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Why the Dossier may be the most serious political scandal the US has ever seen.

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posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
Can you provide the specific laws that would have been broken, if we assume what you say is true?


Perhaps you should look at: 11 CFR 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals.

By the way, you also can't use straw men or conduit actors to circumvent the law. So if you think that Fushion GPS operated as a protective intermediary, I think you'll find most courts would disagree.




posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr


Please show me where facts have been proved on the Dossier?


Please show me where I said they have been proven? I said "perhaps" some of it is true, but if I had to place my bets I'd say it IS true. But the jury is still out.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
I heard a discussion on the news stating the investigations have verified that some of the meetings cited in the document did occur. Of course, what was said in those meetings have not been verified, nor have they been put to rest.

I'm (we are) speculating on a subject which is still under investigation, but will perhaps have verification in part, or as a whole before long. I think I'll wait until we have more information to make an informed judgment. Of course I love to speculate, but in this case the margin for error is still too high, in both directions. If they had to hire Mueller and his team to sort through all this, we surely can't do it. I'll wait.

And oh, the injustices against Clinton are widely known, or should be?

My assertion remains, that the only thing that matters about this dossier, is whether or not it is true.


Ah so you admit your wrong and can't verify a single thing. I can respect that here's the problem with the Dossier the person who wrote it knew any information they handed over to Steele couldn't be verified. But yet he was willing to pay huge sums of money. Knowing Russians like I do I am one after all well half anyway. He was an incredibly easy mark.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

This entire debate is rather pointless, when there is one very simple question you seem to have avoided.

What laws are potentially being violated here?

As we all know, collusion is a generic term and it's is not illegal in and of itself. When Trump's friends were accused of collusion, there were laws cited to show what laws they potentially may have violated.

Can you provide the specific laws that would have been broken, if we assume what you say is true?


Dossier Laws

52 USC 30101: Definitions
Text contains those laws in effect on October 26, 2017
From Title 52-VOTING AND ELECTIONS
Subtitle III-Federal Campaign Finance
CHAPTER 301-FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGNS
SUBCHAPTER I-DISCLOSURE OF FEDERAL CAMPAIGN FUNDS

52 U.S. Code § 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals


Uranium One laws

18 U.S. Code § 201 - Bribery of public officials and witnesses
18 U.S. Code § 1341 - Frauds and swindles (Mail Fraud)
18 U.S. Code § 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio, or television
18 U.S. Code § 666 - Theft or bribery concerning programs receiving Federal funds
18 U.S. Code § 1952 - Interstate and foreign travel or transportation in aid of racketeering enterprises
18 U.S. Code Chapter 96 - RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS

And I'll do you a favor and not even list the laws concerning the email scandal which everyone knows she was let off....



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: Deetermined

God knows who and so does the FBI since Steele provided them with the names of his informants. You don't really believe a professional organization like the FBI is chasing rainbows do you? If they hadn't been able to verify any of the information in the dossier they would have discarded it a long time ago. The simple facts are that they have been able to verify much of what is in it which lends some credibility to the remainder of it.





edit on 10272017 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
Can you provide the specific laws that would have been broken, if we assume what you say is true?


Perhaps you should look at: 11 CFR 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals.

By the way, you also can't use straw men or conduit actors to circumvent the law. So if you think that Fushion GPS operated as a protective intermediary, I think you'll find most courts would disagree.


I've seen that posited before, but it presents a couple problems.

First, no foreign national made a contribution or disbursement, as defined in the law, to the campaign. In the case of Steele, Fusion GPS, an American company, was contracted by the DNC lawyer. In turn, Fusion GPS contracted Steele.

So there are a few very distinct degrees of separation there and Steele did not make any contribution directly to the party or campaign.

That is not a straw man or conduit actor. That is fact and makes a world of difference.

Fusion GPS was hired to produce a product. They did so. Whom they contract to fill that demand is not the concern of the client.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Deetermined

God knows who and so does the FBI since Steele provided them with the names of his informants. You don't really believe a professional organization like the FBI is chasing rainbows do you? If they hadn't been able to verify any of the information in the dossier they would have discarded it a long time ago. The simple facts are that they have been able to verify much of what is in it which lends some credibility to the remainder of it.






Did you really just say that.....That the FBI can be trusted to run a fair and unbiased investigation???



LMFAO!!!! Funniest thing you have ever said....Not the dumbest by a mile but the funniest!!



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: introvert

That's funny, because I remember you arguing just the opposite in another thread when you wanted it to apply to Trump Jr.



Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections.

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.



edit on 27-10-2017 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Sillyolme

And there you have it.

Its ok for the fb I to pay people that are being paid by one political party to get dirt on another, and use that info to get fisa warrants to spy on that other political opponent.

