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The laws of physics dont mind that man behind the curtain
page: 1share:
What is more interesting to me than mathematical statements accurately representing nature's behaviors like we have with the standard model of
physics, is the following idea. We are living in pools of swirling waves of energy. We create devices out of different types of mass, and use
energy and mass to measure reality which is composed of mass and energy. Now despite the problem of measurement device creating a filter of
perception with self-validating results, there's something else that is amazing to me. Even with all these swirling pools of energy interacting, the
energy swirls around in patterns that repeat. Take the measurement of Universal constants. It's really quite amazing they do not change from
measurement to measurement. So what amazes me is just what exactly exists in the Universe guiding the laws of physics to repeat in exactly the same
way every time. It's like there are invisible walls making sure the swirls of energy move in exactly the same patterns every time.
Why do electrons move at all and where does the energy come from? Why does electric charge even exist. Just because we can measure something doesn't mean we understand what it is or what it means. What gives the electron cloud shape. What controls the orbital zone distance from the nucleus. I know my physicist friends will give the standard answer of it is that way because that is how we measured it to be. I think there is something going on here that is beyond normal understanding of the standard model. I can't exactly put my finger on it. But there's just something really peculiar in the way waves of energy follow the same patterns as if there existed invisible walls guiding their flows.
Why do electrons move at all and where does the energy come from? Why does electric charge even exist. Just because we can measure something doesn't mean we understand what it is or what it means. What gives the electron cloud shape. What controls the orbital zone distance from the nucleus. I know my physicist friends will give the standard answer of it is that way because that is how we measured it to be. I think there is something going on here that is beyond normal understanding of the standard model. I can't exactly put my finger on it. But there's just something really peculiar in the way waves of energy follow the same patterns as if there existed invisible walls guiding their flows.
edit on 30-10-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: dfnj2015
Some excellent points dfnj - And in a moment I'll give you my unpopular view on the subject.
But first a quote from my favorite Nobel Prize [Quantum Theory] winning physcist of the 20th Century - Max Planck.
“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck
Notice you have a Nobel Prize winning physcist making a statement
that make him sound like a religious thiest - which he was not.
Now my own always unpopulr view - which seems to antagonize both Atheists and Theists.
I believe that the concept, ofen used by theists to confirm a god - Intelligent Design - is true
BUT does not prove a creator.
Another words Science is based upon patterns that repeat and can be measured - Intelligent Design is built in
to all that exists. - And this only proves science is built into a univrese which has intelligent order
- This does not prove the existence of a creator but does 'almost prove' that we are part of an Intelligent Matrix
“When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.”
― Max Planck
Some excellent points dfnj - And in a moment I'll give you my unpopular view on the subject.
But first a quote from my favorite Nobel Prize [Quantum Theory] winning physcist of the 20th Century - Max Planck.
“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck
Notice you have a Nobel Prize winning physcist making a statement
that make him sound like a religious thiest - which he was not.
Now my own always unpopulr view - which seems to antagonize both Atheists and Theists.
I believe that the concept, ofen used by theists to confirm a god - Intelligent Design - is true
BUT does not prove a creator.
Another words Science is based upon patterns that repeat and can be measured - Intelligent Design is built in
to all that exists. - And this only proves science is built into a univrese which has intelligent order
- This does not prove the existence of a creator but does 'almost prove' that we are part of an Intelligent Matrix
“When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.”
― Max Planck
edit on 30-10-2017 by AlienView because: (no reason given)
a reply to: dfnj2015
Why do electrons move?
They are a wavefunction.
Why does an electric charge exist?
We assignedthe term positive and negative to explain forces and an imbalance in forces create charges.
What gives the electron cloud shape?
Probability of the electron being in tht area.The electron is therefore described in terms of its probability distribution or probability density. This probability distribution does not have definite cutoff points meaning its edges are fuzzy or cloud like.
Im not sure what you meant by invisible walls but guessing did you mean what holds an electron in orbit?
If thats what your asking" The Strong nuclear" this keeps protons and neutrons stuck together inside an atom.The electrons are allowed to exist at certain very precise energies, but their position is spread out, described by this "wave of probability." More energy can increase the number of probabilities and increase the distance from the nucleus. To much energy and our electron goes flying off we call that electricity.
