Manafort Charged by FBI

Indictments are brought based the facts as they become evident. That's the way a Special Counsel Investigation works. Mueller has only begun his work, and there are many, many more facts to be revealed, more indictments, and with every one we get closer to restoring the rule-of-law in this country.

The sad thing here is that many of the liars know quite well.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Indictments are brought based the facts as they become evident. That's the way a Special Counsel Investigation works. Mueller has only begun his work, and there are many, many more facts to be revealed, more indictments, and with every one we get closer to restoring the rule-of-law in this country.

The sad thing here is that many of the liars know quite well.

Yes like you.

It has been proven to you that the podesta group broke the law and is being investigated by Mueller.

But you ignore it.

I thought we all had to focus on what Mueller was doing or we are traitors?

And yet you refuse to admit that company a and b in the indictment (podesta group and mercury) worked to spread Russian influence and broke the law.

Why would you do that?

a reply to: Gryphon66

and with every one we get closer to restoring the rule-of-law in this country.

Yes it is too bad that the former administration had no respect for the rule-of-law. I agree with you and like you hope the rule-of law is restored in my country.

Political parties do not matter. Our opinions of prior administrations do not matter. The only things that matter are a return to truth and the rule-of-law. I will keep repeating this.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Political parties do not matter. Our opinions of prior administrations do not matter. The only things that matter are a return to truth and the rule-of-law. I will keep repeating this.

Perhaps to you they do not.
When did truth and rule-of-law leave?
Fast and furious?
Irs teaparty?
Benghazi?

Interesting you are only concerned about the "truth" and the "rule-of-law" now....

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Political parties do not matter. Our opinions of prior administrations do not matter. The only things that matter are a return to truth and the rule-of-law. I will keep repeating this.

Perhaps to you they do not.
When did truth and rule-of-law leave?
Fast and furious?
Irs teaparty?
Benghazi?

Interesting you are only concerned about the "truth" and the "rule-of-law" now....

You forgot about the Dems' refusal to cooperate with the FBI over the server investigation.

All that talk about "rule of law" rings hollow to those of us who watched the Dems completely ignore the rule of law for 8 years.

a reply to: Grambler


Holy crap, really? THINK.

WE ARE NOT CHINA.

In the United States WE DO NOT ALLOW for SECRET INDICTMENTS AND ARRESTS.

WE DO NOT "DISSAPPEAR" PEOPLE.

In a grand Jury Investigation. Witness testimony and Grand Jury Deliberations are kept secret.

INDICTMENTS ARE NOT. Either the Prosecutor or the Subject of the Indictment is free to share that an indictment took place and the details of the charges.

In the case of Papadopoulus both the subject and prosecutor chose not to talk about it, likely due to the fact he is a cooperating witness.

SECONDLY:

WHY did they share the indictments with news outlets prior to arrests?
WHY did they NOT share the subjects of the indictments? "Sealed".

Because they have multiple Trump associates and Russian Operatives under surveillance.

Everyone sh76 themselves this weekend and there was likely communications chatter that is useful to the investigation.

After the indictments were announced and before the formal arrests on Monday, how many of those under surveillance reached out to or were contacted by Trump minions and promised Pardons? Threatened? Otherwise offered carrots or sticks to keep their mouth shut?

Mueller was ENTIRELY LEGAL in making the indictments public. Our system of justice does not prohibit indictments being made public.

Mueller laid out bait and then waited for the chatter and possible asks and offers as team Trump and/or Russian Operatives looked to assure people on Mueller's short list that they should keep their mouth shut.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus



Manafort offering to brief a Russian Billionaire close to Putin on the progress of the campaign is not illegal and there is no reason it would be included in an indictment.

Here. You answered yourself!

No I answered you.

Your claims, assertions, questions and answers seem to lack consistency and logic.

You seem to shout things like "Podesta" and "Hillary" as if the words themselves construct some kind evidence, conspiracy and crime.

I understand your enthusiasm for obfuscation and distraction at a time like this when you have married your self-identity to the orange oaf, but it really would be easier to discuss or debate if there was at least logic or consistency to your conspiratorial claims.

I will ask again, given the indictment, do you think group A and Group B in the indictment should be charged?

Depending on what they knew, sure. If they were aware that Manafort was working for a Foreign Government in any way and teamed up to lobby with him and took payments and failed to register as foreign agents, then absolutely yes, albeit failure to register as a foreign agent doesn't seem to be arrest worthy as Flynn, Manafort and others have proven. Money Laundering is arrest worthy though.

a reply to: soberbacchus

It would have been legal for Mueller to make the indictments public.

It was not legal for someone to do so through leaking.

I provided evidence from Gowdy saying this was illegal, and a source that specifically outlines that you cant dislcose matters of a grand jury.

You have gave no evidence.

But by all means, show me evidence that says it is legal to leak that their will be an indictment in a grand jury.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus



Manafort offering to brief a Russian Billionaire close to Putin on the progress of the campaign is not illegal and there is no reason it would be included in an indictment.

