originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: SRPrime
You provide some good examples of how the entire insurance and healthcare industry is rife with corruption and greed.
I've also experienced Emergency Room care. And when I compare it to the care I get in a doctor's office, it pales in comparison. For instance, I
don't usually have to wait 3 or 4 hours to see him; like I have with ER visits.
That regulation didn't do anything good for anybody, because the solution is to abolish insurance coverage completely. It's not necessary.
However, some form of system that helps to pay for healthcare and make it more accessible for everyone is necessary. A seemingly minor problem can
quickly escalate in severity to the point where it's beyond the ability of most people to be able to pay for the care out of pocket.
I think the case for car insurance actually makes sense but for totally different reasons -- however, the only type of car insurance that should be
required is NOT, and that's personal injury. If you hurt someone else, that's a great use case and reason to have insurance. Someone could end up
with hundreds of thousands in medical because you made a mistake. I'm not okay with the idea of the insurance company basically betting on your
driving skill. It is required by law that you have auto insurance -- but you do NOT need full coverage or personal injury to satisfy the law, you
need the basic cheapest insurance and you're good to go. That insurance does nothing for anybody if you never crash and thereforby, is just theft for
the sake of theft. On the other hand, if you do crash and have the bare minimum allowed by law, and you hurt someone -- it does nothing for the
person you hurt. It only covers your own vehicle for body work. Huh? That makes zero sense at all.
In the case of medical care -- the problem I have with it is really simple. I explained in two posts prior to this, my Wife just had a Craniotomy,
which is a brain surgery. It's the most difficult surgery on the planet and is one of the highest cost surgeries. Again -- I'm not low income and I
was honest about my income to the hospital. The surgery was $160,000, but we were billed for 14,000 because we didn't have insurance. So while
you're correct in saying that the average person at some point will absolutely need medical care, my counter-point is, we actually had ACA two years
before this and cancelled. The annual was 3 grand with a deductible of 11. We cancelled it the first time we tried to use it and found there was
only one doctor within 72 miles of us that even accepted it and was booked for a solid 3 months, wouldn't have needed it anyway because there is no
way it would have cost more than the deductible. However, the brain surgery would have been greater than the deductible, here is where you say "See,
I got ya!" and I respond with "Nope, not really."
If we had coverage, we would have been billed for the whole bill, which meant that we clearly would have had to pay the $11,000 deductible. What
about the other 3 grand a year? 11+6=$17,000. We were billed for $14,000 without insurance.
So my question to you is pretty clear here.... Yes -- the probability that everyone will need medical care at some point in their life is so high,
it's nearly 100%. Even though that probability is that high, what is the probability that you'll need it more than once? And even with needing it
more than once, if a $160,000 bill was reduced to $14,000 because we didn't have insurance, than even if she needed a second one -- we're still saving
money NOT having it. You cannot forget that E.R. and surgical bills do not have to be paid upon services rendered, you literally have your entire
life to pay it off, and regardless, I don't know of any insurance premium I could have bought that would have actually NOT cost me more money than not
having it in the interim time where we didn't need medical care.
I just recently had an E.R. visit on Friday myself, where I had to get a foreign body removed from my arm, the bill totaled $1,000, again -- I didn't
lie about being a business owner or my income and because I didn't have insurance, they comped 88% of the bill, making 12% payable to me. The E.R.
Visit included admittance, 3 nurse station checks for medical history and the issue, an X-Ray technician and a Radiologist to read the X-Ray's, 2
X-Rays, the Surgeon and he grabbed a nurse to assist him in the removal. No prescriptions, no anesthesia, no local, no pain killers -- just old style
raw beast mode action because I told him I didn't wanna pay for those extras. I was in and out of the E.R. in actually less than 2 hours, and 35
minutes of it was just me sitting in the room AFTER they removed the object while they monitored my heart rate and let me relax from the pain
naturally before being discharged out. Total cost to me was $120. I couldn't have gone ANYWHERE ELSE for that price, and insurance wouldn't have
done a damned thing even if they billed be for the whole $1,000 as 99% of deductibles are $1,600 and higher, with the average being $4,358. There are
two hospitals in Bradenton, Manatee Memorial Hospital -- that's where my wife had her brain surgery, and Blake Medical Center, that's where I had the
object removed. They both comped the bill despite me not being poor and giving a truthful assessment of my finances.
So to be clear, a $160,000 high level fully staffed and 3 day planned brain surgery with a 10 day hospital stay, food and round the clock monitoring
got comped to $14,000 payable. My $1,000, double x-ray, surgery prep, 4 nurses total and a surgeon to remove the object cost me $120. Mind you, I
didn't sign up for financial assistance or anything, this is just what the billing nurse comped instantly in the hospital on the spot the moment after
Also, in the United States, there is a pharmacy called "Discount Med Direct" and they basically order any and all prescriptions, any and all brands
from outside of the united states for 80% of the United States Pharmacy Cost. So you can get prescriptions to ridiculously expensive medications for
dirt cheap as they order them from countries with socialized medical care.
So, again -- the question is.... What does insurance even do for you at multiple thousands of dollars for an annual premium, with higher multiple
thousands of dollar deductibles? Because no numbers I run ever come out cheaper than not having insurance. By the by, My Wife's brain surgery was
July 31st 2017, and my Foreign Object Removal was this previous Friday, October 20th 2017. So both really recent prices from two completely different
hospitals with no owner associations. I would have spent in the last 4 years alone over 24,000 on just annual premiums in the last 4 years alone for
the two of us and that wouldn't have gotten us ONE doctors visit, it would have been purely wasted money. The total for Brain Surgery and the Object
Removal, totaled $14,120. And if we used the insurance for her brain surgery, it would have been $35,000, because of the $11,000 deductible. We
could have had 3 full on brain surgeries for that price.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)