Why do electrons move?
They are a wavefunction.
Why does an electric charge exist?
We assignedthe term positive and negative to explain forces and an imbalance in forces create charges.
What gives the electron cloud shape?
Probability of the electron being in tht area.The electron is therefore described in terms of its probability distribution or probability density. This probability distribution does not have definite cutoff points meaning its edges are fuzzy or cloud like.
Im not sure what you meant by invisible walls but guessing did you mean what holds an electron in orbit?
If thats what your asking" The Strong nuclear" this keeps protons and neutrons stuck together inside an atom.The electrons are allowed to exist at certain very precise energies, but their position is spread out, described by this "wave of probability." More energy can increase the number of probabilities and increase the distance from the nucleus. To much energy and our electron goes flying off we call that electricity.
Is Belief in God Reasonable? Awake!—2010
Job 38:
2 “Who is this who is obscuring my counsel
And speaking without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself, please, like a man;
I will question you, and you inform me.
4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
...
33 Do you know the laws governing the heavens,
Or can you impose their* authority on the earth? [Or possibly, “His.”]
"...they are perceived by the things made":
Molecular Machinery of Life
Psalm 139:
13 For you produced my kidneys;
You kept me screened off in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because in an awe-inspiring way I am wonderfully made.
Your works are wonderful,
I know* this very well. [Or “My soul knows.”]
15 My bones were not hidden from you
When I was made in secret,
When I was woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes even saw me as an embryo;
All its parts were written in your book
Regarding the days when they were formed,
Before any of them existed.
Checkout this interview with a biochemist about the designs observed in nature and in particular regarding cyanobacteria:
HAVE you wondered why everything from atomic particles to vast galaxies is governed by precise mathematical laws? Have you reflected on life itself—its variety, its complexity, and its amazing design? Many attribute the universe and the life in it to a great cosmic accident and evolution. Others give credit to an intelligent Creator. Which viewpoint do you feel is more reasonable?
Of course, both viewpoints involve faith. Belief in God rests on faith. As the Bible says, “no man has seen God at any time.” (John 1:18) Likewise, no human saw the forming of the universe or the commencement of life.
...
Job 38:
2 “Who is this who is obscuring my counsel
And speaking without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself, please, like a man;
I will question you, and you inform me.
4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
...
33 Do you know the laws governing the heavens,
Or can you impose their* authority on the earth? [Or possibly, “His.”]
Blind Chance or Purposeful Design?
Years ago, British mathematician, physicist, and astronomer Sir James Jeans wrote that in the light of advancing scientific knowledge, “the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine.” He also stated that “the universe appears to have been designed by a pure mathematician” and that it provides “evidence of a designing or controlling power that has something in common with our own individual minds.”
Other scientists have arrived at a similar conclusion since Jeans penned those words. “The overall organization of the universe has suggested to many a modern astronomer an element of design,” wrote physicist Paul Davies. One of the most famous physicists and mathematicians of all time, Albert Einstein, wrote: “The fact that [the natural world] is comprehensible is a miracle.” In the eyes of many, that miracle includes life itself, from its fundamental building blocks to the amazing human brain.
DNA and the Human Brain
...
Belief Based on Evidence
...
Our Creator has given us the “intellectual capacity” to investigate the world around us and to find satisfying answers to our questions. (1 John 5:20) In this regard, physicist and Nobel laureate William D. Phillips wrote: “When I examine the orderliness, understandability, and beauty of the universe, I am led to the conclusion that a higher intelligence designed what I see. My scientific appreciation of the coherence, and the delightful simplicity of physics strengthens my belief in God.”
Some two thousand years ago, a discerning observer of the natural world wrote: “[God’s] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship.” (Romans 1:20) The writer—the Christian apostle Paul—was an intelligent man and highly educated in the Mosaic Law. His reason-based faith made God a reality to him, while his acute sense of justice moved him to give due credit to God for his creative works.
...
"...they are perceived by the things made":
Molecular Machinery of Life
Psalm 139:
13 For you produced my kidneys;
You kept me screened off in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because in an awe-inspiring way I am wonderfully made.
