It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

An Olive Branch

page: 7
18
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 12:39 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie


This ambiguous defense used over and over. Get specific.

You first.


the definition of conscience is: an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.

Ah! Agreed! Common ground!


Stop hiding behind the vagueries of "thinking different".

I'm sorry, but my conscience is not saying what yours apparently is. You are demanding I ignore my conscience, by stating that I am ignoring my conscience. Are you really not understanding that?


To get on board with Trump supporters means ignoring the childish insults, the attacks on the media, the attacks on all people who criticize him-- It means turning off your conscience or turning off your brain or both.

So I cannot support Trump and also find his tweets sometimes childish? I have to ignore the documented and quantifiable childish attacks by the media on Trump? I am to demand he never respond to attacks on himself?

My conscience tells me that it is wrong to criticize one party in an argument for something both parties have done, especially if the opposing party started the actions. My conscience tells me that everyone has the right to defend themselves against attacks. I have no idea what your conscience tells you, but it certainly isn't the same as what mine is telling me.

And to continue on to your next post...


ISIS thinks different. Hitler thought different. Serial Killers think different. Get specific and stop hiding behind these vague generalizations.

ISIS thinks (based on their actions I am aware of) that it is fine to kill people for a religious disagreement. I disagree with that.

Hitler believed (based on history and his documented actions) that the Germanic people were intrinsically superior and therefore it was fine for them to exterminate a race of people who they fet were inferior based solely on their race/religious background. I disagree with that.

Which serial killer? If you want a specific answer, you should start with a specific question.

Bill Gates thought different. He believed computers needed standardization and simplification. Thanks to him, we are communicating through the Internet.

Alexander Graham Bell thought differently. He believed it was possible to actually send a person's voice across miles upon miles of wires. You can thank him for your cell phone.

George Washington believed differently. He felt that people were born free and that oppression was a sin against humanity.

Christopher Columbus believed differently. He believed the world could be traversed by sea, while the common beliefs of the time were that such was impossible, or at the very least unsurvivable.

The concept of trying to characterize (demonize) an entire group or ideal based on a minority of carefully chosen examples is a classic exercise in flawed logic. Thank you for illustrating that... and for illustrating that you believe everyone should be forced to believe the same things you do. I disagree with that belief most of all.

TheRedneck




posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 12:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: denybedoomed
a reply to: 3daysgone

I like trey gowdy, at least what I've seen . . .


The problem with trey gowdy is that he's all talk and is impressive in his delivery of talking. But no action is ever followed up on.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 12:53 PM
link   
a reply to: Serdgiam

Competition is indeed a good thing. And I both like and agree with your separation between constructive and destructive competition.

I used to run a home design / structural steel detailing service. I experienced a lot of both types of competition. I instituted a service that would let people have more input and control over their home design, for a minimal additional cost (each tweak of the design cost $100, of which $75 went toward their final plan cost). I competed constructively with other similar businesses by offering a better service. I had the AIA (Alabama Institute of Architects, a group which I was not a member of since I was not degreed at the time) try to demand I raise my prices because certified architects could not compete and I was drawing too much of their business. I declined, and even told them I would understand if they kicked me out of their organization. They didn't find it funny, btw. That was destructive competition.

All identity politics is destructive competition. The moment the letter next to a person's name becomes more important that the actions of the person (the characterizing trait of identity politics), the debate turns into an argument. That is inherently destructive competition and IMO has led in large part to the political divide we now experience. We see it here on ATS every day... no debate about any issue can be held without someone bringing up the names and party affiliations of the players involved as though such is in itself a perfectly good reason to take a stand.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 12:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheRedneck


you believe everyone should be forced to believe the same things you do.


The dishonesty in this lies at the heart of all Trump defense. You and others always go so vague... so general because to be honest and specific would reveal what you actually believe in and the behavior you actually support.

