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Grand Jury Docs Have Been Unsealed, and It’s Looking Even Worse for Manafort

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posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: theantediluvian

So, if you boss tells you to do something illegal there is nothing wrong with that? You will not get in trouble? Nice try.

It also does not matter who hired them. They did not file the correct paperwork. They did not disclose their actions. It is illegal. They did not file to hide what they did.

This is not right or left wing. I do not consider my self right wing. If the DNC or another party put up a better candidate in 2016 I would have voted for them. You assume to much sometimes.


No, you're not understanding. There were TWO groups — Podesta Group and Mercury. You keep talking about Podesta Group but you're ignoring Mercury.

Both of them are guilty of exactly the same thing. They were doing the exact same Ukrainian lobbying for Manafort. They are referenced as "Company A" and "Company B" in the indictment. I'm not defending Podesta Group at all, I'm trying to point out that that's there's ALSO this other group, Mercury, that you keep missing.

Which kinda illustrates what I was saying.


Have you been able to find anything on Mercury.

I spent about a half hour looking in to them, and cant find much.

I know they were founded by a Republican, and they seemed to work the republican angle more than democrats. But I didnt find if they were attached to any specific people.

The whole things a damn mess.

But I think its a win for the people that this is coming to light.

The biggest reason i voted for Donald was to show the corruption of the establishment, and how the major players on both parties are actually on the same corrupt team.

Ironically, this investigation; which could take trump himself down with it, may be the best chance of that happening.


Mercury Public Affairs

ballotpedia.org...

And their website

www.mercuryllc.com...
edit on 11/1/17 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I actually have to agree with you here. Honestly, I could not help but focus on the Podesta Group...since they were more familiar in the media and politics. I am not big in the political aspects nor who is who...but was curious to learn more about both lobbying firms.

This SITEis quite informative on what they have been reporting. Latest report update was on Oct 21, 2017.
Lots of info and details.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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So essentially, it is starting to look like the Russians wanted their bread buttered on both sides. They play chess. We've always known this.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Sorry man. I got you. I am not missing it as I was just focused on the Podesta Group because i find it very telling Tony Podesta stepped down. The Mercury Group should be handed the same charges as the Podesta Group. Just like I said Manafort needs to go if he was doing illegal shady deals.

Also, the ties to the Mercury Group are not as much interest as the Podesta Group because you have HRC and many in the Obama Administration who were assisting or at least in the know with the Podesta Group.




posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe


Which is where McCain comes in and makes it obvious to anyone looking that he is VERY involved in this mess.


You're going to have to help me out here because I'm not sure what connection you're making. I haven't read anything that ties ECFMU to McCain.

The FARA filings for Mercury and Manafort I believe only name one congressman and that's Dana Rohrabacher. Separate from that, there are claims made by a source to Tucker Carlson that on the Podesta end of things, there was some sort of undue influence on Hillary Clinton.

Rohrabacher admits to the meeting listed in the FARA file and it's pretty clear that in general, from several other lines of evidence, that he's a Kremlin shill in the US Congress. How he hasn't been expelled is beyond me.

As for the Clinton thing Carlson is pushing, I'll believe it when there's something to corroborate it. This lobbying was taking place from 2012-2014 from what I've gathered. (Clinton was SoS until February 1, 2013) If you look at her actions in this period, if there was actual attempts at influence, they don't seem to have been very successful by all outward indications.

I think it also bears mentioning at this point that aside from what Carlson is pushing, the available evidence is that they (Podesta Group and Mercury at Manafort's direction) were lobbying for Ukraine, specifically for Yanukovych's regime. Now a reasonable argument could be made that they were indirectly lobbying for Russia's interests because Yanukovych was Putin's bitch but even so, Ukraine under Yanukovych and Russia aren't precisely interchangeable.

Then again, there's also the fact that Manafort apparently signed a $10 million annual contract with Deripaska following a 2005 proposal, obtained by the AP, that said this:


“We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success,” Manafort wrote in the 2005 memo to Deripaska. The effort, Manafort wrote, “will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government.”


Where does McCain fit into any of this?