Your works are wonderful,
I know* this very well. [Or “My soul knows.”]
15 My bones were not hidden from you
When I was made in secret,
When I was woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes even saw me as an embryo;
All its parts were written in your book
Regarding the days when they were formed,
Before any of them existed.
Checkout this interview with a biochemist about the designs observed in nature and in particular regarding cyanobacteria:
edit on 30-10-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)
If the universe is 14 billion years old (and we have conclusive info about that, seriously difficult to debunk, so if you feel the need to, open up a
thread and prepare to get roasted), and there would be only CHAOS, live couldn't have find a way.
Only if the stars, galaxies, atoms and so on work in steady ways there was a chance to develop live.
Why? Chaos may produce life, but the chance to destroy it in the next moment are much much higher.
Only if the stars, galaxies, atoms and so on work in steady ways there was a chance to develop live.
Why? Chaos may produce life, but the chance to destroy it in the next moment are much much higher.
edit on 30 10 2017 by ManFromEurope because:
(no reason given)
a reply to: whereislogic
Flood the OP with your diatribe as usual - care to stay on topic? Take your cult programming to the streets
Flood the OP with your diatribe as usual - care to stay on topic? Take your cult programming to the streets
originally posted by: dfnj2015
What is more interesting to me than mathematical statements accurately representing nature's behaviors like we have with the standard model of physics, is the following idea. We are living in pools of swirling waves of energy. We create devices out of different types of mass, and use energy and mass to measure reality which is composed of mass and energy. Now despite the problem of measurement device creating a filter of perception with self-validating results, there's something else that is amazing to me. Even with all these swirling pools of energy interacting, the energy swirls around in patterns that repeat. Take the measurement of Universal constants. It's really quite amazing they do not change from measurement to measurement. So what amazes me is just what exactly exists in the Universe guiding the laws of physics to repeat in exactly the same way every time. It's like there are invisible walls making sure the swirls of energy move in exactly the same patterns every time.
Why do electrons move at all and where does the energy come from? Why does electric charge even exist. Just because we can measure something doesn't mean we understand what it is or what it means. What gives the electron cloud shape. What controls the orbital zone distance from the nucleus. I know my physicist friends will give the standard answer of it is that way because that is how we measured it to be. I think there is something going on here that is beyond normal understanding of the standard model. I can't exactly put my finger on it. But there's just something really peculiar in the way waves of energy follow the same patterns as if there existed invisible walls guiding their flows.
I would throw in with you on this.We can say for sure that we know we don't know it all.
When I studied, we had a brand new Sr level elective that was an experimental course titled "Inorganic Chemistry". Created for the "Environmental Chemistry" degree to use and not required for me to graduate with that emphasis but it is now. This was basically the rest of the perodic chart that was largely ignored by the "Organic" chemists (a certain money making part of Chemistry) who have so much to do with making medicines, plastics and various fuels and much more.
That class was awesome. It delved more into Physic's than any Chem class I had but the required Physical Chemistry that one takes the last year of the Degree. The Inorganic Chem course was so enlightening for myself and the other students they moved it up to Freshman level Chem from Sr level. The dynamics of the atoms in matrices was so interesting. It emphasized the electron cloud tendencies which highlight the odd interactions based on atom size and charges.
a reply to: dragonridr
Your answers are the standard ones. I was trying to get at something different. This is more to this than just having a mathematically model representing nature's behavior. I was trying to get at how is that nature repeats its behavior at all. To use a machine metaphor, the parts of the machine form a pattern of behavior. What are the parts of the machine making of the Universe where energy flowing through the system flows with certain patterns. What are the parts?
I'm probably just not speaking well enough to get you to see what I'm hinting at. Where charge comes from is not the same thing as measuring its existence. Even with measure the charge of an electron, the electron cloud is still moving around in patterns. The idea of what we measure IS also the explanation of the behavior is an empty explanation for me.
Your answers are the standard ones. I was trying to get at something different. This is more to this than just having a mathematically model representing nature's behavior. I was trying to get at how is that nature repeats its behavior at all. To use a machine metaphor, the parts of the machine form a pattern of behavior. What are the parts of the machine making of the Universe where energy flowing through the system flows with certain patterns. What are the parts?
