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Manafort may have worked with Podesta group to influence policy for Russia through Hillary

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posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


That's the swamp?

Part of it, yes. Apparently you've never been in a swamp. The analogy is quite appropriate; a swamp is just not something one can clean up with a pair of surgical tweezers.

The corruption in Washington DC is not limited to a few select individuals doing bad things. Practically everyone in power is corrupt to some extent. That includes the DNC and the GOP, the House and the Senate, the Legislative, Judicial, and yes, the Executive branches. It includes the FBI, the CIA, the NEA, the ATF, the DHS, the IRS, the EPA, etc., etc., etc. The question becomes not if someone is involved, but to what extent are they involved?

Some are involved because they want to be... they get the money and power and prestige. Some go along with the flow, because the rewards are nice and bucking the system is too much trouble. Some loathe what they are involved in, but are afraid to rock the boat. Some are low-level people in the bureaucracy just doing what they can to protect the system, while other are massively powerful and untouchable... and everything in between.

Do you really think there is anyone on the planet that can walk up to Hillary Clinton's front door and say, "Ma'am, you are under arrest. Come with me please"? There's not. Clinton is protected by a network of other powerful people, who all have their own network, full of people who have their own network, ad infinitum. And she's not alone... George Soros is quite probably better protected than she is. But those protecting those protecting those protecting her might have some vulnerability. Every one that falls opens up a small hole to allow someone higher up to become vulnerable.

You're right: Reality Winner was a nobody. But she was part of a network, and her removal left a hole in that network to put others at risk. Weiner held no public office, but he was married to someone closely tied to Clinton. Aberdeen is gone now; Clinton lost her right ear. Weinstein was not the source of all the DNC money, but he was a part of the network that peddled public influence. Every one was another blow to a web of corruption.

Of course, you know all this. I didn't sit and argue with a keyboard for the sake of your education. I did it because there are a lot of people who don't realize just how deep this swamp goes. While you laugh and tell everyone "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain," I point out there shouldn't be a curtain with a man behind it.

So keep laughing. I'll keep pointing.

TheRedneck




posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

On top of this they've been exposed financing the Steele document which is making it look even more suspicious.

However the strongest evidence of election rigging still isn't secret at all, none of this tops the fact that they only provide media coverage for candidates they support enabling them to ensure only puppets get name recognition needed to get elected.

The most important facts can't be hidden so they try to distract us!



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: theantediluvian

It could be BS, we will see.

I think you leave out that if its true, Hillary knowingly helped russis in her time as SoS.

Thats damning.

The fusion GPS story, in conjunction that apparently the Obama admin used it to help get Fisa warrants, is already a scandal of epic proportions, far outweighing anything Russia has been accused of.


Yes, it would be damning if Hillary was taking marching orders from the Kremlin. The impression I got was that the claim was essentially that Manafort was going from the Kremlin to Tony Podesta who was in turn getting in Clinton's ear but I might have missed something.

I don't know how you would consider that to be outweighed by the the dossier stuff *at all* though.

Do you remember back in the spring when the MSM was reporting that the dossier had been passed along to the FBI and others in the IC who were looking into parts of it? I think CNN is actually the one who made the claim that information in the dossier had been used in the investigation that resulted in the Manafort FISA warrant.

That's why it's a subject of the congressional probes and the Mueller investigation. WaPo reported that in October of last year, the FBI was even looking to contract Steele (or technically, I guess Orbis) but the deal fell through when the dossier went public.

Let's not forget that some other oppo research, done by Bannon's GAI and funded by Trump's top donor, Robert Mercer, is what kicked off interest in the Uranium One/Rosatom deal. Remember reading last year that during the election, copies of Peter Schweizer's book, Clinton Cash, had been given to FBI agents (I seem to remember some insinuation that it was buddies of Giuliani's?) who after reading the book, called in Schweizer for multiple meetings to consult with an eye toward launching an investigation?

I think what you're up in arms about is that it was raw intel and some of it is almost certainly untrue. Well so was some of Schweizer's book but parts of it were true. But more importantly, the dossier, as raw intel, should never have been given to the media, let alone published by BuzzFeed. It's more or less a collection of rumors from various intel sources that would need to be vetted. It's not evidence in of itself but it does constitute a body of possible leads. Christopher Steele is legit. He was the Moscow station chief for MI6 and from what? Like 2004-2009, he headed up the MI6 Russia desk. As far as private intel gathering goes, he's ideally suited for it.

To me, the dossier isn't that big of a deal. What's a far far bigger issue are the links between Tony Podesta and Manafort (which there are certainly between 2012-2014) and Podesta and HRC/the State Department.

