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Nearly half of US medical care comes from emergency rooms

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posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: SRPrime

I'm sorry about that .
Brains are pricey.
Last year the VA took an MRI and found a gap on my lower left cerebellium.
In officialeeze it's ruled ORGANIC and not the VA's problem so I need a CIVILIAN to tell me what is impaired exactly.I already know math is gone..
It doesn't matter I have no IDEA what national ORG handles THAT and can't pay as a double dipper anyway, will DIE with whatever ....




posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: SRPrime
You provide some good examples of how the entire insurance and healthcare industry is rife with corruption and greed.

I've also experienced Emergency Room care. And when I compare it to the care I get in a doctor's office, it pales in comparison. For instance, I don't usually have to wait 3 or 4 hours to see him; like I have with ER visits.



That regulation didn't do anything good for anybody, because the solution is to abolish insurance coverage completely. It's not necessary.



However, some form of system that helps to pay for healthcare and make it more accessible for everyone is necessary. A seemingly minor problem can quickly escalate in severity to the point where it's beyond the ability of most people to be able to pay for the care out of pocket.

-dex



I think the case for car insurance actually makes sense but for totally different reasons -- however, the only type of car insurance that should be required is NOT, and that's personal injury. If you hurt someone else, that's a great use case and reason to have insurance. Someone could end up with hundreds of thousands in medical because you made a mistake. I'm not okay with the idea of the insurance company basically betting on your driving skill. It is required by law that you have auto insurance -- but you do NOT need full coverage or personal injury to satisfy the law, you need the basic cheapest insurance and you're good to go. That insurance does nothing for anybody if you never crash and thereforby, is just theft for the sake of theft. On the other hand, if you do crash and have the bare minimum allowed by law, and you hurt someone -- it does nothing for the person you hurt. It only covers your own vehicle for body work. Huh? That makes zero sense at all.

In the case of medical care -- the problem I have with it is really simple. I explained in two posts prior to this, my Wife just had a Craniotomy, which is a brain surgery. It's the most difficult surgery on the planet and is one of the highest cost surgeries. Again -- I'm not low income and I was honest about my income to the hospital. The surgery was $160,000, but we were billed for 14,000 because we didn't have insurance. So while you're correct in saying that the average person at some point will absolutely need medical care, my counter-point is, we actually had ACA two years before this and cancelled. The annual was 3 grand with a deductible of 11. We cancelled it the first time we tried to use it and found there was only one doctor within 72 miles of us that even accepted it and was booked for a solid 3 months, wouldn't have needed it anyway because there is no way it would have cost more than the deductible. However, the brain surgery would have been greater than the deductible, here is where you say "See, I got ya!" and I respond with "Nope, not really."

If we had coverage, we would have been billed for the whole bill, which meant that we clearly would have had to pay the $11,000 deductible. What about the other 3 grand a year? 11+6=$17,000. We were billed for $14,000 without insurance.

So my question to you is pretty clear here.... Yes -- the probability that everyone will need medical care at some point in their life is so high, it's nearly 100%. Even though that probability is that high, what is the probability that you'll need it more than once? And even with needing it more than once, if a $160,000 bill was reduced to $14,000 because we didn't have insurance, than even if she needed a second one -- we're still saving money NOT having it. You cannot forget that E.R. and surgical bills do not have to be paid upon services rendered, you literally have your entire life to pay it off, and regardless, I don't know of any insurance premium I could have bought that would have actually NOT cost me more money than not having it in the interim time where we didn't need medical care.

I just recently had an E.R. visit on Friday myself, where I had to get a foreign body removed from my arm, the bill totaled $1,000, again -- I didn't lie about being a business owner or my income and because I didn't have insurance, they comped 88% of the bill, making 12% payable to me. The E.R. Visit included admittance, 3 nurse station checks for medical history and the issue, an X-Ray technician and a Radiologist to read the X-Ray's, 2 X-Rays, the Surgeon and he grabbed a nurse to assist him in the removal. No prescriptions, no anesthesia, no local, no pain killers -- just old style raw beast mode action because I told him I didn't wanna pay for those extras. I was in and out of the E.R. in actually less than 2 hours, and 35 minutes of it was just me sitting in the room AFTER they removed the object while they monitored my heart rate and let me relax from the pain naturally before being discharged out. Total cost to me was $120. I couldn't have gone ANYWHERE ELSE for that price, and insurance wouldn't have done a damned thing even if they billed be for the whole $1,000 as 99% of deductibles are $1,600 and higher, with the average being $4,358. There are two hospitals in Bradenton, Manatee Memorial Hospital -- that's where my wife had her brain surgery, and Blake Medical Center, that's where I had the object removed. They both comped the bill despite me not being poor and giving a truthful assessment of my finances.