I'm probably just not speaking well enough to get you to see what I'm hinting at. Where charge comes from is not the same thing as measuring its existence. Even with measure the charge of an electron, the electron cloud is still moving around in patterns. The idea of what we measure IS also the explanation of the behavior is an empty explanation for me.
originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: dragonridr
Your answers are the standard ones. I was trying to get at something different. This is more to this than just having a mathematically model representing nature's behavior. I was trying to get at how is that nature repeats its behavior at all. To use a machine metaphor, the parts of the machine form a pattern of behavior. What are the parts of the machine making of the Universe where energy flowing through the system flows with certain patterns. What are the parts?
I'm probably just not speaking well enough to get you to see what I'm hinting at. Where charge comes from is not the same thing as measuring its existence. Even with measure the charge of an electron, the electron cloud is still moving around in patterns. The idea of what we measure IS also the explanation of the behavior is an empty explanation for me.
You are ready for Quantum Mechanics and the String theory. Important logic such as Schrodinger's cat where the cat is alive or dead until you open the box. Also, those cool experiments with one gold atom and a slit in the plate it passes through. I think we need to all be looking at that work closely. The part that grabs my imagination is the Quantum Entanglement affect of a matched pair from a distance that I think is a reasonable assumption to conclude from the data we are witnessing.
edit on 30-10-2017 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)
a reply to: AlienView
I was not trying to imply in anyway there was a God or God is needed to explain nature.
btw, I loved the Max Plank quotes.
I'm not not expressing myself eloquently enough to get what I'm hinting at. The standard model of physics is one of man's greatest achievements. Physicists are insanely smart people and I have nothing but the utmost respect for these efforts.
The thing is, I've always been bothered by the way people claim a mathematical representation of nature's behave explains anything about the Universe. If the laws of physics are like software, there's an underlying computer executing the program. But more importantly, why don't we see the pieces that make up the computer hardware.
Energy exists and flows in certain patterns. Somehow there are invisible pipelines making the energy flow in the same repeatable patterns. It's just weird to think nothingness of existence when occupied with energy has predefined patterns to the flow.
I was not trying to imply in anyway there was a God or God is needed to explain nature.
btw, I loved the Max Plank quotes.
I'm not not expressing myself eloquently enough to get what I'm hinting at. The standard model of physics is one of man's greatest achievements. Physicists are insanely smart people and I have nothing but the utmost respect for these efforts.
The thing is, I've always been bothered by the way people claim a mathematical representation of nature's behave explains anything about the Universe. If the laws of physics are like software, there's an underlying computer executing the program. But more importantly, why don't we see the pieces that make up the computer hardware.
Energy exists and flows in certain patterns. Somehow there are invisible pipelines making the energy flow in the same repeatable patterns. It's just weird to think nothingness of existence when occupied with energy has predefined patterns to the flow.
edit on 30-10-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: AlienView
Energy exists and flows in certain patterns. Somehow there are invisible pipelines making the energy flow in the same repeatable patterns. It's just weird to think nothingness of existence when occupied with energy has predefined patterns to the flow.
That flow is dictated by objects with great mass in the physical universe. I think you are implying some energy that created the black holes and gravity wave type of energy that creates the paths to follow because of a magnetic or gravitational affect. All in an unseen force field. Perhaps the "Theory of Everything" will be able to tell us answers to such questions in the future?
Again from my favorite 20th Century Nobel Prize winning physicist:
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
― Max Planck, Where is Science Going?
“We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.”
― Max Planck, The Universe in the Light of Modern Physics
“The goal is nothing other than the coherence and completeness of the system not only in respect of all details, but also in respect of all physicists of all places, all times, all peoples, and all cultures.”
― Max Planck, The Dilemmas of an Upright Man: Max Planck and the Fortunes of German Science
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
― Max Planck, Where is Science Going?
“We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.”
― Max Planck, The Universe in the Light of Modern Physics
“The goal is nothing other than the coherence and completeness of the system not only in respect of all details, but also in respect of all physicists of all places, all times, all peoples, and all cultures.”