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Here is the letter from Caplin & Drysdale on behalf of The Podesta Group sent to the FARA Registration Unit on April 12, 2017.

In it, it basically says that TPG originally filed under the LDA because "The Centre" told them that The Centre's work didn't necessitate FARA registration. Basically, the entire letter claims ignorance because of trusting The Centre's word, and seeks to reclassify the word done for Manafort under FARA.

This was only done in reaction to heat put on Manafort.

If anyone on ATS reading this truly believes that The Podesta Group is not intelligent enough to look at the work that they were doing from 2012 and 2014, each time that they registered, and realize that they were acting as Agents for a Foreign Principal, they need "Deny Ignorance" tattooed on their foreheads as a reminder to try harder.

As I noted in another comment in response to Introvert, "willfully" and "knowingly" are not parts of 22 U.S.C. Section 612, so even if they plead ignorance, it doesn't seem like that is a defense that will work.

These aren't small start-up companies run by rookie politicians or businesspeople, these are both of those and then some--we are literally dealing with deep-state type folks, here, and anyone willing to accept "well, I didn't know" as an excuse by any of these players ought to just forfeit their right to live in a society.

But I agree with everything that you said concerning lobbying, and that a lack of enforcement of the law is what breeds this type of behavior.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Agreed on all parts, amigo. It defies logic that the 8th most money-spending lobbying firm in DC truly had no idea who they were actually working for. It reeks of CYA from start to finish. And even that appears to only be lip service CYA, because the amount of effort put in to it is minimal.

I've seen 15 year old shoplifters come up with better stories than Podesta Group seems to have come up with. Why, one might ask? Because the 15 year old has at least some concept that there are actual consequences to their actions, whereas lobbying firms are allowed to operate essentially free from consequence.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Check out all the peeps from Mercury that have worked with McCain, during his presidential campaign as well. It's a likely bet he's very tied into all of this.

www.google.com... 12&bih=790



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: theantediluvian

Check out all the peeps from Mercury that have worked with McCain, during his presidential campaign as well. It's a likely bet he's very tied into all of this.

www.google.com... 12&bih=790


It isn't as if McCain has been squeaky clean all his career with no whiff of corruption to him.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I've been caught up with work s# but what what I've found on Mercury in the news is mostly from 2013-14 when quite a lot of people it seems were not happy that Podesta Group and Mercury were lobbying for Party of Regions.

I don't know how this didn't go anywhere then except that Yanukovych was removed from power in early 2014 and whisked off to Russia by Putin.

In the FARA filings by Mercury and Manafort, a meeting with Rohrabacher is mentioned and he's confirmed it. The principals are Ed Kutler, who was senior assistant to Newt Gingrich for several years during his tenure as Majority Whip and Speaker of the House, and former Rep. Vin Weber (Minnesota, '81-'93).

There's an attorney who has filed complaints with the FEC that might be a useful jumping off point. He's been behind some other suits that clearly indicate that he's got a partisan bent (no more so than Toesing or similar I'll add) but it might be a useful jumping off point:


In 2013 and 2014, Jim Risch, Dana Rohrabacher and Ed Royce accepted contributions from a group of six lobbyists who were acting together. The lobbyists were foreign agents for the Ukraine Party of Regions and its front group, the European Centre For a Modern Ukraine. After making the contributions in their own names, the lobbyists were reimbursed by their foreign clients as part of a straw donor scheme.

At the time of the lobbying campaign, all of the lobbyists failed to register as foreign agents in violation of federal law. In 2017, the lobbyists belatedly admitted that they were foreign agents in filings made with the Department of Justice.

The payments were part of a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign orchestrated by Paul Manafort and his partner, Rick Gates. Manafort served as Donald Trump’s campaign manager inthe summer of 2016. Vin Weber, a former Congressman, participated in the lobbying and influence peddling campaign. Weber is and was a partner in Mercury Public Affairs, a lobbying company based in Washington, D.C.