Certain parts of this don't fit well though. For instance, the "Russia reset" was effectively dead in the water by the end of 2011. That's when Clinton publicly questioned the integrity of Russian parliamentary elections which Putin blamed for mass protests. Speaking of mass protests, it's also been alleged that the US fomented the anti-Yanukovych activism that erupted into the Euromaidan protests in late 2013. Euromaidan of course resulted in the Kremlin-backed Yanukovych (also Manafot's principal client) being deposed and getting rescued by Putin. It was in the immediate aftermath of that when Russia annexed Crimea which resulted in US sanctions.

And that's without factoring in what was going on in Syria where it's alleged that arms were being shipped to anti-Assad forces from Benghazi in 2011-2012. Clearly not in line with Russia's interests either.

There's some apparent conflicts in the various narratives that are being pushed. And then you have to consider the events of last year. If Clinton and co were in league with Manafort at any point, why would they then push a Russian narrative with Manafort as a central figure and risk the earlier dealings being exposed?

And as far as I can tell, none of this, if true, would be exculpatory for Team Trump. Think about it. If Manafort was a Russian agent seeking to influence Clinton, why wouldn't the likely conclusion be that he was in fact working as a Russian agent, trying to influence Trump? And if that's the case, wouldn't that in fact suggest a very strong possibility that the Trump campaign, under Manafort, was in fact colluding with the Russians?

I think we can all at least agree that foreign lobbying is f#ing bull#.
edit on 2017-10-25 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Except that in this case the DOJ has an NDA with the "Un-named source". Kinda legitimizes it no? And now that's been lifted so the anonymous source argument is withering on the vine.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I hear what you are saying on Manafort in ref to him being the basis for Trump collusion but he was let go by Trump(fired?). I see that as the possibility that Trump may have figured him out. If true, that gives Trump a pass on collusion accusations.

What puzzles me is the Comey/Mueller role in all of this. Trey Gowdy, after closed door hearings stated we would see Comey in a different light if we knew what went down in those hearings. Heard a rumor two days ago saying that there's more to come on Comey that will shed new light. Comey is best buds with Mueller, I think I read they do cookouts and Mueller is godfather to Comeys son or something like that. We also read about Mueller in 2009 transporting HEU to Russia as part of the U1 deal. Now Mueller and others at FBI are investigating something they, by all appearances, were part of.

So, either Comey/Mueller/FBI were in some kind of double agent role to entrap or penetrate the Podesta ring of alleged conspirators, or Mueller, Comey, Rosenstein and McCabe are complicit and are going to acquit as part of a coverup to save their own asses. Or something else more bizarre.

I didn't even mention how bizzarre Comey handled this whole mess. My impression of him since he worked for Ashcroft was a principled guy. He was the one who stood by Ashcroft when Gonzalez and Card tried to get domestic surveillance authorized. Then, during the hearings he appears idiotic saying "no intent" and Hillary acted recklessly. Clearly he was knowingly mis-interpreting the law and violating any principles had as FBI director. Then, he turns around and ignites a fire under Lynch for telling him to call it a "matter". An THEN, he leaks hs memos, another idiotic move giving the appearance of being anti-Trump and by his own admission doing it to get the IC appointed to investigate Trump.

Are Mueller/Comey complicit in the U1 deal or double agents playing some kind of game?

Confused


edit on 26-10-2017 by Mike.Ockizard because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

The podesta group just did a new filing to save their butts. In it the Podesta Group received more than $1.2 million from the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine for its work from 2012 to 2014. This is the think tank Manafort used and was a front for russians trying to get Ukraine policy changed.The Podesta Group’s work included meetings with State Department officials Tom Nides and Jake Sullivan and staffers of Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), as well as contacting congressional staff, reporters and think tank researchers.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Good post.

I wanted to just hit a few points.

I am in total agreement with you that manafort possible relationship with the podestas in no way does anything to prove trump or the rest of his teams innocence. On the contrary, to me it makes the investigation into them even more necessary.

I am switching to my computer I will post more in a second



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




Part of it, yes. Apparently you've never been in a swamp. The analogy is quite appropriate; a swamp is just not something one can clean up with a pair of surgical tweezers.

The worlds largest dragline might not sufficient for an analogy vs tweezers.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




I think we can all at least agree that foreign lobbying is f#ing bull#
Yep ...The circle jerk of actors would be the neo-cons / Zionists .Its almost impossible to square the Ukraine/Russian actors from the Kremlin ones in this . The US IC is another spook hangout , or so it seems . They have a limited choice as to who they can throw under the bus to make this go away although the Donald would be their # 1 choice .

