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An opioid named Squirrel

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posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

I really wouldn't expect you to have had withdrawals from a short term use at what were probably low doses.

Regardless, my point was that physical dependency isn't something that is necessarily controlled or mitigated by whether you like it or not. That delves more into addiction potential than dependency.

The briefest way to differentiate between the two is that addiction will tend to be behavioral, or psychological, while dependency is physiological.

It wouldn't matter how much you hated taking certain medications, take them long enough at even prescribed doses and you will become dependent. Obviously, this isn't exclusive to pain medication either. Some medications, like Effexor (anti-depressant), can have even worse withdrawals than any pain med.

Like I said, I find it all quite interesting, but I think the distinction between dependency and addiction is absolutely critical to the conversation and is frequently misunderstood.

Dependence can be a factor in driving addiction, but just because someone is dependent does not qualify them for the behavioral aspects of addiction. Likewise, just because someone is addicted to something doesn't necessarily mean there is a physiological dependence involved. At least not beyond typical brain activity.

The issue, in my opinion, is with addiction. Even if we had pain medications with no dependence factor, the problems with addiction may not be addressed at all.

Patients can even become addicted to something like migraine medication (non-opioid) which can then transform into the vicious cycle of rebound headaches. There is never any euphoria, or "positive" sensations beyond lessening migraine pain, yet the same addictive behavior can be seen. At the point of rebound headaches, the medication actually has no positive effects whatsoever, subjective or otherwise.

Addressing the addiction side of things has become a very, very big business with some of the most common solutions involving opioid replacement. Frequently, these medications can create worse dependency even if its accompanied by therapy for the addiction. I don't feel this is an actual solution, even if it can be labeled as a success in context.

TL;DR: Everyone, absolutely everyone, is susceptible to dependence to certain medications. However, not everyone has the same factors for addiction and its the addiction behavior (everything from theft to OD) which drives the "crises." The former is rather straightforward to address, giving an easily marketable "solution," but it wont actually tackle the latter. Which, beyond being the source of the issue, is much more difficult to fix and more expansive than just pain medication.
edit on 26-10-2017 by Serdgiam because: Eta: sorry if that was all preaching to the choir Blaine. I believe its an important topic, but very few aspects are actually targeting the problem and patients like me have to pay the price.




posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


I think you are on to something with this being a squirrel thing. Squirrels do like to bury things.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Wouldn't it be super-clever if illegal opioids suddenly weren't illegal but could be bought, under prescription, from a clean unadulterated source in controlled and standardized doses and at a price commensurate with the actual production and distribution of the chemicals with a very small profit margin (so the products pay for themselves, but not much else).

Then, the illegal suppliers would find themselves out-competed by legitimate and government sanctioned suppliers. Without arrests or further loss of life, illegal drugs would simply go out of business.

And since the addicts are now under medical care, the possibility of management of the condition, hopefully towards breaking the addiction, becomes feasible.

No-one gets imprisoned. The problem is actually addressed. Addicts no longer have to steal to support a habit, many could continue in normal employment if carefully managed.

Nah, what am I thinking? This could never work in 'modern, first world 'murricah'.

There isn't enough gun-play. Cops would have no reason to shoot the defenseless and poor. Drug-crims would have no reason to shoot at cops (because there would be no drug-crims). Hey and the general public would not have to carry guns to defend themselves against the Crims, the Cops and each other because there would be so little shooting going on.

Best to leave it with "blam, blam, scrape up the bits and send 'em to jail", 'cause it has worked SO well in the past.



edit on 26/10/2017 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Global re-direct of opiates to underground bunkers.....Nibirus 2021 arrival has triggered the endgame in terms of hoarding critical materials on a global scale.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963

bain capital? that sounds familiar, isn`t that Mitt Romney`s baby? yep I believe Mitt is 1/3 owner and founder of bain capital.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

wouldn`t it be super clever to put drug addicts and welfare folks on government work farms so they wouldn`t have all that free time to be just sitting around? idle hands are the devils workshop.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope





but we can blame the user's inability to deal with pain


Inability ?

You must have never felt actual pain to think that.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: LesMisanthrope





but we can blame the user's inability to deal with pain


Inability ?

You must have never felt actual pain to think that.


I live with chronic migraine, a bone spur in one of my neck vertebrae, and I've been dealing with frozen shoulder.

