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My Fellow Americans, Why Are We Such Suckers ?

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posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: seagull

Imagine having to explain stuff like that for 16 straight years (since 9/11). And having to constantly point out the 1st Amendment's "Freedom of Religion" clause, the 8th Amendment's "Cruel & Unusual Punishment" clause, and the 14th Amendment's "Equal Protections" clause.

And having to constantly remind people that "collective punishment" & "ethnic cleansing" are literal war crimes. And having to constantly remind people that the Western values they claim to be standing up for include concepts like "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" and "an individual is only responsible for his/her own actions".

It's easy for people to claim they stand for something during good times. But the test is how they act during bad times. And time and time again, people have proven that they don't really care about that stuff.

In some ways I think I've been bamboozled, because I seem to care more about the Constitution & Western-backed standards like the Geneva Conventions than many people here do. I'm far too arrogant & defiant steadfast to give up on those concepts, but the constant kneejerk reactions are taking their toll on my idealism.




posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 12:03 PM
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Make stuff up; that always seems to even things out for you.


For clarification, what exactly did I "make up"?

I was joshing you a little bit about yesterday's debate, but if you want to be a d**k about it, that's cool.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: Eshel




For clarification, what exactly did I "make up"?

I was joshing you a little bit about yesterday's debate, but if you want to be a d**k about it, that's cool.


"LOL RIGHT TO THE NAME-CALLING". Sound familiar? It was a lie, and now you're calling me names.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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Cripes. Why don't you two get a room? @@



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Done it more than a few times, as well.

It frustrates me no end that many who advocate against Muslims, would never dream of saying the same about any other group. Because it would, obviously, be wrong...yet they don't see it here. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for actual Muslims.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: seagull




Done it more than a few times, as well.

It frustrates me no end that many who advocate against Muslims, would never dream of saying the same about any other group. Because it would, obviously, be wrong...yet they don't see it here. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for actual Muslims.


Nazis seem to be roundly condemned.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

We believe that we will get rich from trickle down economics. How stupid is that. The one asset the middle class could attain, a house. Just got screwed in new tax cut for the rich.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: seagull


It frustrates me no end that many who advocate against Muslims, would never dream of saying the same about any other group. Because it would, obviously, be wrong...yet they don't see it here. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for actual Muslims.



Replace the word "Muslim" with "Jew" and a lot of the posts on ATS take a strikingly different tone.

If we become desensitised to islamophobia, anti-semitism will quickly follow.

After all, the Nazis were decent, hardworking people like us.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:43 PM
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Thing is - the recent incident involved a deranged guy. He wasn't recruited by ISIS.. he wasn't carrying out a mission from them.. he basically got sickly turned on by watching them kill innocents, and figured he was part of their cause. There are always crazy people who will be dangerous to others. Just because this particular whacko was influenced by ISIS, doesn't mean suddenly anyone of middle-eastern persuasion should be purged from the United States. It's laughably stupid.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Nazi's who actually did bad things, yes, and deservedly so. Nazi's who actually didn't do anything are as well, true enough. Do they deserve to be criticized? I don't know, nor do many others, if the angst filled debate here on ATS not all that long ago was any example. I would say, for the most part, no. Unless, or until, their actions leave them open to it. Just existing isn't reason enough.

Muslims who are peaceful law abiding citizens have done nothing to warrant what is, essentially, persecution. What has my neighbor and his family done to warrant this suspicion on the parts of many?? He works. Goes to mosque. Plays with his kids in the yard, when he isn't working around the place. He is, in many ways, an ideal neighbor. I could do without the Green Bay Packers flag he flies regularly...but that's just me.

We judge the bastards in Daesh harshly, and rightfully so. They're a blight on humanity as a whole, not just Islam. My neighbor is just a guy living as best he can, who just happens to be Muslim. If he hadn't mentioned going to Mosque, I doubt I'd even know he was.

I know I'm getting repetitive, but this is how I see it...and no amount of rhetoric (not from you) is likely to change that opinion.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 05:19 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: intrepid
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Muslims not Mexicans.

Mexican Muslims? Oh, the humanity!


Umm, yeah...So THAT's the m&m's this post is about



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Liquesence

That is a bumper sticker excuse that we hear all the time: Why lump all muslims into the same group. Here's why:

Maybe because these "peaceful" Islam worshippers were just everyday happy-go-lucky peaceful muslims the day before or the week before or the month before.

Then---BANG!---one day they shoot up a room full of fellow soldiers, mow down fellow citizens just riding bikes, or a room full of co-workers that had thrown a baby shower for them a few months earlier, and yell "Allahu Akbar" while doing it.

That's why they are lumped together. Nice and peaceful one day and a raving a$$ killing fanatic the next!!


just like white men, am i right? such nice quiet guys one day, the next day they're shooting up a concert... or a clinc... or a women's gym... or a college campus... or a movie theater... or an elementary school... or....



It's not the folk that are outwardly crazy that are worrisome, the real psychos seem to be the quiet, never heard a peep from him, good neighbor, kept the yard clean type of crazy that you just can't trust...seriously how many times have you heard of the guy in a wig on a street corner shouting at tiny dinosaurs in rainbow jackets going completely nuts and mowing down a preschool with a semiautomatic rifle??? It never seems to be the outwardly crazy ones....



