Why the Dossier may be the most serious political scandal the US has ever seen.

a reply to: soberbacchus


Here we go with Ukraine again. The coup in Ukraine was illegal and far more heinous than the "interference" everyone is discussing here. You don't think the U.S. (and every other major player) engages in propaganda? You don't think we interfere in foreign nation's internal elections and affairs?

How can you feign anger and disgust toward propaganda/influence yet ignore the deposition of an entire nation's lawfully installed & duly elected government? Victoria Nuland, Tony Podesta and Jeffrey Pyatty were the three individuals at the helm of Ukraine's unlawful maiden insurrection.

How can you ask the United States to support an illegal regime? I know my concerns/question with the illegitimate Ukrainian coup will be ignored by those here who find it inconvenient.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


Here we go with Ukraine again. The coup in Ukraine was illegal and far more heinous than the "interference" everyone is discussing here.

I disagree, but don't care. It is irrelevant to espionage and treason. Or more specifically, members a US Presidential campaign to offer up US Policy in trade for campaign assistance. The evidence strongly suggest JD Gordon, Manafort and Carter Page (at the least) successfully conspired to remove the Ukraine language from the RNC platform at the behest of the Russian Government in trade for assistance in the campaign or outright payments.

a reply to: soberbacchus


But you have absolutely no evidence any such offer was accepted or that the conversation even took place to begin with, right? You have nothing tangible that would hold up in a court of law, is that correct?

How can you disagree? We deposed an entire nation's government, not allegedly engaged in some hacking and propaganda. BTW, the information released through the hacks was REAL & TRUE information. So, again, I ask where the real crime is at?

How can exposing the truth EVER be spun in such a negative light?

a reply to: Grambler]

Oh boy...I was talking about up to that point I wasn't talking about after the election. Obviously from other posts I know the FBI at least offered to pay. I'm not sure that any payments ever happened however because when BuzzFeed published the dossier, Steele dropped off the radar and the deal went south. I don't think that the actual payments have been located in government accounting documentation. That doesn't mean it hasnt, just that I haven't looked for that. Anyone???

a reply to: soberbacchus


What evidence? Those links you provided show a timeline, and nothing more. Where is the actual evidence? Correlation does not prove causation.

Trump has always been in favor of stronger relations with Russia, so it isn't surprising he wouldn't support the junta in Ukraine.

I think instead of jumping on the "I hate all things Russia!" bandwagon, we'd all do well to take some notes from their playbook. Have you seen the way Putin deals with corruption in that country? I can tell you this for sure, in Russia bankers wouldn't have been bailed out in typical too-big-to-fail fashion. It is very likely those bankers would've had to flee the country out of fear for their lives or freedom, which is exactly what corrupt individuals should be feeling.

a reply to: matafuchs

More conspiracy theories. Shoo fly ...

a reply to: JBurns

It's time to focus on Hillary because she's the greatest show on earth when a distraction is needed. Oh look kitty a laser pointer.. Oops up the wall...

a reply to: Sillyolme


This is a conspiracy website.

How about attacking someone's ideas or facts instead of levying insults and engaging in other distraction-enabling fallacies.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


But you have absolutely no evidence any such offer was accepted or that the conversation even took place to begin with, right?

Evidence? Absolutely.
A tonnage.

Prosecutorial conclusions? No, but that is what Mueller is likely assembling.

In the meanwhile Carter Page is pleading the 5th refusing to be interviewed and Manaforts home has been raided by the FBI and both Flynn and Manafort have been forced to retroactively declare themselves agents of a foreign government.

It takes a special kind of ideo-denial to claim their is no evidence worth investigating.

a reply to: Sillyolme


As I expected, you totally glanced over everthing I just said.

a reply to: soberbacchus


You mean like Hillary's assistants who also pleaded the 5th?

What evidence are you referring to? If you would simply share your super-insider-top-secret links with the rest of us...

Raids are great but have to produce something of value to be interesting. The Podesta group is also a foreign agent, what is your point?

I never said it wasn't worth investigating (although Mueller is looking into your side, last I heard). I did say (and am correct) that no evidence publically exists therefore your belief in such evidence is specious at best. Your claim that its result is a foregone conclusion is equally specious as claiming Hillary had a ~98% something chance of winning the election.

How can you levy all these claims while ignoring your own side's actions? It is mind blowing.

a reply to: Grambler

I dont think its a good precedent to allow a sitting presidents party to pay foreign agents to collude with supposed rival countries

It is simple and as plain as this. Any thought of the US enjoying a citizen elected Government flew out the window.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


How can you levy all these claims while ignoring your own side's actions? It is mind blowing.

Each on it's own separate merits.
The only value to interjecting one with the other is for distraction and red herring.

As to "claims", Are facts like General Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort literally retroactively registering as foreign agents claims or facts.

Why did both of them resign and why did Trump distance himself from them (after of course asking James Comey cease investigating Flynn).

These are not claims, but rather "evidence" you seem unwilling to acknowledge.

The whole "but Hillary!!!" is a sad strategy.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: introvert

Because they paid their lawyers and the lawyers paid fusion. Can you get any more degrees of separation? Why would the DNC list individual expenditures of its law firm? Did they count the firm's office supplies as an expense of the DNC? The secretaries as staff?

Yep.

The dnc paid 9 million dollars and never bothered to ask where the money was going or to see the results of their payments.

Sounds reasonable.

a reply to: DJW001

And the pipelines had nothing to do with it? - hahahaha....you really should do some research

a reply to: DJW001

So any criticism against Israel becomes anti semitism, you would stoop that low....hahahahahahaha

a reply to: Sillyolme

I linked an article from CNN saying the fb I reimbursed Steele and was going to continue paying him until his name became public.

So surely you will admit the fbi paying tax money door a foreign agent being paid by the dnc for oppo research is terrible.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Grambler

I dont think its a good precedent to allow a sitting presidents party to pay foreign agents to collude with supposed rival countries

It is simple and as plain as this. Any thought of the US enjoying a citizen elected Government flew out the window.

Yes, except it goes even further.

To then have the fbi use tax dollars to pay for it, and then to possibly use that info to get warrants to spy on your opponents.

But as we see, as long as it's Obama doing this, some people see no problem with it.

Surely you jest. This is not the most serious political scandal the US has ever seen. Not by a long shot. In fact, I'm tired of all the Russian crap. Hillary lost because she colluded with mainstream media and the DNC to marginalize Bernie Sanders to ensure her nomination. Trump did not win. Hillary lost. Almost anyone could have beaten Trump, yet did not. The Russians played very little into her loss. I had enough negativity for Russia and communism during the Cold War. I would rather fill my mind and heart with pleasant things, no small feat in today's political climate.

a reply to: introvert

Remember when said only right wing nuts wanted investigations into Hillary.

Former CIA Director Leon Panetta said that the Senate Intelligence Committee is going to have to look into the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) for funding the controversial Trump dossier during an interview on Thursday.

ntknetwork.com...

Must just be another nut though, huh?