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Is this the best pro/anti Trump argument?

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posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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I'm not sure how interesting people will find this but as someone who is fascinated by the polarising nature of the argument I got a great deal from it. Possibly the most shocking thing to come from all this Trump hysteria is...

2 hours of civil discussion.

It's Sam Harris Vs Scott Adams.



How do you convince people to watch a 2 hour thing?

You won't change your mind, there isn't a winner, and for some it will definitely be boring.
But I can guarantee that you will come away from this video with 2 hours less than you started with.

Nailed it!

Seriously tho, it's a fascinating discussion regardless of which side you are on and easily the best I've seen.
The breakdown is simply Sam Harris is anti Trump, Scott Adams is pro Trump.

I'm sure people on both sides will enjoy this and for those who refuse to watch 2hours recommended by some stranger on the internet...
You're absolutely correct and I hope you come across it yourself some day.




posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 10:54 AM
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Well, I will give it a look, but as someone who has been delving into Trump's past for years now, I think Trump's neither fit nor capable to run even a shiitehouse.
So if I think there is even one area about Trump that Scott Adams might talk in a meritorious way about that is out of sync with Trump reality, that's it!



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 11:00 AM
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Way to keep an open mind Smurfy. I voted Trump and see both sides. For a guy who can't run a crapper, made billions and basically stole the presidency from the anointed one that had the media and sitting president had it gift wrapped for Clinton.
I cringe listening to some of the speeches and definitely the tweets but how much of that is selective clips from a media force that hates him. Obama said some dumb stuff as well, but it wasn't put on loop in the MSM either.
a reply to: smurfy


edit on 26-10-2017 by TexasTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: smurfy

Cheers, like I said. No minds will be changed but it's fascinating to watch.

And I must commend you on your meritorious vocabulary for no other reason than to say I've used that word in a sentence now.
edit on 26-10-2017 by Krahzeef_Ukhar because: editing is fun



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Vocabulary vocabulary vocabulary. I just used it three times. OH... you meant meritorious.
Back on topic though, at this point I do not see many people changing their minds about Mr. Trump. He would have to change and I don't think that is going to happen.

So as much as I respect Mr. Harris and agree with much of his thoughts on other topics I will skip the video. But thank you for posting it for those who might want to watch it.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Cool, and you're absolutely right.
No one is changing their minds and that's what I find so interesting.

I wouldn't bother posting this if the point was to change minds.

1st I was Bernie, then Trump.
If Trump is responsible for the genocide of 100million my response would most likely be, Hillary would have done 101.

I have no objectivity whatsoever.

To me that's the most interesting part of the discussion. The rest is just calling people names.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I changed my party affiliation of over 40 years ans switched from R to D only because I needed to vote for Sanders. At that point the R's were still showing enough strength so that Trump appeared the long shot. As much as I have never liked the Clintons, from way back in the early 90s, when Sanders did not carry the ball into an independent run or continue the conflict with Clinton, I assessed his stance on Trump, that he posed the greater threat to the nation, and the world. Where Clinton was not capable of visioning the positive changes necessary for our advancement through the first part of this century, Trump posed a threat that would ensure that we would not.

Many argue that if nothing else, Trump will prove a wrecking ball to the corrupt system that has been encroaching on us for more than a century. And even as I spark to that idea, I no longer hold it as a solution to the problems we face. The problems we face run much deeper than politics and economics. For one, Trump is a bozo while at the same time a hero to millions.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Do you think you have objectivity?

As I said, I'm sure I don't. And I don't mean to insult you.
I'm not sure if it's even possible with this debate.

That's what bothers me the most.
I started off thinking that Trump is an outsider and one of the few not controlled by TPTB.
I'm now leaning towards thinking he is one of them and this polarisation was planned.

But even if that paranoid delusion plays out, I'd still pick Trump.

Am I projecting my own flaws onto you, or do you think you're guilty of the same thing?
The lack of objectivity that is, the ignorance and paranoia I keep for myself.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

A bit of my tale Krah. In my early twenties I was fooled by a messianic cult. The Moonies. I spent four years in the prime of my life in that cult, aspiring to my highest hopes and dreams. Without going into those teachings or most of what happened there I managed to withdraw from it physically taking many years to recover, if I have even, in an emotional and spiritual sense.

One of the things I did learn there was the workings of cults, cult leaders and cult members. That cult was heavily, fundamentally conservative. Arch conservative. I vowed to never again be taken in by charismatic leaders and have been very leery since. I watched the cult of Bill Clinton arise following the cult of Ron Reagan. Though those cults never approached the extremes of religious cults they did however have much in common. Authoritarianism for one.

Cult mentality runs through all of us to greater and lesser degrees. It binds us to certain products and tv shows and other avenues of control that we are never aware of.

Well after that period, I swung far to the left, running with a cell of labor oriented Marxists for four more years. And what I learned there was once again how Marxism works as a cult also. Basically what I learned over the decades is that cults limit freedom of thought while at the same time preaching that that is what they offer, freedom from all those other cults that limit free thought.

When we talk about the powers that be, I must admit that for a brief moment, I too held out hope that Trump might be that kingpin in helping to bring them down. That hope did not last long. See, one of the things I took away from that Marxist period was that during that time I studied capitalism along with Marxism. While Marxism offered itself as a better economic system than capitalism I still manages to understand that it will never work as it has been practices in the past.