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: seagull




Nazi's who actually did bad things, yes, and deservedly so. Nazi's who actually didn't do anything are as well, true enough. Do they deserve to be criticized? I don't know, nor do many others, if the angst filled debate here on ATS not all that long ago was any example. I would say, for the most part, no. Unless, or until, their actions leave them open to it. Just existing isn't reason enough.

Muslims who are peaceful law abiding citizens have done nothing to warrant what is, essentially, persecution. What has my neighbor and his family done to warrant this suspicion on the parts of many?? He works. Goes to mosque. Plays with his kids in the yard, when he isn't working around the place. He is, in many ways, an ideal neighbor. I could do without the Green Bay Packers flag he flies regularly...but that's just me.

We judge the bastards in Daesh harshly, and rightfully so. They're a blight on humanity as a whole, not just Islam. My neighbor is just a guy living as best he can, who just happens to be Muslim. If he hadn't mentioned going to Mosque, I doubt I'd even know he was.

I know I'm getting repetitive, but this is how I see it...and no amount of rhetoric (not from you) is likely to change that opinion.


I'm not going to try to change your opinion.In fact I agree with you. I oppose theocracy, totalitarianism, censorship, all of which are properties of Islam, but I'm not anti-religious or anti-Muslim. If anything, we need to protect Muslims from their own Ummah as they continue to fight each other in their superstitious civil war, which has been spilling out everywhere.

We don't, however, need to protect them from the very same ire and criticism that our free societies have afforded the other religions. We don't need to cower in fear at their violent posturing against our free expression, which has been getting more and more difficult to defend under the growing threat of Islamic retaliation. We don't need to condemn critics and reformers, many of whom are Muslim, in order to protect the sensibilities of the most extreme elements. If we don't fight the growing Islamist menace, it will be too late.

Anyways, sometimes all we should do is talk about it, so thank you for that.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese




Replace the word "Muslim" with "Jew" and a lot of the posts on ATS take a strikingly different tone.

If we become desensitised to islamophobia, anti-semitism will quickly follow.

Ironically, the largest group of Semites aren't Jews; they're Arabs. Arabic is also the most heavily spoken Semitic language and the Prophet Muhammad was a Semite. So the anti-Semitisim has already started.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

We are all such suckera because we all seceretly have owl fetishes...

Let that sink in.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

Well, as with most products... It really depends on where these M&Ms were manufactured as to the risk of contamination. Some countries tolerate more mouse poop in their cocoa beans than others.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: seagull

To be blunt, that's why a lot of Muslims don't even bother to engage in dialogue here. We're damned if we speak up & explain things and damned if we don't.

Bigots whine and complain if we move to their neighborhoods, go to their schools, and work in their companies. But they also complain if we stick to our own neighborhoods, start our own schools, and start our own companies. When we share our beliefs and invite others to come to our Holidays, we're accused of trying to indoctrinate them & of "creeping Sharia". But when we keep our beliefs & events to ourselves, we're accused of being a secretive cult. When we "assimilate" into society, we're accused of being sleeper agents, "hidden cells", spies, etc. But when we refuse to "assimilate", well, you've heard that too. ETA: And of course, us pacifist Muslims are accused of not doing enough to fight extremist groups. But when we stop being pacifists, take up military training, and decide to fight them, we're accused of being homegrown terrorists (I mean like the ones who leave the West to fight alongside Assad against ISIS).

Literally the only reasons I engage in dialogue on this stuff is because I'm naturally VERY outspoken and because my religious duties mandate that I at least get the info out there. But it helps to remember that I'm not a Sunni, Shiite, Salafi, Alawite, Ismaili, or member of the Nation of Islam, either. If I'm not mistaken, there are Hadith or Sunnah that say the Prophet Muhammad didn't even waste his time with belligerent non-believers. Supposedly, he would just say his "Salaams" and walk away. The Qur'an actually supports this by saying for us to simply tell disbelievers "unto you your beliefs and unto me mine" (HERE). But my specific path requires that I go several steps beyond that bare minimum.
edit on 2-11-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Kandinsky

Best to go full retard in times like these and just ban m&m's.


Or on the contrary "Best to go full retard in times like these and continue living thinking nothing is wrong". Heck, who cares if ISIS/Al Nushra has said they were infiltrating their maniac radical Muslims with Muslim refugees, in regions controlled by ISIS/Al Nushra.

BTW, what about all the thousands of Muslim refugees who have been attacking, using violence in European cities?... I am pretty certain the % is much, much higher than 1 in a million. What about all the sexual attacks by Muslim refugees on women in European nations which have allowed every Muslim refugee into their countries?...

Perhaps the only ones who knew what would happen were the Muslim rich countries which said they would not accept ANY Muslim refugee into their countries...


edit on 2-11-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

So do tell us, what does that make of Muslim rich nations that said they would not accept any Muslim refugee?... i guess they must be bigots who hate all Muslims huh?...



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:42 PM
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I'm not going to try to change your opinion.In fact I agree with you. I oppose theocracy, totalitarianism, censorship, all of which are properties of Islam, but I'm not anti-religious or anti-Muslim. If anything, we need to protect Muslims from their own Ummah as they continue to fight each other in their superstitious civil war, which has been spilling out everywhere.



You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.



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