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Why the Dossier may be the most serious political scandal the US has ever seen.

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posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: tabularosa

I think you may misinterpreted the op.

I am saying that if paid dnc colussion with Russia was used by Obama to get warrants to spy on his rival, that is one of the biggest political scandals the country has ever seen.




posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

This entire debate is rather pointless, when there is one very simple question you seem to have avoided.

What laws are potentially being violated here?

As we all know, collusion is a generic term and it's is not illegal in and of itself. When Trump's friends were accused of collusion, there were laws cited to show what laws they potentially may have violated.

Can you provide the specific laws that would have been broken, if we assume what you say is true?


So accusations of Russian Collusion are enough for Trump to be impeached according to many democrats including several wacky congressmen, but when Hillary colludes with Russians through the creation of this dossier it means nothing huh?

We now know Hillary did actually pay for this report so her collusion is proven - there is zero proof of any Trump campaign Russian collusion - but apparently wild accusations against trump campaign members calling him a Russian traitor 1000's of times in the media and constant calls for impeachment are justified to you.

What laws has Trump violated that justifies his persecution in the media if collusion cannot even be proven? None is of course the answer. Has that stopped Democrats hysterically screaming about it for months with no proof? NO it has not.

Yet you now think Hillary's transgressions should be ignored because it is just oppo research. Isn't that exactly what Don Jr. was accused of doing with his meeting with the lawyer? I seem to recall that being called a bigger scandal then watergate and it proved collusion even though ZERO information was actually obtained. We do not know what Don JR. would have done if such info was obtained - there is a very good chance he would have reported it to authorities.

All the accusations claiming trump collusion essentially boil down to the release of the DNC/Podesta emails. I am pretty sure more press coverage was actually given to Pissgate than the podesta/DNC email contents. So explain how this does not rate as at least as big a story.

How many times does your hypocrisy have to be thrown in your face before you admit it's existence?
edit on 27-10-2017 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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So is a SWAT team going to raid dnc headquarters to keep them from destroying more evidence?
Seemed to have worked for manafort?



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
So is a SWAT team going to raid dnc headquarters to keep them from destroying more evidence?
Seemed to have worked for manafort?


Sure that would only be fare.

Then we can all cheer and praise as investigators play hardball" and threaten each one of them to get them to turn on others.

That was the precedent set with manafort that everyone cheered for.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Grambler

I'm still waiting for some (any) avowed ATS leftist to say that if Hillary did anything wrong, she should be punished.




If Hillary did anything she should be punished!

Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to see the right wingers here say that whatever Hillary did doesn't subtract from what Trump might have done..

I'll wait.



Fail.

I've been on record for months saying that if Trump is guilty, fry his butt.

But it is nice for a leftist to actually say that they want Hillary punished if she did anything wrong.

Are you a right winger? You constantly call yourself a "classic liberal", but you assume I'm talking about you when I say "right winger"...

Hmmmm.


The problem I see is that the left is so immersed in identity politics, that to condemn Hillary is paramount to condemning themselves, hence a level of irrationality often exists.


Funny, I've condemned Hillary on several occasions here, as have more than a few other left leaning posters.

What I haven't seen is anyone in the Trump camp say the same about Trumps Russian involvement. When it comes to Trump, it's just a made up liberal-media conspiracy. And if it did happen, Obama did it worse..



Only because if "Drumpf" is so dumb, it shouldn't be too hard to find evidence. If he did, then yes. But I'm not holding my breath for another 10 months.

Why do you think we're seeing all these hyperbolic news stories and threads, filled with nothing but assumptions and zero evidence of anything?

Distraction. Nothing more. I think a lot of people in our government are privy to a lot of facts we don't have. Obviously the Trump people are afraid of something right now, which is why the Trump-propaganda machine is currently working at full speed.

And as someone familiar with investigations, an investigation doesn't grind on for almost a year without any results. Mueller had to show some kind of evidence to get the funding approved for his last round of high priced lawyers he hired to help him on the case.