So the bullying, the trolling that has risen from the Trump camp, the childish insults, the attacks and blatant lies, apparently you take no issue with that-- except when you're obligated to which must be strange to have to live up to a standard higher than the president.

edit on 25-10-2017 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 01:04 PM
link   
Imagine a forum where the leader of the forum is not bound by mods... where he can go extremely low, resort to childish insults, insult POWs who were tortured, insult women, insult his opponents wife... Anything and everything goes. And in this forum you wish there was someone to moderate that behavior-- to remind him of what's expected-- of what's decent-- but instead, there is no mod and his toxicity is spilling over to all the people who agree with him... And these people champion him-- and they play blind to the behavior. They don't think of such behavior as being relevant.

Why even have rules of decorum they might ask? Isn't that just forcing people to think the way you do???

To support Trump, as they do, requires an abandonment of conscience.

edit on 25-10-2017 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 05:31 PM
link   
Everything about this group is hostile. This is not a group that values diversity and different thought. How do you extend an olive branch to this? They do not act like friends to this country -- they act like authoritarian enemies.

Bannon to GOP: You're With Us or You're History
www.nbcnews.com...



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 06:08 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie




Hitler and ISIS are examples of ignoring conscience. Do we not dehumanize ISIS? And they deserve it for being hateful sh*ts.

Again, conscience and a good moral compass help lead people on the right path. To support Trump requires an abandonment of that.


They deserve it for being murderous, genocidal fanatics, not for being "hateful sh*ts". There is a difference between speech and thought on the one hand, and behaviour on the other.

To engage in the hatred and bigotry like yours requires an abandonment of conscience, that is if all this talk of conscience wasn't merely the moral posturing of someone who had no clue what conscience was to begin with.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 07:54 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie




Well, let's be clear... if an Olive Branch is being extended, it's being extended to very rigid people who seem to only support the most offensive people... So we just have to gag our own conscience, just turn that switch off and all agree to get behind a White Supremacist misogynist leader.


I am a Trump supporter. I have been since he announced his candidacy. I am also the one the one who made this thread to extend the olive branch. I think your perspective is a little skewed as to the reality of this conversation.




Sorry people of color and women... For unity, we have to all abandon our conscience. You know... for the betterment of the country.


We actually have women and men of color in the hat I am purposing.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 07:58 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Why not just admit that you support hatred and bigotry? You've spent the last year consistently defending it on this site.

You're right though, I do hate Nazis, and not just for their actions. I hate them for their thoughts. I hate ISIS for the way they think too. A bunch of dumb as rocks extremists who can't get along with diversity so they come up with reasons to justify their own intolerance of people who are different than them... and that hatred turns to justifying draconian measures to hurt those people they dislike. Yeah, I hate those types. They're pieces of sh*t.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 09:14 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie


The dishonesty in this lies at the heart of all Trump defense. You and others always go so vague... so general because to be honest and specific would reveal what you actually believe in and the behavior you actually support.

Dishonesty? This is what I said:


originally posted by: TheRedneck

The concept of trying to characterize (demonize) an entire group or ideal based on a minority of carefully chosen examples is a classic exercise in flawed logic. Thank you for illustrating that... and for illustrating that you believe everyone should be forced to believe the same things you do. I disagree with that belief most of all.


Now here are a few excerpts from YOUR posts:


originally posted by: spiritualzombie
ISIS thinks different. Hitler thought different. Serial Killers think different. Get specific and stop hiding behind these vague generalizations.

World Wars are fought between people who think different.



originally posted by: spiritualzombie

Everything about this group is hostile. This is not a group that values diversity and different thought. How do you extend an olive branch to this? They do not act like friends to this country -- they act like authoritarian enemies.



originally posted by: spiritualzombie

You're right though, I do hate Nazis, and not just for their actions. I hate them for their thoughts. I hate ISIS for the way they think too. A bunch of dumb as rocks extremists who can't get along with diversity so they come up with reasons to justify their own intolerance of people who are different than them... and that hatred turns to justifying draconian measures to hurt those people they dislike. Yeah, I hate those types. They're pieces of sh*t.