The contributions coincided with meetings between the lobbyists and Risch, Rohrabacher and Royce. In the meetings, the lobbyists were lobbying in the interest of the Ukraine President, Victor Yanukovych, and the Ukraine Party of Regions. At the times when Risch, Rohrabacher and Royce met with the lobbyists and accepted contributions from them, matters concerning the Ukraine were pending before their respective committees. Senator Risch was serving on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Representatives Rohrabacher and Royce were serving on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: theantediluvian

Check out all the peeps from Mercury that have worked with McCain, during his presidential campaign as well. It's a likely bet he's very tied into all of this.

www.google.com... 12&bih=790


It isn't as if McCain has been squeaky clean all his career with no whiff of corruption to him.


There was also the scandal about the letter from the Russian government released by wikileaks where they state they received a request for financial contribution from McCain during his 2008 run.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Here is the connection to Manafort as well...


McCain actually met twice with Deripaska, a Russian businessman and Putin ally whose visa was blocked by the United States amidst intelligence community concerns about his ties to Moscow. The meetings were arranged by Manafort and his lobbying firm partner Rick Davis, who later would become McCain's campaign manager, according to interviews and documents. Deripaska, a metals magnet, is president of United Company RUSAL, and is considered to be one of the richest men in the world worth an estimated at $5.1 billion, according to Forbes.“My sense is that Davis and Manafort, who were already doing pro-Putin work against American national interests, were using potential meetings with McCain --- who didn't know this and neither did we until after the fact -- as bait to secure more rubles from the oligarchs,” John Weaver, one of McCain’s top advisers at the time, told Circa in an interview this month.

Davis was McCain's campaign manager in both 2000 and 2008. Manafort, who was Trump's campaign manager for a brief time, resigned in August 2016, over questions of prior work with Ukrainian political parties.

During the 2008 campaign, the Davis Manafort firm disclosed through its U.S. partner Daniel J. Edelman Inc., that it was working for the political party in Ukraine supporting Ukrainian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, who was backed by Putin.

"Davis Manafort International LLC is directed by a foreign political party, the Ukraine Parties of Regions, to consult on the political campaign in Ukraine," the January 2008 Foreign Agent Registration Act filing showed.

The work included developing "a communications campaign to increase Prime Minister Yanukovych's visibility in the U.S. and Europe," the report added, indicating that Davis and Manafort were being paid a $35,000 a month retainer for the work that began in spring 2007.


source



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

McCain's campaign manager was partnered with Manafort in their lobbying efforts for Montenegro, McCain was being wined and dined:


In mid-September The Nation‘s website published a photo of McCain celebrating his seventieth birthday in Montenegro in August 2006 at a yacht party hosted by convicted Italian felon Raffaello Follieri and his movie-star girlfriend Anne Hathaway. On the same day one of the largest mega-yachts in the world, the Queen K, was moored in the same bay of Kotor. This was where the real party was. The owner of the Queen K was known as “Putin’s oligarch”: Oleg Deripaska, controlling shareholder of the Russian aluminum giant RusAl, currently listed as the ninth-richest man in the world, with a rap sheet as abundant as his wealth.
...
Despite rampant Russophobia among Republicans, Deripaska turned to powerful GOP figures to solve his problem–especially to Republicans connected with McCain. In 2003 Deripaska hired former presidential candidate Bob Dole, who had nearly picked McCain as his running mate, and Dole’s lobbying partner Bruce Jackson (also a McCain aide) to lobby the State Department to overturn the visa ban, according to Glenn Simpson and Mary Jacoby of the Wall Street Journal. Over the next few years Dole’s firm, Alston & Bird, was paid more than $500,000 to push for Deripaska’s visa.
...
Publicly McCain and his campaign chief’s lobbying firm were on opposite sides. In 2005 McCain had nominated Orange Revolution hero Yushchenko for the Nobel Prize, and that spring he’d honored Yushchenko in the headquarters of the International Republican Institute, whose board McCain has chaired since 1993. But behind the scenes the former head of IRI’s Moscow office, Philip Griffin, was recruited by Manafort to work on Yanukovich’s campaign against Yushchenko. Davis Manafort’s work was considered so detrimental to US interests that a National Security Council official called McCain’s office to complain, according to the New York Times. The McCain campaign denies receiving the NSC complaint.