The fact that it's taking so long is obviously starting to unnerve the Trump camp. As it should. While Trump may be an idiot, the people he surrounds himself with aren't.


Are you asserting that the MSM is in full support of the right?

Also, Mueller will have to recuse himself before too long.
edit on 27-10-2017 by Wardaddy454 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: GuidedKill


Former LEO here as well GK, although in my day we used old Whelen bubblegum lights and carried .38 SPL wheelguns.

I have meet several other retired LEOs here, great to meet you as well


Nice to meet you too Jburns!! Always love to meet a fellow brother or sister in blue. While I don't know that I would want the job these days I do miss it from time to time. Even though I'm no where over the hill LE today is a younger mans game!!

By the way thank you for your service to the community!!



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

And manafort has yet to be charged with anything.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: tabularosa

I think you may misinterpreted the op.

I am saying that if paid dnc colussion with Russia was used by Obama to get warrants to spy on his rival, that is one of the biggest political scandals the country has ever seen.


Yeah.

I'm now wondering if Nixon had displayed even 1/10th the desperation in maintaining his power compared to what we've seen the DNC commit the past 2 years.

I've never gathered that feeling when scratching around that area of history. Nothing even close.

So if whatever paranoid power lust he had, compared to all the other POTUS since, if it barely even shown through his 'aura of facade' and yet he went as far as he did in the climax of his scandal;

And then we compare that with the power hungry desperation we've seen out of DNC / Hillary / etc well should it even surprise anyone if this thing is as BAD as it looks to so many of us by this point?

I'd say using history as a guideline that this dossier should have been anticipated, if anything.




posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

Also, Mueller will have to recuse himself before too long.


Yeah he probably figured that out a while ago, but assuming he's a clever cat then he first had to play it out to get it to this part so he could save face on his way out.

That's what anyone smart and not totally self-deluded should do.

This stuff is all going down in history. The players are being immortalized. Record keeping has never been so ubiquitous while anyone can save video clips and make documentaries with them.

So assuming anyone expects humans to not be extinct in the next couple decades, it really is interesting watching the most desperate crooked players in all of this.

Sure their followers might be hoodwinked today but in 15 years they wont be, better not be.

So ye players in all of these games, think about your legacy, and quit effing around.

We're all watching & recording, and that means YOU Mueller.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: soberbacchus


That is evidence of their own illegal actions (or immoral) not of Trump's. To equate the two falsely assumes that individuals are not responsible for their own actions. Unless some evidence is also produced demonstrating Trump directed them to do whatever illegal action they are accused of doing, this is also of little meaning.

But yes, I agree they are separate incidents. One isn't the other, and vice versa. I find it very scary to think of the precedent that is set by EITHER SIDE using the FBI as a political tool. What will stop the current administration of using the last administration's tactic of political surveillance? I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture here.

Compared to the consequences of such blatant misuses of our nation's law enforcement institutions, the dossier is meaningless. Its worst accusations pale in comparison to this conspiracy. When our institutions lose their legitimacy, they lose the popular will to govern and that causes a significant constitutional crisis.

I don't think the seriousness has fully set in, thanks to the myriad of distraction media out there.

edit on 10/27/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: tabularosa

I think you may misinterpreted the op.

I am saying that if paid dnc colussion with Russia


That is characterization that offends not people, but logic itself. It is bizarre and you have failed to support it in any way premised on facts or rational thought.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: tabularosa

I think you may misinterpreted the op.

I am saying that if paid dnc colussion with Russia


That is characterization that offends not people, but logic itself. It is bizarre and you have failed to support it in any way premised on facts or rational thought.


Thats a lot of words to just say "The democrats can do no wrong"



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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Why is it no one seems to be pointing out the obvious?

Hillary retained a lawyer. The lawyer along with the DNC hired a Washington D.C. based company who then contracted Steele to develop a compendium of opposition research.

Where's the big story? Where's the conspiracy?

This is not tantamount to the Trump campaign and the Russian lawyers being in direct contact with each other, so again where's the story or even a reasonable comparison?
edit on 27-10-2017 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone
Why is it no one seems to be pointing out the obvious?