Those are your words. Open, blatant, hostile anger toward anyone who dares to disagree with your point of view. You liken a difference of opinion to the likes of Hitler and the National Socialist Party of WWII-era Germany, to serial killers, and to religious fanatical terrorist organizations. Who's the bully?

Even worse is that you, yourself, described the actions of the German Nazi Party and ISIS as someone you hate... for doing the exact same thing you do in your posts. And apparently you cannot see that.

That's what starts wars.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 09:49 PM
link   
What about Mike Rowe? He seems to be an all around good guy, although research needs to be done on him.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 10:57 PM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

You’re a moron if you think it somehow wrong to hate Nazis and ISIS and even White Supremacists for their dumb-as-rocks belief. Their intolerance for all people who are different. Their intense xenophobia and bizarre affinity for weapons and war. And always the racism and hatred toward other cultures and races. Their disgusting support for draconian law that specifically hurts these “outsiders”.

I absolutely hate Nazis and ISIS and White Supremacists. They are the worst type of humans. The ugliest souls.

And you somehow decide that’s the group to defend and I’m the one to attack? you don’t even know what a real hate group is. You think a person getting angry about hateful ideologies is just as bad? That’s stupid.

I’m so tired of this moronic stupidity among Trump supporters. Support something good for once. Find something decent to support. Just find something good for f*cks sake.
edit on 25-10-2017 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:08 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie

This is your bigotry on display. Not actual fact.


To get onboard with Trump supporters requires extremely rigid ideology and a total abandonment of conscience.


Somehow, in your head, you've created the reality that Trump supporters = Nazis/ISIS/White supremacists. Now while I'm sure there are elements that embrace some of the polices and perhaps even the whole platform, the same exists on the opposite 'side.' You're generalizations are wrong.

Truth be told, you are living and preaching a logical fallacy.

Victim?



And you somehow decide that’s the group to defend and I’m the one to attack?

Check

Deflect?



Their intense xenophobia and bizarre affinity for weapons and war.

Check

Virtue signal?



I absolutely hate Nazis and ISIS and White Supremacists. They are the worst type of humans. The ugliest souls.

Check

Projection?



A bunch of dumb as rocks extremists who can't get along with diversity so they come up with reasons to justify their own intolerance of people who are different than them...

Check

Icing on the cake....ad homs.



You’re a moron if you think



I’m so tired of this moronic stupidity among Trump supporters.


Game, set and match.

You are a bigot and are attempting to use a logical fallacy to justify it. Good luck.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:11 PM
link   
a reply to: JinMI

Yep, to Nazis, ISIS and White Supremacists I am a bigot who does not tolerate them for thinking differently in the sense that they fight against diversity and have no tolerance for people who are different. Of course these people are the sh*t of the earth so I would hope they don’t like me and I would hope they don’t feel I’m on their side...

Said another way, I have an intolerance for the intolerant. And I’m okay with that.

edit on 25-10-2017 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: JinMI

Yep, to Nazis, ISIS and White Supremacists I am a bigot who does not tolerate them for thinking differently in the sense that they fight against diversity and have no tolerance for people who are different.

Said another way, I have an intolerance for the intolerant. And I’m okay with that.


You still can't see it can you? Hatred is a double edged sword and it's clouded your view. Let me put it as plainly as possibly.

Not all who support Trump are Nazis/ISIS/WS or any other hateful ideology you come up with to justify your hatred for all of them.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:19 PM
link   
a reply to: JinMI

I didn’t say i hate all Trump supporters and I never said Trump supporters are equivalent to those people. Not at all.

What I am owning is I have a hatred for extremist groups such as ISIS, White Supremacists and Nazis who all are incompatible and hateful toward a diverse society — who fight diversity and show intolerance and racism and bigotry for other cultures - and support hurtful policy and draconian measures specifically against these different cultures.

I don’t see what’s wrong with that. I hate racism. I also hate sexual assaulters and I hate pedophiles.