The Nation


And that's how McCain figures in to this.
edit on 1-11-2017 by jadedANDcynical because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: aethertek
Read the article, but it distills down to this.

The presiding Judge for the Manafort indictments found the evidence so compelling that Manaforts lawyer was implicated & forced to testify about his role in aiding continuing criminal activity.



Judge Beryl A. Howell decided to compel grand jury testimony from a lawyer representing Manafort and Gates under the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege.




However, privileges are not absolute; among other exceptions is the “crime-fraud” exception to attorney-client privilege. Under this exception when a privileged relationship is used to further a crime, fraud, or other misconduct, the lawyer doesn’t get to use that relationship as a shield.





Mueller’s office would have had to prove that the lawyer in question made the communication with the intent to further an unlawful or fraudulent act, and that Manafort and Gates actually carried out the crime or fraud. In other words, the judge at the grand jury proceeding found that there was plenty of evidence that Manafort and Gates had committed crime or fraud.


The Judges decision,



“Through its ex parte production of evidence, the SCO has clearly met its burden of making a prima facie showing that the crime-fraud exception applies by showing that the Targets were “engaged in or planning a criminal or fraudulent scheme when [they] sought the advice of counsel to further the scheme.”

lawnewz.com...

OUCH!
K~


Nice. So no shield for what he did from 2006-2014 as long as this attorney was the same one then. I bet the Podestas are freaking out over this news right now because it means regardless of what their attorney covers under privilege, Manaforts has to talk....LOL!


I don't know how much Manafort plans on talking.
He pleaded not guilty, but that might simply for a full look at the evidence against him.

Other interesting news is that it came out he has 3 different passports and also traveled to Mexico and China with a fake name on email and burner phone.


My guess is those passports and travels were used to open more accounts/businesses in different areas. While the indictment lists what they found so far, I would bet there are more accounts spread around and more front businesses that they have run money through.



Former Donald Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his longtime business associate Rick Gates were indicted by a federal grand jury on 12 charges, including conspiracy against the U.S., special counsel Robert Mueller's office announced Monday.


www.nbcnews.com...

Isn't there a WORD that describes "conspiracy against the U.S. government"? Hm I wonder what that could be?



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian
More of a reply, to a reply thing ..

First result from gogol (interesting, posted in july this year) McClatchy - John McCain faces questions in Trump-Russia dossier case

WASHINGTON Sen. John McCain faces questions in a defamation lawsuit about leaks leading to publication of the now-infamous dossier that alleged Donald Trump’s campaign had connections to Russian operatives, McClatchy has learned.

The dossier compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele and his London firm, Orbis Business Intelligence Ltd., amounted to a collection of uncorroborated reports of collusion gathered as political research for sale to Trump’s opponents.

It proved explosive when published by online news site BuzzFeed on Jan. 10. Now, two lawsuits — one in the United States and a second in the U.K. — are being brought by lawyers for Aleksej Gubarev, a Cyprus-based Internet entrepreneur whom Steele’s Russian sources accused of cyber spying against the Democratic Party leadership.

According to a new court document in the British lawsuit, counsel for defendants Steele and Orbis repeatedly point to McCain, R-Ariz., a vocal Trump critic, and a former State Department official as two in a handful of people known to have had copies of the full document before it circulated among journalists and was published by BuzzFeed.


Then there's this from the Graun, in January, the same day as the Buzzfeed article:

John McCain passes dossier alleging secret Trump-Russia contacts to FBI


Senator John McCain passed documents to the FBI director, James Comey, last month alleging secret contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow and that Russian intelligence had personally compromising material on the president-elect himself.

The material, which has been seen by the Guardian, is a series of reports on Trump’s relationship with Moscow.

They were drawn up by a former western counter-intelligence official, now working as a private consultant...


We think we know now who "the source" is
We've been thnking that Steele is the source
who is his source ?


.. BuzzFeed on Tuesday published the documents, which it said were “unverified and potentially unverifiable”.

An official in the US administration who spoke to the Guardian described the source who wrote the intelligence report as consistently reliable, meticulous and well-informed, with a reputation for having extensive Russian contacts.

