in the flesh!

For greater clarity, it ought to be affirmed that Christ is both God and man.
I rather dislike the "Jesus is God" slogan, and don't use it myself, because it doesn't reflect that balance (on which the early councils insisted) between the two natures of Christ.
It opens up the way to unconscious Docetism, when Christians neglect to think of Jesus as fully human.
It also opens up the way to the false argument " Here is a verse showing the humanity of Jesus, which shows that he can't have been God".

The early church found that understanding the doctrine of the Incarnation necessarily led them into a balanced understanding of the Trinity, as worked out at Chalcedon.So I always maintain that there is no point in arguing about the Trinity until the Incarnation has been accepted.


I agree with you 100% however gnostics came about based upon Jesus simply being a man which has brought about the divinity issue of Jesus, the virgin birth and resurrection and I see "young Christians" confused or simply understand Jesus was nothing more than a man which started with gnosticism and is very well alive today.

Too many warm like Christians who show doubt in their words and their lifestyles based on false teachings as Jesus being a man and forgetting he is God who will be judging them.

God came to us in the flesh and his name was Jesus, a part of the TRINTY.

You are considered an elder and your knowledge is widespread and I appreciate your words and teachings.

edit on 2-11-2017 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: DeathSlayer




The Apostle John was banished from Asia Minor to the Isle of Patmos for being a Christian. While there he wrote the book of Revelation in 96 AD.


Well that is not actually correct

en.wikipedia.org...


Some of the evidence for this was set out as early as the second half of the 3rd century by Pope Dionysius of Alexandria, who noted that the gospel and the epistles attributed to John, unlike Revelation, do not name their author, and that the Greek of the gospel is correct and elegant while that of Revelation is neither; some later scholars believe that the two books also have radical differences in theological perspective.[6]


If your beliefs are based on wikipedia then you are far from the truth.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You are "accepting" to the op's teaching which is riddled with false prophesies. I am concerned with this type of post being taken at face value. Faith is personal and must be pursued as such. ATS is neither a Bible study class nor Religious college. There is so much info and it is so misinterpreted by so many that this is an impossible task unless given one'es life to the study and even then not possible.


You speak of making excuses and nothing more.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:32 AM
link   
Why are texts which pre-date the Bible discounted? Wouldn't one want the oldest info possible?



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
Why are texts which pre-date the Bible discounted? Wouldn't one want the oldest info possible?


Those who search for the truth do research and it is vital especially in this subject matter because it deals with life and death for everyone.

There is plenty of data out here that is not hidden.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: DeathSlayer




The Apostle John was banished from Asia Minor to the Isle of Patmos for being a Christian. While there he wrote the book of Revelation in 96 AD.


Well that is not actually correct

en.wikipedia.org...


Some of the evidence for this was set out as early as the second half of the 3rd century by Pope Dionysius of Alexandria, who noted that the gospel and the epistles attributed to John, unlike Revelation, do not name their author, and that the Greek of the gospel is correct and elegant while that of Revelation is neither; some later scholars believe that the two books also have radical differences in theological perspective.[6]


You are attempting to confuse the OP by using terminology from the third century while I quote John's disciples from the first later half century and early second century ... a good 200 years before what you are quoting which of course is gnosticism.


edit on 2-11-2017 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 09:24 AM
link   
Even with what was written years after Jesus died,
He never claimed to be God. His disciples made that claim.



new topics

top topics



 
12
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join