What I am saying about Trump Supporters is they are hostile- they destroyed their own party for not thinking and being exactly like they are. Trump Supporters also turn a blind eye to misogyny, racism, and all manner of bad behavior when it comes to Trump— and therefore to extend and olive branch to such a rigid and offensive people requires abandonment of one’s own conscience...



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:22 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie

I repeat:



Not all who support Trump are Nazis/ISIS/WS or any other hateful ideology you come up with to justify your hatred for all of them.


Your reply:



I didn’t say i hate all Trump supporters and I never said Trump supporters are equivalent to those people. Not at all.


Then in the same breath:



What I am saying about Trump Supporters is they are hostile-



Trump Supporters also turn a blind eye to misogyny, racism, and all manner of bad behavior when it comes to Trump—



This is where I get off the train, laters.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:27 PM
link   
a reply to: JinMI

Yes, that is true. Trump is a hostile guy- who took over his party in a hostile way— he insults and disparages members of his own party, justices he disagrees with, he calls the free press an enemy of the people— and for fun he brags about being able to sexually assault women with impunity because of his money.

He’semboldened all of the hate groups, the White Nationalists, the White Supremacists, he’s encouraged a rising of trolls.

There is so much awful behavior — so much classless behavior— and his supporters boo if you suggest voting your conscience. But they’ll cheer loud for torture.

You have to completely ignore your conscience or not have one to support that.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 11:47 PM
link   
a reply to: spiritualzombie


You’re a moron if you think it somehow wrong to hate Nazis and ISIS and even White Supremacists for their dumb-as-rocks belief. Their intolerance for all people who are different.

I don't do a lot of hating these days. It uses too much energy and produces nothing good. I do vehemently disagree with anyone who decides to hate others just because they are different.


Their intense xenophobia and bizarre affinity for weapons and war. And always the racism and hatred toward other cultures and races. Their disgusting support for draconian law that specifically hurts these “outsiders”.

You certainly know an awful lot about these boogeymen.

I like my guns. I like to be able to shoot that possum that's jumping up trying to get to my chickens, or that rattlesnake in the front yard that could bite someone. I like keeping a loaded weapon handy just in case someone wants to mess up our low crime rate. And who knows? I might go deer hunting this year.

I don't know anyone who likes war. I can understand a war to protect one's country, though.

I don't support any law that targets a specific group. Laws should target specific actions.

But after me saying all that, there are those (and you may be among them) who claim that I am a gun fanatic because I like protecting myself, or a war-monger because I believe my homeland is worth fighting for, or draconian because I support things like voter ID laws. That's the fatal flaw in your argument. You use generalizations applicable to a small group, then expand that group to include anyone who has a similar view on an unrelated issue.

I have known Klansmen. I know what racism looks like. And you, sir, are exhibiting the most racist views I have seen in the last couple of decades... I think back and I can't remember anyone connected with the KKK saying things that are more racist than what you have posted here.


And you somehow decide that’s the group to defend and I’m the one to attack? you don’t even know what a real hate group is. You think a person getting angry about hateful ideologies is just as bad? That’s stupid.

First of all, I defend no group. I defend me. I will speak in support of those I feel are unjustly accused.

And the KKK gets angry about a hateful ideology. That's what makes them so bad.


I’m so tired of this moronic stupidity among Trump supporters. Support something good for once. Find something decent to support. Just find something good for f*cks sake.

I support a growing economy, good jobs for those who want them, fairness under the law, personal freedom, and an open exchange of ideas. If you want to call that 'bad,' then perhaps you should explain to me what you consider 'good.'

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 12:02 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheRedneck
In essence, your entire statement seems to me to come down to a simple concept:
    I'm right, and anyone who doesn't agree with me is obviously wrong.Therefore anything I say or do against those who disagree with me is fine, but anything they say or do against me is inherently wrong and a perfect excuse for me to escalate my rhetoric.



You just described the President of the United States...

and then you said this:


That's a long way from someone following a conscience.

TheRedneck



edit on 26-10-2017 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
18
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join