― Max Planck, The Dilemmas of an Upright Man: Max Planck and the Fortunes of German Science
edit on 31-10-2017 by AlienView because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: dragonridr
Your answers are the standard ones. I was trying to get at something different. This is more to this than just having a mathematically model representing nature's behavior. I was trying to get at how is that nature repeats its behavior at all. To use a machine metaphor, the parts of the machine form a pattern of behavior. What are the parts of the machine making of the Universe where energy flowing through the system flows with certain patterns. What are the parts?
I'm probably just not speaking well enough to get you to see what I'm hinting at. Where charge comes from is not the same thing as measuring its existence. Even with measure the charge of an electron, the electron cloud is still moving around in patterns. The idea of what we measure IS also the explanation of the behavior is an empty explanation for me.
Your wanting philosophical answers to a quesion I get that problem is the universe doesnt. The universe doesn't ask why humans were created they just were. The universe doesn't ask why energy works the way it does it just does. There is no why only how something occurs. In say physics you answer the when the how but there is no why it happened it just did because it could happen.
Problem with nature or the universe given enough time anything and everything possible will happen. As human nature tells us we want everything to happen for a reason just because it can well is highly unsatisfying to say the least. However the universe isn't here to satisfy human nature. So if you truly want to understand the universe stop looking for the why and learn about the how or your stuck wondering about questions where no answer will ever exist.
Here is a research website where rigorous, mathematical evidence can be studied (warning: it will take you six months at least to assimilate all the
evidence) for the existence of a universal pattern, prescribed by the ancient Hebrew Godnames, that is found in the sacred geometries of religions and
which embodies the group mathematics of SO(32) and E8xE8, the two possible symmetry groups found by physicists Gary Schwarz and Michael Green in 1984
to describe superstring forces that are free of quantum anomalies:
smphillips.mysite.com...
Theres is no plausible alternative to divine design for why this pattern is so ubiquitous in the Etz Chayim (Tree of Life), Sri Yantra, five Platonic solids, disdyakis triacontahedron, etc. Anyone who persists in avoiding it as an explanation prefers to believe in miracles of coincidence than to admit that his godless universe might not be godless after all. Instead of armchair philosophizing to preserve your cosy world-view, start examining REAL evidence for transcendental design. You will find it nowhere else.
smphillips.mysite.com...
Theres is no plausible alternative to divine design for why this pattern is so ubiquitous in the Etz Chayim (Tree of Life), Sri Yantra, five Platonic solids, disdyakis triacontahedron, etc. Anyone who persists in avoiding it as an explanation prefers to believe in miracles of coincidence than to admit that his godless universe might not be godless after all. Instead of armchair philosophizing to preserve your cosy world-view, start examining REAL evidence for transcendental design. You will find it nowhere else.
I think you're on the beginning of a very intriguing scientific study.
Start at the base building blocks. Atoms and electrons and neutrons. They are all the same. They all follow the same predictable rules. Never mind how and why they are all the same without variation for now. Continue up the building blocks. Where does variation come into play? If the base building blocks all have to obey the same hidden rules at what point does differentiation occur? Does the governing force that keeps all atoms identical suddenly stop at a certain point up the chain?
Start at the base building blocks. Atoms and electrons and neutrons. They are all the same. They all follow the same predictable rules. Never mind how and why they are all the same without variation for now. Continue up the building blocks. Where does variation come into play? If the base building blocks all have to obey the same hidden rules at what point does differentiation occur? Does the governing force that keeps all atoms identical suddenly stop at a certain point up the chain?
originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: sedna9
And??
i thought its funny to show how hollywood is SHOWING THIS MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN THING ...
""Darker, harder, and even deeper. Frustration. Lack of communication and the feeling that there is no solution at hand.
Or picture this. A huge, black sun that covers your entire field of vision. People out of focus, dressed in black, standing by the shore. Looking out towards nothing. Because there is nothing to see."
dagrosenqvist.bandcamp.com... 11
can be done be psychedelics . if you have seen the end of the 4th dimension/ astral barrier and all the occultur/knowledge thats coming ut of the "innearth" or behind the curtain.
edit on 31-10-2017 by sedna9 because: (no reason given)
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