Comey is either a very big looser or will turn out to be a hero .Hillary is thinking "What Happens Now" FISA Courts will have to be neutered to the point of being useless or the US looses its Constitution . Its make or break time and they know it .imo



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

As far as the dossier. This is probably a post that I will put on other threads as well because I thiink it is important.

There are several reasons why this dossier situation is far more serious than just normal opposition research.

1. Probably the least important, it proves the hypocrisy of the dems and media (not all) that were hysterical about russian collusion, particularly with the don jr. fiasco. I wont spend too much time on this, but look at what some of these people were saying about don jr, things like anyone trying to use information from russians to undermine their opponent was committing treason, ect. Now all of the sudden they are silent or deflecting.

But again, this is far and away the least impactful thing that makes this different to me.

2. Hillarys team lying about funding it. Still not a catastrophic issue, but this sort of makes the next few issues magnified. Given the importance of the dossier itself and the russian investigation in general, people especially congress, should have been informed of who paid for this material. In fact, Fusion GPS and others refusing to disclose this info (which may be their right) makes this worse.

Why were they hiding this? It seems they knew that paying foreign sources who were getting dirt from russian agents would hurt their narrative, and so they lied. It reall calls in to question just how serious these people re about weeding out russian influence.

3. Do to the fact that it relied on Kremlin connected sources, this dossier could have actually been the most direct way for Russia to influence the US. Remember, most investigators admit that less than wanting a particular side to win, Russia just wanted to muck up the whole system and cause problems. All they had to do was give the Hillary team paid steele some salacious material, and low and behold, the government of this country has grinded to a halt, and division is higher than ever.

4. Now we start to get to the huge problems. If this dossier was used to obtain Fisa warrants, it is one of the most corrupt things that I have ever seen in this country.

You mentioned how all sides including Trumps pay groups for opposition research, and how sometimes that can lead to an investigation. I agree with this. But those investigations are at least known to the public. For example, the possible uranium one deal investigation. Everyone knows this is going to happen. Now imagine instead of this being made public, the info was given to trump who then got Fisa warrants, and surveyed his political opponents, without their knowldege. It would be an outrage.

Lets look at all the ways this is disgusting.

First, the dossier has disgusting allegations that have nothing to do with crimes (pee story), was written in a very amateur way, and has parts that can be proven false in a very short period of time (Cohen meeting in Prague). For this then to be used to survey a political opponents campaign for President is insane. The threshold for something like this has to be immensely high, or else every sitting president can utilize the intel community against their opponent.

Next is the fact that as incredibly bad as getting the secret warrants to survey his opponent would be, Obama then went out of his way to make sure this info was shared with as many intel people as possible, which all but assured leaks to the press. A situation like this involving a candidate for President is so serious that it should be kept as tight lipped as possible, but Obama did the opposite.

Obama also told European allies that Trump may have shady connections to the Kremlin, thereby jeopordizing relationships with these countries in the event that Trump won.

All of this is unique and the most authoritarian, election influencing action I have ever heard of.

The precedent has now been set for a sitting Presidents party to pay foreign agents to go to countries that we are rivals or enemies with, get any kind of poorly written or scandalous info from that countries agents about the other parties candidate, then without the other party knowing it, get Fisa warrants to investigate and survey them with the FBI, spread that info far and why and to make sure it gets leaked to the press, and even tell allies about it.

In effect, this makes the FBI a tool for the sitting party to act as its own opposition research team; a team that can violate your rights and arrest you. It is the most Orwellian thing imaginable, and should be rejected in the strongest possible terms, and all of those responsible need to be held accountable.

5. Then there is the matter of the FBI itself. They were going to pay Steele to continue this research, which is unbelievable. Not only was the material Steele gave them scandalous, written poorly, and easily proven wrong in some parts, but they then decide they want more.

Think about this, the FBI has to know given the fact that this info could literally dictate who wins the Presidency, and possibly prove Russia trying to subvert that election, they had to know this is one of the most serious and difficult cases they would deal with. So they hire a foreign agent who was paid for by one of the candidates teams to go to russia and use russian sources to get more dirt? That is outrageous.

But it doesn't stop there. Now the FBI is stonewalling congressional subpoenas to testify as to this situation, and most importantly as to rather the dossier was used to get warrants. Every single American should be livid over this. This reeks of the FBI being a political tool. Not to mention all of the leaks that were coming out of the FBI in the first place.

