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Grand Jury Docs Have Been Unsealed, and It’s Looking Even Worse for Manafort

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posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: dragonridr

Meh. I'm not in the habit of trying to debate somebody who's demonstrated that they're willing to go back and edit posts to try and change their arguments.

For the third time: I said on page one I didn't see why, nor agree with, the OP and his source putting the spin on it that they did. But, that being said, the source is a blog and not a reputable journalist. It's an opinion piece, and it may be an opinion based off a faulty understanding of the grand jury process, but it's still an opinion and not fake news.

The subsequent pages worth of arguing has just been you trying to be right about something, when nobody else is even arguing about the topic you've shifted to try and argue about. Everybody you've engaged with knows that the judge isn't the one that heard testimony, so all your arguments about that point have been a waste of server space and time.


And yet you still try to defend the fake news oh the irony. You yourself admit the opinion is wrong and they lack understanding of grand juries. But refuse to admit its fake news? This article was written to sway opinions with no basis in reality. Your support for it says more about you then me. But hey throw up strawmen to defend fake news.This is the biggest problem we have people ignore facts because they want things to be true. If the article wanted to discusd facts yes manafort is in trouble but to make up reasons to validate his beliefs is fake news.




posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: soberbacchus

Martha Stewart didn't squeal.


Who the hell could she squeal on? Herself?



People make deals you would never know about and he winds up taking a plea and doing a few years of Federal Prison Time. He comes out and he goes to his offshore accounts and he is back in business.



Right. He is 68 and hasn't worked an honest day in his life. He spent 1.3 Million on clothes...He is not the type to spend any of his remaining days behind bars. He will squeal in trade for reduced sentence or probation. We wont hear about it until crap hits the fan.


No he wont your right ill bet Trump would commute any sentence he got. He will use hs age as the reason. In fact ill gi as far as saying Trump would have told him this.


You still seem to be playing catch up.

Mueller involved state level prosecutors as he built his case.
The indictment was Federal, but there is a State level case in waiting if Trump looks to pardon and pardons don't cover state charges.

Investigations of Manafort in New York Are Beyond Trump’s Power to Pardon
www.nytimes.com...


Csnt be tried twice for the same crime. Mueller has to choose either state of federal. He chose federal court because sentences are greater for one.Though state courts are easier to prove.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I'm just gonna LEAVE this here for all the Trump-bots:



What dream - The charges against Manafort have nothing to do with Trump, and he is not flipping on him - he has already told this to his friend Roger Stone.

You are the one dreaming, praying that this somehow will affect Trump - it won't.



Politics aside...Manafort spent millions on socks and suits alone. He enjoys his lifestyle. G. Gordan Liddy he is not. Manafort will squeal the minute it looks like he will serve more than 24 hours behind bars.


Perhaps if there was any real info to squeal on - but there isn't, and he has enough character and patriotism not to make up a pack of lies to save his own skin at the cost of starting a civil war.

Odds are definitely with him beating the charges anyway, only one person has ever been convicted for FARA.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Except there's this little thing called dual sovereignty which means that if you broke both a federal and state law while committing a particular act, both entities can try you for it in their respective court jurisdictions.

If you break New York tax laws and Federal tax laws, both governments can charge and try you for it.

What double jeopardy is, and what it isn't.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: soberbacchus

Do you really think she could not have dropped a dime on people doing the exact same thing. She kept her mouth shut and got her button. Now she is out earning again. Like organized crime. It is usually a low level person who discloses it. In her case his name was Doug Faneuil. She got 5 months for short-selling.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: dragonridr

Except there's this little thing called dual sovereignty which means that if you broke both a federal and state law while committing a particular act, both entities can try you for it in their respective court jurisdictions.

If you break New York tax laws and Federal tax laws, both governments can charge and try you for it.

What double jeopardy is, and what it isn't.


True but would have toprove he avoided NY state taxes the accusations are from california and Florida. Meaning New york has zero jurisdiction. To try him going to have to show he avoided paying taxes toNew York unlikely since Mueller isnt even going after him for tax fraud, he should by the way looks like he has a case. Reason he didnt is the question.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I'm just gonna LEAVE this here for all the Trump-bots:



What dream - The charges against Manafort have nothing to do with Trump, and he is not flipping on him - he has already told this to his friend Roger Stone.

You are the one dreaming, praying that this somehow will affect Trump - it won't.



Politics aside...Manafort spent millions on socks and suits alone. He enjoys his lifestyle. G. Gordan Liddy he is not. Manafort will squeal the minute it looks like he will serve more than 24 hours behind bars.


Perhaps if there was any real info to squeal on - but there isn't, and he has enough character and patriotism not to make up a pack of lies to save his own skin at the cost of starting a civil war.

Odds are definitely with him beating the charges anyway, only one person has ever been convicted for FARA.


Wouldnt be sure of that i dont think manafort worries about things like morals. If he gets in trouble hell make a deal. And yes he could damage Trump on something im sure. Problem is at the moment he has no reason to cooperate. Sine its not likely a conviction would get him anything but probation and a fine.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

New York isn't looking at him for tax evasion, so why would they have to prove he avoided state taxes?



