Manafort Charged by FBI

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Grambler
Lets look at this on the whole shall we.

This indcitment shows that most of the allegations into Mueller for operating for the russians was from 2012 to 2015. Most of the charges after that are financial or covering up for them.

This means that currently we can say Trump had terrible judgement in picking manafort. But there is nor proof from this indictment of any wrongdoing on his part with russia.

However, we do know that there was wrong doing with russia from Company A and B, the companies that Manafort and Gates used to peddle russian influence to washington. We are almost certain that these groups are the Podesta group and Mercury.

This means that there is far more proof and connection to the dems for falling under russian influence than Trump.

Now we see the leader of the podesta group step down because of the Mueller investigation.

It is starting to look really bad for him and his connections.

The only thing I have to disagree with here is Trump's judgement. Manafort hid his illegal activities from the government for years. There's no reason to believe Trump knew about them. How does that display bad judgement? Lots of people have criminals working for/with them and never know it until they're caught.

He hired someone that had been accused of illegal dealings before. He should have vetted him better.

Lots of people are accused of stuff. Trump himself has been accused of lots of things. If he was a career politician, yeah he probably would've erred on the side of caution. He doesn't think like a politican.

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)
Please stick to the topic....do not go after other posters
Go After the Ball, Not the Player!

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: face23785

No "WE" don't know any such thing. Lol.
Where's the indictment of Clinton and John podesta?
Oh yeah...

We sure do know the Podesta Group has worked with Clinton before. That's what that link that you ignored said.

Where did I say there was an indictment of Clinton or Podesta coming from this?

originally posted by: soberbacchus

Trump's Campaign Manager and Deputy Campaign Manager and Foreign Policy Advisor have all been indicted.
One has pled guilty and two are appearing in court today.

I can't imagine a scenario where this doesn't look bad for Trump in the end.

At this point, i'd do anything just to shut everyone up and get back to addressing the failed policies of prior admins.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Because when manafort was actually working with Russia to inflence government decisons it was in 2012.

This was before Trumps campaign.

Sure, people are going down for financial crimes and lying too, but when it comes to the big story (*rmeember it was russian collusion) we have proof only that it was occurring before trumps campaign from this indictment.

And who was connected to that; the Podesta group.

Now perhaps later there will be an accusation that Manafort was working with russians to influence policy while he was Trumps manager.

But we dont see that now.

a reply to: Grambler

Uh huh... Yup. Rolls eyes. You sure can fight reality with all you've got. I'll give you that.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: soberbacchus

Trump's Campaign Manager and Deputy Campaign Manager and Foreign Policy Advisor have all been indicted.
One has pled guilty and two are appearing in court today.

I can't imagine a scenario where this doesn't look bad for Trump in the end.

At this point, i'd do anything just to shut everyone up and get back to addressing the failed policies of prior admins.

You know as anti-Trump as I am I get what you are saying about this.

I think as soon as this investigation was opened up Trump was only ever going to come out with egg on is face at the end of it.

Now its still ongoing so who knows whats going to happen in the course of the next few months.

But.

This needs to be sorted out fast because its casting a very dark cloud over the presidency and its taking the national focus away from other perhaps more pressing issues. Personally I think that what is going on with Korea right now is much bigger potentially depending on the outcome of this.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Grambler
Lets look at this on the whole shall we.

This indcitment shows that most of the allegations into Mueller for operating for the russians was from 2012 to 2015. Most of the charges after that are financial or covering up for them.

This means that currently we can say Trump had terrible judgement in picking manafort. But there is nor proof from this indictment of any wrongdoing on his part with russia.

However, we do know that there was wrong doing with russia from Company A and B, the companies that Manafort and Gates used to peddle russian influence to washington. We are almost certain that these groups are the Podesta group and Mercury.

This means that there is far more proof and connection to the dems for falling under russian influence than Trump.

Now we see the leader of the podesta group step down because of the Mueller investigation.

It is starting to look really bad for him and his connections.

The only thing I have to disagree with here is Trump's judgement. Manafort hid his illegal activities from the government for years. There's no reason to believe Trump knew about them. How does that display bad judgement? Lots of people have criminals working for/with them and never know it until they're caught.

He hired someone that had been accused of illegal dealings before. He should have vetted him better.

That's exactly why he hired him. That's exactly why he kept his partner on (Also Indicted) after he was forced to ask Manafort to resign.

I guess it is just coincidence? Flynn, Page, Manafort, JD Gordon, Papadopoulus, Sessions, Gates? I know I missed some.

His Foreign Policy Advisors? His Director National Security? His AG?
The People that ran his campaign, headed the Republican National Convention, constructed his foreign policy?

Just some bad luck choosing people with illicit connections to Russia...over and over.

None of which he wanted to resign or recuse.

a reply to: RickinVa

You thought Clinton was going to be indicted too.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: soberbacchus

Trump's Campaign Manager and Deputy Campaign Manager and Foreign Policy Advisor have all been indicted.
One has pled guilty and two are appearing in court today.