It seems as if the FBI is basically acting as its own entity that is not accountable to the people. We are talking about one of the most powerful agencies in the world, with the power to look into anyone life at a whim, possibly favoring one political party, and having no accountability to the people whatsoever. This is a nightmare.

Remember when Schumer said the intel community can get back at people that anger them?

And then is just one issue (though a large one) in a bunch of very questionable issues involving the FBI recently.

Do to all of those reasons, I believe that if (and thats a big if) this dossier was used to get fisa warrants, this is the biggest scandal I have ever seen, and the biggest threat to our system that I have ever seen.

People are worried about russia influencing our system (which they have every right to be) but that pales in comparison to how dangerous it would be to have a sitting party weaponize the FBI against political opponents.



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Interested in your take on this post I copied from above:

What puzzles me is the Comey/Mueller role in all of this. Trey Gowdy, after closed door hearings stated we would see Comey in a different light if we knew what went down in those hearings. Heard a rumor two days ago saying that there's more to come on Comey that will shed new light. Comey is best buds with Mueller, I think I read they do cookouts and Mueller is godfather to Comeys son or something like that. We also read about Mueller in 2009 transporting HEU to Russia as part of the U1 deal. Now Mueller and others at FBI are investigating something they, by all appearances, were part of.

So, either Comey/Mueller/FBI were in some kind of double agent role to entrap or penetrate the Podesta ring of alleged conspirators, or Mueller, Comey, Rosenstein and McCabe are complicit and are going to acquit as part of a coverup to save their own asses. Or something else more bizarre.

I didn't even mention how bizzarre Comey handled this whole mess. My impression of him since he worked for Ashcroft was a principled guy. He was the one who stood by Ashcroft when Gonzalez and Card tried to get domestic surveillance authorized. Then, during the hearings he appears idiotic saying "no intent" and Hillary acted recklessly. Clearly he was knowingly mis-interpreting the law and violating any principles had as FBI director. Then, he turns around and ignites a fire under Lynch for telling him to call it a "matter". An THEN, he leaks hs memos, another idiotic move giving the appearance of being anti-Trump and by his own admission doing it to get the IC appointed to investigate Trump.

Are Mueller/Comey complicit in the U1 deal or double agents playing some kind of game?

Confused



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Ok, I found an article on ZeroHedge.com that lays out a few theories, one of which I kind of agree with:





The Get Out From Under Theory: Mueller and Comey believe that the shadow government they served so long   is on life support now that so much corruption is known to the masses. They believe that Trump cannot fire Mueller because he will be accused of obstruction and potentially impeached. Under this theory, the FBI bros know that there is absolutely zero evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. Who would know better than they? Even the rabidly anti-Trump media will accept a “conclusion of no collusion” since Mueller has packed the investigative team with Clinton and Obama shills. By Comey’s gambit of outing Loretta Lynch, he signaled to Congress that he is looking to deal his way out from under the Clinton’s deadly gaze. His BFF Mueller then gives Comey immunity to take down the Swamp instead, thereby saving both their necks from the gallows when the Deep State is fully exposed.


This theory could also be called the "Throw off dead weight" theory because it throws Podesta and Hillary under the bus in the interest of:

A) Keeping Mueller and Comey out of jail
B) Preserving the Deepstate
C) Allowing CIA Arms/Drugs and other unmentionable trafficking to continue (AwanGate/AwanContra)

That's all I have for now but still open to other theories.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

Great theory Mike. I think your on to something. Don't worry, the truth will come out.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

Thanks for the reply. I figured either I have bad breath, B.O. Or I'd been shadow banned.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

No, ATS ain't what it used to be 10 years ago. A conversation about this used to go on for days with lots of input and interesting ideas. Now we only see paid shills, Govt operatives and unstable types. Time to find a better forum.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard


...yeah. I though I was the only one that noticed that. Cheers!



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

I have heard this. I remember people saying (I think Chafettz) that when all is said and done people will see why comey did what he had to do.

I have no idea the truth behind Comey and Mueller, at this point it is all wild speculation.

They both could be shills for Hilary, working to expose corruption under Hillary, or just normal guys occasionally stumbling at their job.

I guess we will have to see what the investigation results in.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

Wait! Don't go! It's getting lonely in here!



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard

Ok. I'll hang around. Hey, BTW, saw your post on the Awan thing. Spy ring in congress. Surprised nobody engaged with you.



posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Mike.Ockizard


Ya, me too. Pretty freakin crazy that this guy and his Pakistani natl friends/associates would be downloading terabytes of data from congressional networks and the only ones talking about are OANN, Fox and small time news sites. Seems like a huge story.



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