So to be clear, a $160,000 high level fully staffed and 3 day planned brain surgery with a 10 day hospital stay, food and round the clock monitoring got comped to $14,000 payable. My $1,000, double x-ray, surgery prep, 4 nurses total and a surgeon to remove the object cost me $120. Mind you, I didn't sign up for financial assistance or anything, this is just what the billing nurse comped instantly in the hospital on the spot the moment after removal.

Also, in the United States, there is a pharmacy called "Discount Med Direct" and they basically order any and all prescriptions, any and all brands from outside of the united states for 80% of the United States Pharmacy Cost. So you can get prescriptions to ridiculously expensive medications for dirt cheap as they order them from countries with socialized medical care.

So, again -- the question is.... What does insurance even do for you at multiple thousands of dollars for an annual premium, with higher multiple thousands of dollar deductibles? Because no numbers I run ever come out cheaper than not having insurance. By the by, My Wife's brain surgery was July 31st 2017, and my Foreign Object Removal was this previous Friday, October 20th 2017. So both really recent prices from two completely different hospitals with no owner associations. I would have spent in the last 4 years alone over 24,000 on just annual premiums in the last 4 years alone for the two of us and that wouldn't have gotten us ONE doctors visit, it would have been purely wasted money. The total for Brain Surgery and the Object Removal, totaled $14,120. And if we used the insurance for her brain surgery, it would have been $35,000, because of the $11,000 deductible. We could have had 3 full on brain surgeries for that price.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:38 PM
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So, we have poor people without health care using the emergency rooms as their primary care facility.

I read a report years ago that said something to the effect if you put urgent care facilities near emergency rooms then triaged the people coming into emergency rooms. Those with colds, the flu etc would be given the choice of paying $1,000 dollars cash to see an emergency room physician or they could go next store to the urgent care facility and pay only $25 co pay that it would save billions

Perhaps both Republicans and Democrats need to look at this study to see how the most expensive resources are being used.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: SRPrime

Well, I have to say that you have had better experiences with no insurance than other people I have known of. You are blessed! I have known of others in the same position who wind up declaring bankruptcy because the hospital didn't comp much, if anything.

Clearly you have done a lot more thinking about this issue than most of us. And perhaps your experience can be an example for others who find themselves in the same predicament.

-dex



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: SRPrime

I'm sorry about that .
Brains are pricey.
Last year the VA took an MRI and found a gap on my lower left cerebellium.
In officialeeze it's ruled ORGANIC and not the VA's problem so I need a CIVILIAN to tell me what is impaired exactly.I already know math is gone..
It doesn't matter I have no IDEA what national ORG handles THAT and can't pay as a double dipper anyway, will DIE with whatever ....


Go the the E.R. Seriously. The tumor they removed from my Wife's head was a Hemangioblastoma on the right cerebellar region pressing against the 4th ventricle with mass effect on the medulla. They removed it and definitively called it an "Elective Surgery" and classified it as an "Immediate, but not, Emergency surgery." In other words, every doctor that looked at it said it wasn't at this point "life threatening" even if it was causing symptoms, they removed it anyway -- no cash out of my pocket.

Turns out it was caused by a genetic mutation, called VHL Syndrome. We didn't know this until after it was biopsied and the biopsy didn't even reveal that, we had to take her to a geneticist to get a gene test for the syndrome. It 100% would have killed her eventually, but maybe 10 years down the road and they took it out anyway.

By the by, the cerebellar region, or cerebellum is only responsible for coordination and balance. It's the part of the brain that looks like a mini brain tucked under the back of the rest of the brain. It basically surrounds your spinal cord -- so if you do have a tumor or lesion there, and it's presenting symptoms, it would be affecting your ability to balance. That's part of the reason why I concluded she had a brain tumor. It has no affect on cognitive ability, higher function, involuntary actions, memory, sight, pattern or facial recognition, speech or language skills.