Thanks to the chronic migraine, I don't get to just ask for pain pills.

I tend to agree with him to a certain extent. I think people have lost touch with how bearable some types and levels of pain are. I think we've been conditioned to think we have a right to a painless existence when we are capable to tolerating certain levels of it.

Obviously, acute pain needs to be dealt with, but low grade pain can be handled without needing to take opioids.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: chr0naut

wouldn`t it be super clever to put drug addicts and welfare folks on government work farms so they wouldn`t have all that free time to be just sitting around? idle hands are the devils workshop.


Yes, look at all the retired people committing all those crimes... Oh, wait, they aren't.



Funny how the truisms aren't.

And, how would putting people on work farms break drug criminality?

All that would be is another case of deflecting from the real problem to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Yet, since work farms for citizens had been established (which would have to involve modification of current laws protecting you against that), why not increase its scope to include all prison populations and then other people who may be doing things that the current government wishes to suppress?

Like terrorists, gun owners, striking unionists and those who protest against their government and independent farmers and produce growers and people who clog up the courts with petty claims against the city or state.

Damn it, just enslave them all, the whole population (except for governing agencies)!

That will keep them all safe from any threat, domestic and foreign. All food and accommodation supplied, a productive lifestyle with work assured and all their earthly needs met. Hell, we'd even be able to afford free burial and funerals (not always in that order). From a government stand point, everyone should be sooo happy.



edit on 26/10/2017 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko





Obviously, acute pain needs to be dealt with, but low grade pain can be handled without needing to take opioids.


Fair call.

I was coming from my own experience, I slipped a disk a couple of weeks ago, r5/s1 bulged and hit the nerve, I can tell you if I didn't have vast amounts of both opiates and valium in my cupboard I may of necked myself the pain was so unbearable.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

I have to take random drug tests to be prescribed the benzos I wouldn't need if they had taken me off of them in a reasonable timeframe. Supposed to be a few months, max.

18 years later I'm still taking them and when I ask to switch to diazepam to be tapered down I'm treated like I just asked the doctor for heroin.
edit on 10/27/17 by Magnivea because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: LesMisanthrope





but we can blame the user's inability to deal with pain


Inability ?

You must have never felt actual pain to think that.


Human beings have been feeling pain since the very beginning. It’s insensitive, I know, but it’s a simple matter of fact that people will choose to medicate instead of seeking other means.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 02:06 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Ketsuko pointed out the error of my understanding of your statement.

Interestingly enough, I'm guilty of exactly that, I was complaining to my doctor and he basically said that I need to be proactive, do yoga, poladies whatever it takes to build the core strength needed to overcome the issue.

I didn't like it, but he was spot on as you were with your statement.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:59 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

I live with chronic migraine, a bone spur in one of my neck vertebrae, and I've been dealing with frozen shoulder.

Thanks to the chronic migraine, I don't get to just ask for pain pills.


Obviously, acute pain needs to be dealt with, but low grade pain can be handled without needing to take opioids.


just cause you can deal with those things does no mean that others can deal with any of the million things that could be wrong and causing them pain.
i agree with you on the low grade pain thing but you do not get to decide what is low grade for everyone cause it is different for everyone.

apps.who.int...


Summary: According to international human rights law, countries have to provide pain treatment medications as part of their core obligations under the right to health; failure to take reasonable steps to ensure that people who suffer pain have access to adequate pain treatment may result in the violation of the obligation to protect against cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.


key word is adequate but we do have the right to not be in pain



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: LesMisanthrope





but we can blame the user's inability to deal with pain


Inability ?

You must have never felt actual pain to think that.


Human beings have been feeling pain since the very beginning. It’s insensitive, I know, but it’s a simple matter of fact that people will choose to medicate instead of seeking other means.


sometimes other means do not help and people need to take medication. thats why there are pain meds.

treating pain ha been going in since there have been the means to do it. as long as people have been in pain they have strived to rid themselves of it



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: LesMisanthrope





but we can blame the user's inability to deal with pain


Inability ?

You must have never felt actual pain to think that.


Human beings have been feeling pain since the very beginning. It’s insensitive, I know, but it’s a simple matter of fact that people will choose to medicate instead of seeking other means.




