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"Bush lied, people died" "Obama killed, we were thrilled"

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posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Ameilia
a reply to: Grambler

It is the exact same with privacy issues. Even person even remotely liberal was losing their minds over the Patriot Act and how violated they felt by this unneeded government interference. All of those same people were silent when Obama continued and expanded these 'privacy violations' which somehow weren't, because, Obama. I have never understood this.


again, i was also unhappy about this. i really wonder where you guys check in with your liberals because i've been sharing angry news about this crap the whole time :/




posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

No, and here is why.

I never once heard an Obama supporter, a genuine Obama supporter from back in the day, when he had a movement, rather than an administration, suggest genocide or ethnic cleansing.

I heard that nonsense from the far right every day for two years though, right before your golden idiot got elected.


And just to be clear, if trump supporters grow to powerful you recommend a genocide to eliminate them, right?



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: theantediluvian

Well I called out just about all of the things you mention on trump, including his change in the Syrian war.

Including his connections to neocons and meeting people like Kissinger.

Including ramping up military bases around the world.

So what's your point?


And lots of people on the Left called out Obama for the drone strikes and for the arming "rebels" (who are actually Al Qaeda affiliates) in Syria too.

Your issue is that not enough people called out Obama? I don't see very many among Trump's supporters calling out Trump for much of anything. Sure, there are exceptions here and there. I remember you doing it re: Syria in particular at the time but it's not exactly a popular topic of discussion among Trump supporters as a whole, is it?

In fact, when I talk about about how much drone strikes are up under Trump, everyone is instantly shocked.

So it seems to me that people aren't paying much attention this go around either. And we can blame the reporting but I bet you if I go to Google right now and type "Obama drone strikes" I'm going to get a bunch of pieces from MSM sources, very liberal leaning sources and the same sources that are now reporting on Trump:

Obama’s covert drone war in numbers: ten times more strikes than Bush (from the same folks who authored the study about drone strikes quadrupling under Trump)

This is from the very left-leaning The Atlantic:

Obama's Weak Defense of His Record on Drone Killings

NY Times (also a source I linked in other post):

Obama s Embrace of Drone Strikes Will Be a Lasting Legacy

The Intercept (another source I linked in the other post):

Obama Administration Finally Releases Its Dubious Drone Death Toll

Hell, even Teen Vogue got in on the action:

Obama's Drone Warfare Is Something We Need to Talk About

Here's my point. The information was there. People choose what they care about. A lot of Obama supporters chose to look the other way then just like a lot of Trump supporters (as demonstrated by posts in this very thread) have been looking the other way under Trump and will continue to do so even if he's worse than Obama.

What's more likely to yield effective change in US foreign policy?

Drawing attention to the last administration's bad policy and malfeasance or drawing attention to what's going on with the current administration which is arguably worse in many cases and demonstrably so in some?



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: Ameilia
a reply to: Grambler

It is the exact same with privacy issues. Even person even remotely liberal was losing their minds over the Patriot Act and how violated they felt by this unneeded government interference. All of those same people were silent when Obama continued and expanded these 'privacy violations' which somehow weren't, because, Obama. I have never understood this.


again, i was also unhappy about this. i really wonder where you guys check in with your liberals because i've been sharing angry news about this crap the whole time :/


The people I am referencing with this statement are:

People I knew in real life. I knew their full names, spouses, occupations, where they lived, etc.

People I knew for many years. I'm *not* talking about someone I met once, rather people I would consider friends, or who are related to me.

People who were openly Democrat and had been for years. I was not surprised during conversations that happened under Bush to hear these people speak out against the war or speak out against the Patriot Act. Based on what I knew about their political beliefs plus previous conversations, their stance on these issues was not surprising.

People who were able to discuss their reasoning for being anti-war and anti-Patriot Act. Using a normal tone of voice, able to state exactly what their problem(s) were on a point by point basis, offer alternative ideas, good conversation skills, discussion fits in with what I know of them/their personality.

People who I *still knew* once Obama was elected. These *same* people suddenly NOT upset regarding privacy, defending Obama's privacy invading administration, unable to explain why this was OK, unable to explain the difference between Bush doing it V Obama doing it, suddenly inarticulate during conversations.

People who are various: different ages, races, backgrounds, different jobs from blue collar to white collar. Different education levels and life experiences.

MANY PEOPLE. I did not experience with one or two people, rather with dozens.

All my comments on this topic relate *mostly* to privacy, just a little bit to war. For some reason, the privacy was discussed more in my circles.

I am glad to see there are others who also experienced this. I always thought it was so strange and never had an explanation.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I think he was talking about the media, celebrities, and other influential people such as professors on college campuses. Which no when a democrat is in office you don't hear hardly close to the same outrage over these issues as you do when its a Republican...it all boils down to people who have chosen a side and feel the need to defend their side as opposed to defending morals which could be universally applied. This also has a lot to do with how dumb the general population has gotten...which is by design.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

it's strange out of all the claims in the op, with no sources, but one that says the US was arming people again...the only query for verification you are asked for are what are against Trump or to show where the 'left' spoke against Obama's admin drone strikes.


originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: theantediluvian




And drone strikes under Trump have quadrupled.

source please




posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: theantediluvian

it's strange out of all the claims in the op, with no sources, but one that says the US was arming people again...the only query for verification you are asked for are what are against Trump or to show where the 'left' spoke against Obama's admin drone strikes.


originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: theantediluvian




And drone strikes under Trump have quadrupled.

source please




Must have missed that part about Qatar's prime minister admitting that the Obama admin actually armed am nursa and basically started the Syrian war.