In other words, if it's not cancer -- it probably won't kill you. My wife's was cystic, meaning it had a puss and blood filled sack attached to the side of it, if that would have popped and leaked out, the fluid would have caused severe and massive brain damage, like a hemorrhage or severe stroke -- that's the only reason it would have likely killed her at some point. So as long as it's not cancer, and not cystic, it's probably not killing you. Many people do have benign neoplasms in their head from the time they are children and they just don't grow, they live naturally until they die of natural causes or of old age. If you're not having any coordination issues either, than it's probably asymptomatic, meaning it's not affecting you at all, it's just along for the ride. So that's probably good news, and it's definitely not affecting your math ;-)
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: SRPrime

Well, I have to say that you have had better experiences with no insurance than other people I have known of. You are blessed! I have known of others in the same position who wind up declaring bankruptcy because the hospital didn't comp much, if anything.

Clearly you have done a lot more thinking about this issue than most of us. And perhaps your experience can be an example for others who find themselves in the same predicament.

-dex


It wasn't like this many years ago, but it's a shift because the hospitals have to adapt to patients dropping their coverage. Again, the ACA was developed to get people back on coverage, but the medical industry overall doesn't like or want to accept ACA, they'd rather it just not exist also. The ACA was essentially a government bailout to the insurance industry, since people were wising up to the scam and letting their coverage lapse. It's the government saying "Look -- if you don't have insurance, you need insurance or you get a penalty come tax season, we'll just take it out of your tax return." That's supposed to incentive you to purchase insurance. They recognized that not everybody can afford insurance, so they had to create a system that allowed people with low income to have affordable coverage. The reason the deductibles are so high is because the adoption rate of ACA is extremely low. The more people who have any given brand of insurance, the cheaper that brands deductibles get. Essentially the only people who signed up for ACA are the people who fall into the category that basically get it for free, and other people who can afford it end up with $17,000 deductibles because they have to subsidize the cost of those who can't afford it and get it for free. Someone like me still saves money taking the fine, other people who could always afford it stayed with their existing coverage, and anybody who is subsidizing the fee people do so at their own peril because they don't realize that not having coverage is still cheaper.

All hospitals in the united states get subsidies for unpaid bills from the federal government every year. So even if someone doesn't pay a bill, the government pays what the bill should be. So what is happening is -- the federal government was paying an aggregate rate to what they generally comp to now. The hospitals would rather just charge you the fair amount now, so what they do is give you a "comped" bill. This is a loophole like tactic that allows them to still collect the high dollar prices from the insurance companies, including the ACA. I.E. It's not just costing us more money, it's costing the government more money too, because they were getting the comped rate prior to ACA, but they are willing to bleed that extra money and squeeze those of us who can afford it into poverty just to prop up the failing insurance industry.

So if you pay, don't pay, the hospital gets paid anyway, and then they double collect on people who pay after a year, who still decide to pay.

Another thing to note is -- you essentially NEVER, and I mean this with very, very, very rare exception, NEVER need to file bankruptcy for medical bills. Years ago, they were only reported by one of the three credit agencies [when I say years ago, I mean pre 2005 era] and you never needed that credit report to get a mortgage or a car note. Hospitals never used to sell their debt to collections, that's something they started doing more recently on the sly. The unintended consequence was the debt collectors would report the debt as their OWN debt, not as medical debt, so it was impossible for the credit agencies to tell they were medical debts -- naturally this caused disaster upon peoples credit scores. However, even having a completely tanked credit score will not default any existing arrangements you have, it just won't allow you to make new ones so easily. That said, bankruptcy destroys your credit for 10 years, while all other debts are removed from your credit report after 7 with the exception of student loans. If you do not pay even a medical bill in 7 years from the day it's sold into collections it's removed from your credit report. When this first started happening, hospitals would sell off the debts of bills they anticipated wouldn't get paid many times before the bill even arrived in your mailbox, instantly posting to your credit report in as little as days after your procedure.

Recently the credit agencies have come out with updated credit reporting systems, and the most commonly used one is Fico, their new platform is called Fico Score 9. Fico Score 9 addresses the unintended consequence of medical debts being sold to creditors and disguised as medical debts. They now have to report as medical debts the moment they sell the debt, they also instated an embargo on medical bills where they are not allowed to be sold into collections for 180 days, allowing you time to negotiate the debt with the medical provider before they send it to collections. Another new adjustment to the system is that medical debt is weighted less than regular debt and will affect your credit score much less than any other debt -- and the last thing they changed is an incredibly great change.