Now what about Chronic Pain sufferers like MySelf. I have both back/neck injuries sustained 16 years ago in the course of My employment w/a Ca. police dep't. I had to fight a pitbull guard dog at a meth lab. So think a Pitbull on Crank. I went through 19 months of physical therapy 4x a week for 90 min. I've been to 7 Dr.s looking for a solution to which none of the doctors would operate.

When I was finally retired out, I found MySelf on 7 Rx meds. Two of these medications were opiates. I lost 72 lbs. of former muscle that turned to fat due to no more physical workouts, including weights. I started to do Yoga and hours of Meditation, I even gave up My bed to My dogs while I sleep on the floor.

I'm on the same dose w/the opiates as when I started taking them 14 years ago. I've NEVER tried to fill the Rx early. I've never been short on pill counts. I've NEVER gone ''doctor shopping'' I've never gone to the ER complaining of pain looking for a script so why should I and patients like Me get penalized for folks using them recreationally?

What will "They" ever do w/the planned profits from their new "Opiate Induced Constipation" drug? If You're taking opiates and find that You can't poop, You're taking too much!..

Stay Hydrated...

P.S. Please don't construe this as an 'attack' as I personally believe 'open dialogue' is way better than arguing and personal attacks.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I really don't know if its necessarily insensitive. For anyone dealing with pain, its actually quite important to understand that pain medication is not always capable of completely *eliminating* the pain. We want to escape it, very badly, but that one little factor can start the landslide into addiction, leveraged by hyperalgesia. This is made even worse by prescribing or using them for types of pain where they are not particularly effective, like nerve pain or even migraines (which can be made worse).

Learning how to deal with, and accept, a certain level of pain is an important part of treatment for any patient. This is touched on when activities like meditation, yoga, or acupuncture are suggested. However, they tend to be presented as full blown alternatives rather than complementary facets. Its frequently seen as either/or by both patients and doctors.

For some patients, they really are all that should be "prescribed," but in my experience its turning into a perceived panacea in both the medical community and the public. The same goes for proponents of medical MJ.

My doctors have said some pretty ludicrous things in order to defend not prescribing me pain medication, until I found one that was actually willing to look at my medical records. One even outright refused to look at them. Two real gems:

"There are two schools of thought on whether or not someone your age can break their bones. I don't believe its possible."

"Someone your age is actually incapable of feeling severe pain at all."

Realistically though, someone in my condition would have probably been "taken out back" in ye olde dayes. At best, I would have spent all of my time writhing in bed.

My current doctor pretty much lets me guide my dosing, etc. I have proven that I use them to grasp hold of some sense of normalcy, and my dosages remain quite low even after ten years.

There don't seem to really be resources for people in similar positions. Its either "just take the meds" or "meditate and do yoga." I've ended up teaching my doctor a helluva lot about these things and I can only hope he has used that knowledge to help other patients.

Personally, I feel I have important work to do and that I can still be a contributing member of society. I'm not just a useless cripple, I'm still reasonably intelligent, clever, and have goals to achieve (some quite big even if I was healthy). This is yet another perception issue on the topic that affects addiction potential and is held by doctors, the public, and even the patients themselves. As a patient, its exceedingly easy to "go there" when you can no longer do 99% of the things that used to bring joy.

None of these things are addressed by any of the proposed measures I have seen on the topic. I think that's a big problem.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't agree.

Saw a CNN report about Trump signing off 'anti-Opoid' funding on Wednesday.

On Thursday CNN reported a Harvard psychologist saying, basically (and close to the line ethically) Trump isn't fit to rule.

As distasteful as the man is in many ways, I can't help but wonder if he isn't enjoying the benefit of being an 'agent of change'.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

No we don't.

Sometimes, you can't make it go away, and sometimes, the things you try to do either only make it worse or are counter-productive to what you are seeking.

A little pain is not a bad thing. In a lot of ways, it can actually be good. Speaking in terms of an injury, pain is your warning that you are going too far. If you eliminate that pain, you run the risk of hurting yourself worse. One of the things that makes college and professional level athletics so dangerous no matter what the sport is that the trainers try to walk that fine line between eliminating your pain and running the risk that you exacerbate your injury to the point where the final cure ends up being much worse than the initial injury would have indicated.

And sometimes, alternative therapies like a heat and ice regimen or ultrasound will work better in the long term than simply popping pills even though they may not provide immediate or lasting relief.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Magnivea

That is a shame.
The government should NEVER be able to get between a patient and a doctor.



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