Here. You answered yourself!

No I answered you.

Your claims, assertions, questions and answers seem to lack consistency and logic.

You seem to shout things like "Podesta" and "Hillary" as if the words themselves construct some kind evidence, conspiracy and crime.

I understand your enthusiasm for obfuscation and distraction at a time like this when you have married your self-identity to the orange oaf, but it really would be easier to discuss or debate if there was at least logic or consistency to your conspiratorial claims.

I will ask again, given the indictment, do you think group A and Group B in the indictment should be charged?

Depending on what they knew, sure. If they were aware that Manafort was working for a Foreign Government in any way and teamed up to lobby with him and took payments and failed to register as foreign agents, then absolutely yes, albeit failure to register as a foreign agent doesn't seem to be arrest worthy as Flynn, Manafort and others have proven. Money Laundering is arrest worthy though.

Ok well the indictment proves companies a and B knew they were working for foreign governments.

Now all of the sudden money laundering is more important than Russian influence?

If thats the case, what does manafort or gates money laundering have to do with Trump again?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Indictments are brought based the facts as they become evident. That's the way a Special Counsel Investigation works. Mueller has only begun his work, and there are many, many more facts to be revealed, more indictments, and with every one we get closer to restoring the rule-of-law in this country.

The sad thing here is that many of the liars know quite well.

Yes like you.

It has been proven to you that the podesta group broke the law and is being investigated by Mueller.

But you ignore it.

I thought we all had to focus on what Mueller was doing or we are traitors?

And yet you refuse to admit that company a and b in the indictment (podesta group and mercury) worked to spread Russian influence and broke the law.

A) Your standard for "proven" seems to be entirely dependent on whoever's team you think someone is on.
B) At most, what we know "suggests" that Podesta Group helped Manafort lobby on behalf of the corrupt Ukrainian Dictator? That means they violated FARA and failed to register as a foreign agent. Like Manafort and Flynn and neither were charged for it.
C) MONEY LAUNDERING, LYING TO THE FBI UNDER OATH, TAX EVASION...if the Podesta Group did those things then I suspect they would be indicted.
D) Tony Podesta is John Podesta's brother. John Podesta left the firm 25 years ago. You continue to claim that John Podesta is deeply involved and a stake holder in Podesta Group, despite ZERO evidence. You shouted about a link, that I read, but it did not support your claim.

originally posted by: soberbacchus


A) Your standard for "proven" seems to be entirely dependent on whoever's team you think someone is on.

Not at all.

B) At most, what we know "suggests" that Podesta Group helped Manafort lobby on behalf of the corrupt Ukrainian Dictator? That means they violated FARA and failed to register as a foreign agent. Like Manafort and Flynn and neither were charged for it.

Try to keep up. Managort and Gates were charged with that very thing yesterday.

C) MONEY LAUNDERING, LYING TO THE FBI UNDER OATH, TAX EVASION...if the Podesta Group did those things then I suspect they would be indicted.

All serious crimmes that should be prosecuted.

But I htought we were concerned about Russian influence?

D) Tony Podesta is John Podesta's brother. John Podesta left the firm 25 years ago. You continue to claim that John Podesta is deeply involved and a stake holder in Podesta Group, despite ZERO evidence. You shouted about a link, that I read, but it did not support your claim.

What does this have to do with anything I said about the podesta group and Mercury being guilty?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus



Manafort offering to brief a Russian Billionaire close to Putin on the progress of the campaign is not illegal and there is no reason it would be included in an indictment.

Here. You answered yourself!

No I answered you.

Your claims, assertions, questions and answers seem to lack consistency and logic.

You seem to shout things like "Podesta" and "Hillary" as if the words themselves construct some kind evidence, conspiracy and crime.

I understand your enthusiasm for obfuscation and distraction at a time like this when you have married your self-identity to the orange oaf, but it really would be easier to discuss or debate if there was at least logic or consistency to your conspiratorial claims.

I will ask again, given the indictment, do you think group A and Group B in the indictment should be charged?

Depending on what they knew, sure. If they were aware that Manafort was working for a Foreign Government in any way and teamed up to lobby with him and took payments and failed to register as foreign agents, then absolutely yes, albeit failure to register as a foreign agent doesn't seem to be arrest worthy as Flynn, Manafort and others have proven. Money Laundering is arrest worthy though.

Ok well the indictment proves companies a and B knew they were working for foreign governments.

Now all of the sudden money laundering is more important than Russian influence?

You didn't ask what was "important"???????

You asked "do you think group A and Group B in the indictment should be charged?"

I ANSWERED..

Flynn and Manafort and I believe others failed to register as Foreign Agents.
This was public back in Feb. and March.

It did not warrant charges.

Manafort was charged with Money Laundering, Tax Evasion and Lying to the FBI.

THAT is how the law has worked for Trump Associates. That is how the law works for Podesta Group or anyone else.