Some of the reports – which are dated from 20 June to 20 October last year – also proved to be prescient, predicting events that happened after they were sent.

One report, dated June 2016, claims that the Kremlin has been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump for at least five years, with the aim of encouraging “splits and divisions in western alliance”.

It claims that Trump had declined “various sweetener real estate deals offered him in Russia” especially in developments linked to the 2018 World Cup finals but that “he and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals.”

Most explosively, the report alleges: “FSB has compromised Trump through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him.” The president-elect has not responded to the allegations.


Did Mcain get it straight from Steele ?

How about this : Mcain was indeed an original recpient
and passed it on to the FBI and Comey
Mcain was just "doing his duty"

Comey/ FBI are obliged to follow through..
And that's where we are

edit on 1/11/17 by Damiel because: Simple housekeeping




posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll

This doesn't mean what you think it means.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: theantediluvian

McCain's campaign manager is partnered with Manafort in their lobbying efforts for Montenegro, McCain is being wined and dined:


In mid-September The Nation‘s website published a photo of McCain celebrating his seventieth birthday in Montenegro in August 2006 at a yacht party hosted by convicted Italian felon Raffaello Follieri and his movie-star girlfriend Anne Hathaway. On the same day one of the largest mega-yachts in the world, the Queen K, was moored in the same bay of Kotor. This was where the real party was. The owner of the Queen K was known as “Putin’s oligarch”: Oleg Deripaska, controlling shareholder of the Russian aluminum giant RusAl, currently listed as the ninth-richest man in the world, with a rap sheet as abundant as his wealth.
...
Despite rampant Russophobia among Republicans, Deripaska turned to powerful GOP figures to solve his problem–especially to Republicans connected with McCain. In 2003 Deripaska hired former presidential candidate Bob Dole, who had nearly picked McCain as his running mate, and Dole’s lobbying partner Bruce Jackson (also a McCain aide) to lobby the State Department to overturn the visa ban, according to Glenn Simpson and Mary Jacoby of the Wall Street Journal. Over the next few years Dole’s firm, Alston & Bird, was paid more than $500,000 to push for Deripaska’s visa.
...
Publicly McCain and his campaign chief’s lobbying firm were on opposite sides. In 2005 McCain had nominated Orange Revolution hero Yushchenko for the Nobel Prize, and that spring he’d honored Yushchenko in the headquarters of the International Republican Institute, whose board McCain has chaired since 1993. But behind the scenes the former head of IRI’s Moscow office, Philip Griffin, was recruited by Manafort to work on Yanukovich’s campaign against Yushchenko. Davis Manafort’s work was considered so detrimental to US interests that a National Security Council official called McCain’s office to complain, according to the New York Times. The McCain campaign denies receiving the NSC complaint.


The Nation


And that's how McCain figures in to this.


There is also the tie to Edelman, the Podestas and the Saudis as well....everyone wonders why you hear nothing bad about the Saudis...its because the Podestas and Edelman have been running their PR campaigns in the US, essentially making sure no bad press comes out.

And folks still believe the news isn't controlled by the govt....funny stuff!

Wondering how it equates to money....remember the bill that was introduced to allow folks to sue the Saudis for 911....

www.washingtonpost.com...


The Saudi government has threatened to sell up to $750 billion in Treasury securities and other U.S. assets if the bill is passed. A White House spokesman on Monday hinted that Obama would veto the measure if Congress were to pass it.

It is unclear whether lobbyists and PR representatives for Saudi Arabia are actively aiming to influence members of Congress or the administration on that particular bill. Leaders at the firms either declined to comment or did not return requests for comment for this story.



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Interesting.

Perhaps that is why people like Newt was voraciously against any investigation.

Maybe they knew the dominoes would lead to them



posted on Nov, 1 2017 @ 04:01 PM
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I'm getting a sinking feeling that these two lobbying firms have been the main clearinghouses for dirty foreign influence peddling, and what we're going to see is basically a version of the ACORN takedown. All sound a fury signifying nothing. A few heads will roll, but the main operations will more or less scatter away to new clearinghouses in the swamp and business will continue as usual.



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