I can't imagine a scenario where this doesn't look bad for Trump in the end.

At this point, i'd do anything just to shut everyone up and get back to addressing the failed policies of prior admins.

You know as anti-Trump as I am I get what you are saying about this.

I think as soon as this investigation was opened up Trump was only ever going to come out with egg on is face at the end of it.

Now its still ongoing so who knows whats going to happen in the course of the next few months.

But.

This needs to be sorted out fast because its casting a very dark cloud over the presidency and its taking the national focus away from other perhaps more pressing issues. Personally I think that what is going on with Korea right now is much bigger potentially depending on the outcome of this.

It's really only dominating the national focus in certain circles. The average Joe wrote off this Russian conspiracy nonsense months ago. They wanna know what's going on with their taxes. If they deliver on that, it'll be a big win. What the news chooses to be the top story is rarely in line with what the average American's number 1 focus is.

a reply to: face23785

Yeah discussing lessening sanctions place by the then president as a punishment isn't exactly the same as talking policy and actually borders on treason.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Because when manafort was actually working with Russia to inflence government decisons it was in 2012.

This was before Trumps campaign.

What makes you think that?


Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign
nypost.com...

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Grambler
Lets look at this on the whole shall we.

This indcitment shows that most of the allegations into Mueller for operating for the russians was from 2012 to 2015. Most of the charges after that are financial or covering up for them.

This means that currently we can say Trump had terrible judgement in picking manafort. But there is nor proof from this indictment of any wrongdoing on his part with russia.

However, we do know that there was wrong doing with russia from Company A and B, the companies that Manafort and Gates used to peddle russian influence to washington. We are almost certain that these groups are the Podesta group and Mercury.

This means that there is far more proof and connection to the dems for falling under russian influence than Trump.

Now we see the leader of the podesta group step down because of the Mueller investigation.

It is starting to look really bad for him and his connections.

The only thing I have to disagree with here is Trump's judgement. Manafort hid his illegal activities from the government for years. There's no reason to believe Trump knew about them. How does that display bad judgement? Lots of people have criminals working for/with them and never know it until they're caught.

He hired someone that had been accused of illegal dealings before. He should have vetted him better.

His Foreign Policy Advisors? His Director National Security? His AG?
The People that ran his campaign, headed the Republican National Convention, constructed his foreign policy?

Just some bad luck choosing people with illicit connections to Russia...over and over.

None of which he wanted to resign or recuse.

Funny that, huh? But I'm sure Trump is completely innocent and had no idea.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: face23785

Yeah discussing lessening sanctions place by the then president as a punishment isn't exactly the same as talking policy and actually borders on treason.

You know it's funny, but sometimes when we discuss sanctions levied by the US, it's a bad thing, but at other times, they are sacrosanct.

These sanctions are obviously good in your eyes, but when we discuss the crumbling and collapse of Venezuela, it's all the fault of US sanctions. Or when we discuss the hostility that Iran has for the US, it's all because of US sanctions. Clearly then, sanctions are bad.

So we need to decide when sanctions are good and bad and just what the criteria are.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: face23785

Yeah discussing lessening sanctions place by the then president as a punishment isn't exactly the same as talking policy and actually borders on treason.

Easing sanctions borders on treason?

Are you aware of how many times sanctions have been lifted by past administrations? Or am I just deflecting again, since apparently history isn't relevant when you're trying to support a baseless myth like you are.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Some of those just talked to the Russian ambassador.

Recall how Sessions merely spoke with the Russian ambassador in his job as a senator. Claire McCaskill assured us up one side and down the other that senators *never* did that until her own tweet stream uncovered that she lied about that. She also met with the Russian ambassador in the course of her job. There are pictures of the Russian ambassador sitting with the entire Democrat side of the Senate at the state of the union.

Those pesky Russians get around in the diplomatic dealings. Perhaps, if we didn't want anyone ever to talk to them at all, we should bar them all from the country entirely. I'm sure there would be absolutely no danger whatsoever in doing that to a nuclear power we're on a semi-hostile footing with.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: soberbacchus

Trump's Campaign Manager and Deputy Campaign Manager and Foreign Policy Advisor have all been indicted.
One has pled guilty and two are appearing in court today.

At this point, i'd do anything just to shut everyone up and get back to addressing the failed policies of prior admins.

Agree or disagree with the last administration, no one can change the past.

Any failed policies this country is suffering from are Trump Policies.

Trump does not appear capable of ceasing his twitter tantrums and focusing on real issues.

His incompetence and apparent narcissistic personality disorder is a valid concern, but not a legal one yet.

a reply to: ketsuko

No that's distraction because that's not what occurred. They couldn't have been discussing policy because trump is denying any meetings even took place.
But I'm sure discussing lessening sanctions that were just placed by then president Obama was not exactly legal. I could be wrong but I think there's a law against that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: soberbacchus

Some of those just talked to the Russian ambassador.

A known recruiter for the FSB.
And they lied about it to FBI and Congress, in testimony and security clearances.