You seem to have a dictators view of how Justice should work.

And frankly a dishonest manner of discussion, altering what your question was and stuffing words in peoples mouths because you failed in your reasoning.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Yes my interpretation for how the law should work is that anyone guilty should be charged.

Manafort and Gates were charged for not registering.

So why shouldnt Mercury, Flynn, the Podesta group, or anyone else who also broke that law?

In addition, I thought the primary purpose of this investigation was weeding out illegal russian influence.

Easily the most serious charges of that are the fact that in 2012 thru 2014 Russians had people directly lobbying for russian interests while not being open about it.

Those groups were Manfort, Gates, the podesta group, and Mercury.

For some reason, some people want to ignore this.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus


A) Your standard for "proven" seems to be entirely dependent on whoever's team you think someone is on.

Not at all.

B) At most, what we know "suggests" that Podesta Group helped Manafort lobby on behalf of the corrupt Ukrainian Dictator? That means they violated FARA and failed to register as a foreign agent. Like Manafort and Flynn and neither were charged for it.

Try to keep up. Managort and Gates were charged with that very thing yesterday.

Those charges did not warrant arrest, as I stated.

Flynn is walking free.

Michael Flynn belatedly registers as foreign agent
www.nydailynews.com...

Manafort (retroactively) registers as foreign agent
www.politico.com...

The difference is one was involved in Money Laundering and Tax Evasion over a period of 10+ years.

It was listed on Manaforts indictment as gravy.

You know this right? Of course you do. That is why it is silly to converse with not honest folks.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus


A) Your standard for "proven" seems to be entirely dependent on whoever's team you think someone is on.

Not at all.

B) At most, what we know "suggests" that Podesta Group helped Manafort lobby on behalf of the corrupt Ukrainian Dictator? That means they violated FARA and failed to register as a foreign agent. Like Manafort and Flynn and neither were charged for it.

Try to keep up. Managort and Gates were charged with that very thing yesterday.

Those charges did not warrant arrest, as I stated.

Flynn is walking free.

Michael Flynn belatedly registers as foreign agent
www.nydailynews.com...

Manafort (retroactively) registers as foreign agent
www.politico.com...

The difference is one was involved in Money Laundering and Tax Evasion over a period of 10+ years.

It was listed on Manaforts indictment as gravy.

You know this right? Of course you do. That is why it is silly to converse with not honest folks.

I am concerned with Russian interference into our country. I want to see that charged.

You are concerned with money laundering.

Fair enough.

Whats that have to do with Trump again?

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Yes my interpretation for how the law should work is that anyone guilty should be charged.

Manafort and Gates were charged for not registering.

So why shouldnt Mercury, Flynn, the Podesta group, or anyone else who also broke that law?

In addition, I thought the primary purpose of this investigation was weeding out illegal russian influence.

Easily the most serious charges of that are the fact that in 2012 thru 2014 Russians had people directly lobbying for russian interests while not being open about it.

Those groups were Manfort, Gates, the podesta group, and Mercury.

For some reason, some people want to ignore this.

Nobody is ignoring it? The fact that a Lobbyist lobbied for a crappy government or failed to register as a foreign agent is much less relevant than The Presidents Campaign Manager being charged and arrested for Money Laundering, Tax Evasion and Lying to the FBI.

Trump's Campaign Manager and National Security Director working for a foreign government and lying about it?

VS.

A lobbyist working for a foreign government and not revealing it or registering as a foreign agent?

Your brain can't cognate the difference?

a reply to: soberbacchus

What does any of this have to do with Russian influence into the 2016 election cycle?

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Yes my interpretation for how the law should work is that anyone guilty should be charged.

Manafort and Gates were charged for not registering.

So why shouldnt Mercury, Flynn, the Podesta group, or anyone else who also broke that law?

In addition, I thought the primary purpose of this investigation was weeding out illegal russian influence.

Easily the most serious charges of that are the fact that in 2012 thru 2014 Russians had people directly lobbying for russian interests while not being open about it.

Those groups were Manfort, Gates, the podesta group, and Mercury.

For some reason, some people want to ignore this.

Nobody is ignoring it? The fact that a Lobbyist lobbied for a crappy government or failed to register as a foreign agent is much less relevant than The Presidents Campaign Manager being charged and arrested for Money Laundering, Tax Evasion and Lying to the FBI.

Trump's Campaign Manager and National Security Director working for a foreign government and lying about it?

VS.

A lobbyist working for a foreign government and not revealing it or registering as a foreign agent?

Your brain can't cognate the difference?

What I see is that now the democrats are connected to Russian influence, the narrative against Trump has changed from he stole the election with russians all the way to he hired someone who committed tax fraud.

a reply to: soberbacchus

A lobbyist working for a foreign government and not revealing it or registering as a foreign agent? 

In Manaforts case it has been referred to as treasonous.
In the case of The Podesta Group.... nothingburger.

That seems to be what I am hearing.