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr


And yet you still try to defend the fake news oh the irony.


Literally from page one I have done the exact opposite. Fourth time I've said this now.


But refuse to admit its fake news?


It's an opinion piece on a blog. I don't consider it news, period.


Your support for it says more about you then me.


See line #1 of my answer. Fifth time I've said it.


But hey throw up strawmen to defend fake news.


Pointing out your use of the edit function to fundamentally change your initial comment that sparked the entire debate you wanted to have is not a strawman.


This is the biggest problem we have people ignore facts because they want things to be true.


I don't want it to be true, and in fact said that it wasn't. Sixth time I've said this now.

If you're going to insist on continuing a debate that nobody else is really interested in having (because, for the seventh time, most of us have said the OP is wrong in the slant it's putting on it, including myself), don't base your continued arguing on something that I've repeatedly shown to not be true. Which, if you're confused, is that the slant the OP and the blog they used as a source put on the information is wrong, and your continued claims that anybody who disagrees with you on what you originally said (then went back and edited) somehow "supports" the premise of the OP . (Eighth time saying it.)

There's literally zero point in continuing to engage with you, because you've resorted to simply making things up and claiming it must be the case because I disagreed with your initial comment (the one you edited so it was drastically different in it's point). You're spot on (yay for you!!!): the judge didn't hear any arguments about what Manafort is alleged to have done. A point which nobody has contended, other than the OP.

We're done here.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I'm just gonna LEAVE this here for all the Trump-bots:



What dream - The charges against Manafort have nothing to do with Trump, and he is not flipping on him - he has already told this to his friend Roger Stone.

You are the one dreaming, praying that this somehow will affect Trump - it won't.



Politics aside...Manafort spent millions on socks and suits alone. He enjoys his lifestyle. G. Gordan Liddy he is not. Manafort will squeal the minute it looks like he will serve more than 24 hours behind bars.


Perhaps if there was any real info to squeal on - but there isn't, and he has enough character and patriotism


You do know we are talking about Paul Manafort right?


Odds are definitely with him beating the charges anyway, only one person has ever been convicted for FARA.


FARA is the least of 12 Counts. You guys don't seem to be actually reading stuff you talk about.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:04 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I'm just gonna LEAVE this here for all the Trump-bots:



Guessing you didn't read the indictment....the fraud is all from his days with the dems....2006-2014....and the Podestas in particular.


Hey, you are talking about DanteGaland, did you expect him/her to actually read the news source?... Of course he, and the Obama/Shllary-bots would try to link this to President Trump in their delusional rants.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Now your a liar on top of it i havnt used an edit feature to chang anything i said. The fact of the matter is you injected yourself into a conversation where you were clueless as to what was said. In the future might i suggest reading a thread before commenting. If you need help with comprehension id advise a dictionary.

So for the sixth time the article was fake news and i think you finnally get it.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 08:35 PM
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Here talks about his first day in court. The only thing i hadnt heard was him having multiple passports. Somehow that means he was doing something wrong?


www.chicagotribune.com...



posted on Nov, 3 2017 @ 08:08 PM
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More bad news for the acolytes,,,

Cyprus Gave Manafort’s Bank Records to Mueller Team, Sources Say



The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation has asked Cyprus to allow its agents to gather testimony from accountants, bankers, lawyers and state officials in Cyprus about the Manafort case, Nicosia-based Politis reported, without saying how it knew. The FBI is waiting for a court in Cyprus to approve its request, the agency said.


Well lets see if this pans out, needs confirmation but considering the scope of Muellers investigation I'd be surprised if they didn't explore these avenues.




In all, prosecutors allege that more than $75 million flowed through the offshore accounts set up by Manafort and Gates, the bulk of which were in Cyprus. The indictment detailed $12 million of payments from those accounts for Manafort’s personal real estate purchases and goods and services in the U.S. The case is U.S. v. Manafort, 17-cr-201, U.S. District Court, District of Columbia (Washington).

www.bloomberg.com... cialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics

K~



posted on Nov, 21 2017 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: darkbake
From the Podesta Group's perspective:

The Podesta Group has repeatedly insisted that it was unaware that Manafort was using the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine to improve the image of then-Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych.

The Podesta Group's work for ECFMU, a nonprofit think tank, was in support of Ukraine's admission to the EU, a position supported by foreign policy experts at the time. The ECFMU provided formal certification that it was neither funded by nor directed by a government or political party."

CNN

I'm no legal expert, so I'm not sure if that means anything. I've heard that Mueller is investigating the Podesta Group, I'm not against that.

I guess you could say that the Podesta Group had good reason to believe that they were not working for a foreign government.


Update : Judicial Watch Sues State Department for Podesta Group Records


(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the U.S. Department of State for all records about the Podesta Group Inc. and the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, which have both been connected to the recent special counsel indictment of Paul Manafort (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of State (No. 1:17-cv-02489)).



posted on Nov, 21 2017 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: aethertek

About lobbyist and Cyprus, Manafort is not the only one hidding offshore assets over there.

Magnitsky Act mastermind seeks to stop Cyprus from revealing his offshore assets to Russia



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