How loudly you will shriek of trump does even a portion of this.

Trump really should send a tweet that he is going to do it.
We would certainly hear a different tune then.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: GuidedKill



Dossier Laws 52 USC 30101: Definitions Text contains those laws in effect on October 26, 2017 From Title 52-VOTING AND ELECTIONS Subtitle III-Federal Campaign Finance CHAPTER 301-FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGNS SUBCHAPTER I-DISCLOSURE OF FEDERAL CAMPAIGN FUNDS


The only disclosure issues I have seen, in regards to this issue, is the DNC not disclosing their expenditures on financing the Fusion GPS research.

I'm not sure that's on the back of the campaign.



52 U.S. Code § 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals


What contribution was made by a foreign national?

Steele provided a service for Fusion GPS, not directly for the campaign.



Uranium One laws 18 U.S. Code § 201 - Bribery of public officials and witnesses 18 U.S. Code § 1341 - Frauds and swindles (Mail Fraud) 18 U.S. Code § 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio, or television 18 U.S. Code § 666 - Theft or bribery concerning programs receiving Federal funds 18 U.S. Code § 1952 - Interstate and foreign travel or transportation in aid of racketeering enterprises 18 U.S. Code Chapter 96 - RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS


That's a dead horse and not part of this discussion.



And I'll do you a favor and not even list the laws concerning the email scandal which everyone knows she was let off....


Still stuck on the emails?

Some people obsess way too much.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

To which a wise person once said ... You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.

I think you are conflating the issue and have a very very partisan view point so no I don't see this as the problem you do. I see a police force ( the FBI) doing their job in investigating crimes against the United states. You on the other hand are very willing to sweep it all under the rug.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Sillyolme

And there you have it.

Its ok for the fb I to pay people that are being paid by one political party to get dirt on another, and use that info to get fisa warrants to spy on that other political opponent


Your confusion seems willful?

The FBI is willing to pay for intelligence on Americans involved in espionage and treason.
Not to get dirt on another political party.
Being associated with a political candidate is not cause to ignore crimes or espionage?
You seem to feel that anyone ever cited as an advisor or associated with Trump should be immune from investigation?

Your whole statement is bizzare..
"fisa warrants to spy on that other political opponent"
The FBI does not have a "political opponent".
The same FBI that hammered Hillary Clinton during the election and publicly derided her competency right before voting is the same FBI that investigated Carter Page and Paul Manafort and refused to speak publicly about it during the campaign.

Trump himself flip-flops between "Loving" James Comey and hating him. Between praising him and firing him.
Trump cannot understand someone that is concerned with facts and justice, he just wants people on his team or they are the enemy.

Your thinking and Trumps seem to share that inability to understand honest people.
edit on 27-10-2017 by soberbacchus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: introvert


Some people just believe if you do the crime you do the time...Apparently you're not that kind of person.

It's ok, the world also has a place for the mentally challenged.








posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: introvert

That's funny, because I remember you arguing just the opposite in another thread when you wanted it to apply to Trump Jr.



Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.




I did not argue the opposite. The two situations are not comparable.

The campaign/party hired a US company to provide a product.

In the case of Jr, he was directly promised dirt from the foreign agent.

Steele did not directly promise anything.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

And then there are those of us in the middle that say don't throw the baby away with the bath water. Those that understand that there has been a lot that has been verified.
In particularl in regards to Rosneft and anyone who was really following this closely would know what has and what has not been verified and won't discard the thing entirely because they don't like what it says.

And FYI...even in regards to the more salacious details the timeline does coincide with reported "events"...



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: GuidedKill



Some people just believe if you do the crime you do the time...Apparently you're not that kind of person.


I believe in understanding the laws before you accuse people of breaking them.



It's ok, the world also has a place for the mentally challenged.


Funny. You call me mentally challenged, yet here I am having to explain simple stuff to you guys.




posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:43 AM
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posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

You're so worried about them hearing private conversations because....? Because trump is as corrupt as the day is long? I'd worry too... if I was a fanboy. Thank God I'm not.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: GuidedKill



Some people just believe if you do the crime you do the time...Apparently you're not that kind of person.


I believe in understanding the laws before you accuse people of breaking them.



It's ok, the world also has a place for the mentally challenged.


Funny. You call me mentally challenged, yet here I am having to explain simple stuff to you guys.



HAHA you think you're explaining something to me or anyone on ATS?!?! Look around, you're the minority. Just about everyone you come across has to point out your inaccurate statements and disagrees with you.


On another note no one directly called you anything....However I do like that you automatically thought I was talking about you.

That says a lot...






posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

In a word...YES
edit on 10272017 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)




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