Basically capitalism fails from the same standard. While it has worked to fuel the engine of our modern world, depending on those successes and ensuing mental conditioning of the population, those practices will no longer suffice to move our species forward. Capitalism defeated Marxism and now is defeating itself.

Because Trump is not a capitalist. He is a venture capitalist, what I call a vulture capitalist. He does not produce, he does not build economies, he skims from the top of affluence. He learned from his father that branding is all important in our modern world. Brands are cultlike. Many come to trust a brand and then, even if something else comes along that is cheaper or even better, will stay with that brand with little thought of change.

So is Trump part of the powers that be? I think only in the sense that he has been successful in this free market which does not hold vultures at bay. Capitalism should be an economic system for all of us but it has been dragged into this extremes of wealth in the hands of the few and poverty for those who suffer under it.

Anyway, I have digressed here but that is because you have asked me, in such a polite and respectfull manner about my own biases. Yes I have biases, just as you surmise that we all do. And my objectivity is also based on more that 50 years of attempting to be an individual that strives to hold blind biases at bay. I might have learned by now that biases are with us and the most that we can do is to keep them from blinding us.

And yes, I think this polarization is part of the tactics of power. I think this tactic will be used up to and until we have reached the breaking point. I do not believe that those powers want the world to crack, to crumble into chaos. I think they will let us fight amongst ourselves until we turn to them for salvation and they will offer it. And then we will all keep working and rather than fighting over political issues and world affairs will fight over coke or pepsi and which home team will win the championship this year.
Other than my introduction here years ago, I do not go into these things from my past but somehow your respectful questions have brought it out.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Damn, that's an interesting place to be coming from.

I did a few weeks at a hippy commune and left because it was early cult stages. Sold all my stuff to go on a spiritual journey only to realise that hippies are stupid and lazy. (Maybe just these ones)

It was actually the best thing I ever did as I realised how foolish I was by seeing myself reflected in them.

I also went to a few socialist meetings until I realised they were more focussed on arts and crafts. (Maybe just these ones)

If it was a competition you'd win easily.
Just saying that I've dipped my toes in the waters you've dived into.

I'm basically to the left on everything except free speech, and I think by what you wrote you share the same passion for that. I thoroughly support hate speech, it has an honesty that will never be found in the PC circles. The only way to learn is to expose your ignorance, but everyone is too busy "denying ignorance" to learn now. (That's probably my most extreme view)

I think I agree with everything you've said here except the previous post saying Trumps a bozo. However you mentioned his marketing and branding ability so I'd be surprised if you think he's not smart. We might agree that he's a talented yet immoral conman.

And even if it's all planned I agree that nothing will be taken by force by TPTB, we will beg for the chains and be happy to receive them. But even if we disregard our paranoia.

I do think you're onto something with the cult thinking. The same brick wall appears in religious conversations and up and coming religions like the Mandela Effect. There's more freedom in talking about a cult than a religion which probably allows for more objectivity and therefore better information. Even sports teams are the same however it doesn't seem to be as blinding. I've religiously followed a team in another country for over 20 years now however I can accept they're not the best, I will of course hate who they are playing violently and irrationally.

Maybe that's what has happened here. Trump has turned this into sports so rather than dismissing the other team like how religions work it's turned to a more active hatred.

But we are making a mockery of the mud pit with all this agreeing.
Thanks for your thoughts, hopefully one day we will learn to disagree better.
edit on 26-10-2017 by Krahzeef_Ukhar because: editing is fun



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar




posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

So , you were in the "Moonies" at one time and that suddenly made you an expert ?
Damn , I knew I missed my chance back then...



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: Gothmog

Made me an expert? Why not? I watched brainwashing and conditioning going on under my nose. I watched and felt it happening to me. I took part in using those techniques. I watched people change from being one kind of person into another person all within weeks. Since that time I have done extensive study into the lure of cults and the types of people it preys upon. I have learned the tricks and the lies. I have studied to find out what happened to me, read and read and consulted with others who suffered the same experiences I did.

Suddenly? SUDDENLY? That word along describes portrays something about you. You read enough to see that I was in a cult. Did you read enough to see that that was decades ago? Did you read enough to understand that I have decades of study and reflection on that topic? You, rather than asking pertinent questions or even wondering what must that have been like or what kind of insights might this person have, instead automatically try to diminish.

Suddenly?



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 09:40 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Gothmog

Made me an expert? Why not? I watched brainwashing and conditioning going on under my nose. I watched and felt it happening to me. I took part in using those techniques. I watched people change from being one kind of person into another person all within weeks. Since that time I have done extensive study into the lure of cults and the types of people it preys upon. I have learned the tricks and the lies. I have studied to find out what happened to me, read and read and consulted with others who suffered the same experiences I did.

Suddenly? SUDDENLY? That word along describes portrays something about you. You read enough to see that I was in a cult. Did you read enough to see that that was decades ago? Did you read enough to understand that I have decades of study and reflection on that topic? You, rather than asking pertinent questions or even wondering what must that have been like or what kind of insights might this person have, instead automatically try to diminish.

Suddenly?


So , you were in a cult....and ?
Well , you do have a point . for 30+ years I was a member of the Cult of Democrats (Progressive Liberals)
I saw the political brainwashing that went on there later . In 2002 I called an end .

edit on 10/26/17 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:37 AM
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a reply to: smurfy

I see your a buisness expert lol,he has only amassed one of biggest fortune in the world,what is an expert in your country,you sure thought this one out,even contridict yourself




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