Hillary retained a lawyer. The lawyer along with the DNC hired a Washington D.C. based company who then contracted Steele to develop a compendium of opposition research.

Where's the big story? Where's the conspiracy?

This is not tantamount to the Trump campaign and the Russian lawyers being in direct contact with each other, so again where's the story or even a reasonable comparison?


Yes we have heard this point.

It is ok to collude with Russia as long as you hire a lawfirm to do it.

How much money did Trump jr. pay to collude with Russia? What dirt did he get?

Oh but its cool for Hillarys team to solicit dirt on trump from russians and pay for it, because they went through a third party.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone
Why is it no one seems to be pointing out the obvious?

Hillary retained a lawyer. The lawyer along with the DNC hired a Washington D.C. based company who then contracted Steele to develop a compendium of opposition research.

Where's the big story? Where's the conspiracy?

This is not tantamount to the Trump campaign and the Russian lawyers being in direct contact with each other, so again where's the story or even a reasonable comparison?


Lack of reasonable comparison or story or legality or even facts, none of it is relevant to Trumpites.

It...Just...doesn't...matter..

They don't care if Trump worked with Russia.
They don't care if he is still working for Putin.

Pssst...Just today GOP in congress said they are investigating why none of the sanctions they passed on Russia have been implemented in the past 4 months.

Trumpites don't care. They actually LOVE Putin and Russia. It's the dirty little secret. Democracy isn't their thing.




posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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What we’re seeing is a desperate attempt to spin up a story to compete with the investigation of Trump’s possible collusion with Russia.

They’re trying to make this the new pizzagate. I’m not convinced anyone supporting this spin-off actually believes. I think they’re just attempting to create a mess for confusion because they know Trump supporters are starving for deflection on this case.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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originally posted by: spiritualzombie
What we’re seeing is a desperate attempt to spin up a story to compete with the investigation of Trump’s possible collusion with Russia.

They’re trying to make this the new pizzagate. I’m not convinced anyone supporting this spin-off actually believes. I think they’re just attempting to create a mess for confusion because they know Trump supporters are starving for deflection on this case.


That's pretty much it.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
Yes we have heard this point.


But decide to leave it out because it negates almost everything you're vying for...


It is ok to collude with Russia as long as you hire a lawfirm to do it.


Russia? That's funny, I was under the impression that Christopher Steele was British, did he move?


How much money did Trump jr. pay to collude with Russia? What dirt did he get?

You tell me...



Oh but its cool for Hillarys team to solicit dirt on trump from russians and pay for it, because they went through a third party.


Again what?


Founded - 2011
Headquarters - Washington, D.C.
Key people - Glenn R. Simpson




Christopher D. Steele
Service - Secret Intelligence Service
Active - 1987–2009
Other work - Orbis Business Intelligence Ltd
Nationality - British
Occupation - Private intelligence consultant
Alma mater - Girton College, Cambridge


....which Russians are we talking about again?



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone

The ones that were the source of Steeles dossier.

Please tell me you are not commenting on this without knowing where the info from the dossier came from.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: alphabetaone
Why is it no one seems to be pointing out the obvious?

Hillary retained a lawyer. The lawyer along with the DNC hired a Washington D.C. based company who then contracted Steele to develop a compendium of opposition research.

Where's the big story? Where's the conspiracy?

This is not tantamount to the Trump campaign and the Russian lawyers being in direct contact with each other, so again where's the story or even a reasonable comparison?


Yes we have heard this point.

It is ok to collude with Russia as long as you hire a lawfirm to do it.



Collecting intelligence on Russia or Trump is not "Collusion" anymore than the CIA colludes with Russia everytime it uses human intel to learn about Russia or Putin.

Calling that "collusion" is literally delusion.

de·lu·sion

/dəˈlo͞oZHən/

noun

noun: delusion; plural noun: delusions

an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.


edit on 27-10-2017 by soberbacchus because: (no reason given)



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