So all debts can be settled with collectors, or repaid in full -- but any debts that are settled for partial amounts stay on your credit report as what's known as a derogatory mark. This lightens the penalty against your credit score but still holds it against your record until the 7 years expires. Every collector will settle for pennies on the dollar, they have incentive to do so even, and this is why the last change is so great. The last change is MEDICAL debts that are SETTLED for reduced payments are removed instantly and permanently as if you paid it in full.

The closer you get to the 7 year limit, the less money they will gleefully accept on the debt, because after 7 years, they can no longer collect it at all, as there is a 7 year statute of limitations on debt collection in the United States. They have to purchase it to own it, so when a hospital sells a debt, the debt collector pays them a reduced amount, and then attempts to collect the full amount, which is how they make profit. If they don't collect at all, they take a loss on that debt purchase which literally makes it a negative investment. To sure up that negative investment, they will literally take 14 cents on the dollar. Some money is better than no money -- but remember, as time creeps closer to that 7 year marker, the amount you can settle for will be more in your favor. After 5 years a $100,000 debt will be able to be settled for figures in the ball park of $11,000. If you can't do it because your negotiation skills are poor or what have you, pay a debt consolidator. This is literally all they do. They take a service fee and do the negotiating for you.

All in all, Medical Debts never used to even count essentially at all by design, then hospitals got tired of being stiffed and started selling to collections secretly, who would then hide it from the credit report systems and claim it as a normal delinquency. The credit report agencies and scoring systems knew it was happening, but had to develop a new system to deal with it. That system exists now, so medical can only hurt you for 7 years, and each year essentially shrinks the debt.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: SRPrime

It appears that you have an extensive knowledge about this issue. While I'm not in a position to verify everything you've said, what you have written makes sense.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile for you to create a thread discussing some of these topics. Given what you have said, there appears to be a lot of misinformation floating around.

Thanks,
- dex



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 04:19 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Have you ever called your Drs office,1st thing it says if it's an emergency call 911,if you have severe pain,do you wait 4 days to see Dr?,most people go to the Dr because they have to,might wait 4 hrs to 8 hrs,then the Dr sends you to a specialist



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: SRPrime

No I don't get to have a normal issue.
MINE is a portion MISSING, a gap,The MDs in the VA aren't alarmed.
But then again IT IS the VA agenda that treats any "GULFWAR syndrome" people according to certain restrictions.
I am functioning as I always have .just weird ideas that keep my imagination running so I take Gabapentin to sleep and use a certain inhaled material...here in Colorado(YES I know AND COPD its NOT good) for PTSD rather than any psychotropic as I am dangerous when they fail as would be anyone who hasn't felt it,yet gets hit by a tsunami of emotions,that were not ever felt so hard,due to their absence (I AM guessing here, but WHAT kind of IDIOTS in the MEDICAL profession want troops with PTSD to TRY THAT?)
Something shuts down my thinking beyond my control in mathematics if I try it I fall asleep and cannot even recall times tables ,I flunked the second grade as a result.
So trust and ego were damaged,being blamed and having my Mother dying thinking that with my Ex lying to GET to America ,it solidified a non trust of human love.
But I HATE rude so in public ,I shut up and prefer NOT to speak, or even really go out,people like to misconstrue that as a direct prejudice ,when it's far more complicated and WHY should I need them to KNOW?
They would ONLY stigmatize me.
AND I love shooting guns,its MY fun to do and maintain skill as well as learn windage for the rounds I shoot ...WHEN I can afford.
I couldn't diagram a sentence and computers are HELL but I supposedly am at 115 IQ and it's ALL quite befuddling,and another spike on my "anger armor".
I gave my country a GOOD service I EARNED what I do,I won't have some PC champion JUMP me for what I already live with yet have NO record.
AND ON said record I can do this


HOWEVER I can't EXPLOIT it without a mentor as I am HIGHLY unskilled with societies norms,having learned THE WORST possible coping skills,from training and an impoverished life from the math....
edit on 24-10-2017 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2017 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2017 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



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