But still no comment from high minded people like you.
edit on 31-10-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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The Afghani regime was Nazi level evil...

Those wars should continue until every single person who subscribes to the bereft ethos is allowed to meet their cadre of virgins...

Spare me any moral relativism...

-Chris



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: theantediluvian

it's strange out of all the claims in the op, with no sources, but one that says the US was arming people again...the only query for verification you are asked for are what are against Trump or to show where the 'left' spoke against Obama's admin drone strikes.


originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: theantediluvian




And drone strikes under Trump have quadrupled.

source please



What a day when a request for a source is questioned at ATS.....
Good Day.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I am mostly referencing people with some power. Like those in media, politocs, academia, and cultural areas like music etc.

But sure, no doubt there are hypocrites on all sides.

Hell I admit I am a hypocrite at times, we all are.

But to many on the left, the biggest issue after Bush was war crimes.

All of the sudden, with obama, that wasn't a reason to reject him outright, or Hillary for that matter.

I didn't see many conservatives calling out Bill Clinton for war crimes, and then excusing Bush.

Most comservtives that called out Bill also called out Bush.

Look at this thread, we have the person in charge of Qatar saying he has proof the U.S. under Obama armed am nursa and basically started the Syrian war.

And not one person calling me out have even mentioned it.

Why?

Many people on the left said that supporting war crimes made some on evil. And yet some of those same people either supported or claimed that despite them Obama was still ok, or his supporters somehow better than others.

We even have a member that would like to eliminate all trump supporters of they get too strong because the far right wants geonicide.

And again, no one calls this out.

This is indicative of the moral posturing and virtual signaling I was mentioning.

War crimes are the most disgusting thing, but some bad people Like trump so we may need to eliminate them all. And no one says whoa that's crazy.

Of course that's extreme and only from an ats member, but it shows how the hypcritical nature of this issue.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

That's right, shift all the attention from Obama by pointing entirely at drones strikes so then you can make it all about Trump.

How long are you going to dodge me on the real issues of overthrowing governments and using Al Qaeda as the boots on the ground to do it???

Here's the third time I'm challenging you now:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 31-10-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

It doesn't matter what war, what timeframe or who is president or the geographic location of the war.

We, the little people, only know what we are told my the media and the politicians.

The truth?

I don't think we'll ever know the truth of things.

We argue and fight and bicker amongst ourselves on information that is trickled out and designed to appease, mollify, or irritate and anger us.


C'est la via.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian


And lots of people on the Left called out Obama for the drone strikes and for the arming "rebels" (who are actually Al Qaeda affiliates) in Syria too.


Who? There was no Hollywood protests. There was no Hollywood outcry. There was no media onslaught. Instead the press worked dutifully to attack Obama's critics and almost never mention anything having to do with his foreign policy (or complete lack there of)



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:41 PM
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I think this only proves the President is simply a figurehead, the head cheerleader for our country in war or peace. The agenda remained the same from one to the next which tells me the real power is elsewhere. Maybe in the swamp is one place to start looking? At least to find the government "enablers" that help carry out the military/industrial/banking complex agenda of endless war and debt..



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Grambler

Bush lied, people died. Obama killed, we were thrilled. Trump's as bad and you're not mad?


I am, but consistently so across all three administrations.

Just curious, were you?



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 01:56 PM
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Our Congress could end it. Don't fund it. But there is no public will because voters have been convinced we are safer over there.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




And drone strikes under Trump have quadrupled.


In what war? What new war is the USA in since Trump took office? Were still cleaning up Obamas mess.

God you guys are hypocrites.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Grambler

Bush lied, people died. Obama killed, we were thrilled. Trump's as bad and you're not mad?


I am, but consistently so across all three administrations.

Just curious, were you?


He has no respect for "Murica". He hates America and wants to see it go down. People that care about it dont call it "Murica".



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I understand your sentiment and I can pretty much agree with the general consensus...but it doesn't apply to me. That's the reason I didn't like nor support a second Obama term. I believe that the wars we have been waging since 2001/2002 are a direct result of the military industrial complex complicit with the banking industries, and our intelligence agencies meddling in the area since the late 1940's.



posted on Oct, 31 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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Ive said before, but how far must the farce go before a majority see the presidency for what it is...a sham!

Back in the 60's they learned that they could actually kill the Commander in Chief, but it was problematic, not to mention expensive. For some time after that various front men have been installed to keep the show running, evident by the steady continuance of aggresive american foreign policy. Brezinkis 'Grand Chess Game' had it nailed from the start and pretty much seems to be on track today.

The shocking part for me was their arrogance in 'installing' Barack Obama as president, they must have had a hoot at that one. Blatant nepotism brazenly shoehorned Bush jnr into the job, Clinton gets a pass as an accessory to the coc aine racket and the last fiasco was an international embarrasment.

Box A: An unstable megalomaniac, incapable of telling the truth,as well as being party to various criminal acts.
Box B: A billionare hotelier, with no political experience to speak of.

I fear for America...I really do! And with that must come sone serious concern for the rest of the world. For when it does eventually unbutton and it will. It will get really messy, really quickly. An element who actually see that as an opportunity of some sort, are going to get a wake up call of some magnitude.

So.....somehow or other America has to wake up to itself.




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