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Nearly half of US medical care comes from emergency rooms

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posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If someone making 38% more than minimum wage has to work half of a work week just to get 15 minutes with a doctor...its not too hard to see where the problem lies.

It would be ludicrous if I had to work a full 8 hours to pay for a doctors appointment...to have to put in 20 hours of work, just so the doctor can get their cut (and then offshore the cash back to India, further eroding our economy and available cash flow)...its criminal.


It might seem like a daft question from a Brit but when you say it costs to see the doctor is it a set fee or is it less or more depending?

To clarify I had some blood tests at the doctors but I called the NHS hotline and discussed my symptoms and then they booked an apointment at the doctors but with a nurse who took the blood, she then sent them of for tests and I had a telephone conversation with the doctor when all the basic stuff was out of the way and he had all the info to hand.

Would this happen with you for a lesser fee as nurses and phonecalls cost less than a full doctor or is it a flat fee?



99.9% of the time you go to a doctor in the united states, you never even see the doctor. It's all nurses until it's a procedure the doctor has to perform himself. Dr's don't draw blood and run tests here, they perform only when they need to. So yeah, it's basically a flat fee, but that fee varies from office to office. Every test you run costs something and you're billed for it individually, so -- really, you're basically not even paying the doctor unless you need to physically see him.

This is also why E.R. is actually cheaper than having insurance for 99.9% of medical attention. Unless you suffered from a severe trauma or a disease like cancer, insurance basically doesn't do anything for you anyway.

Like I said, I just went to the E.R. on Friday, and the hospital comped 88% of my bill.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If someone making 38% more than minimum wage has to work half of a work week just to get 15 minutes with a doctor...its not too hard to see where the problem lies.

It would be ludicrous if I had to work a full 8 hours to pay for a doctors appointment...to have to put in 20 hours of work, just so the doctor can get their cut (and then offshore the cash back to India, further eroding our economy and available cash flow)...its criminal.


It might seem like a daft question from a Brit but when you say it costs to see the doctor is it a set fee or is it less or more depending?

To clarify I had some blood tests at the doctors but I called the NHS hotline and discussed my symptoms and then they booked an apointment at the doctors but with a nurse who took the blood, she then sent them of for tests and I had a telephone conversation with the doctor when all the basic stuff was out of the way and he had all the info to hand.

Would this happen with you for a lesser fee as nurses and phonecalls cost less than a full doctor or is it a flat fee?



It varies based on whatever the doctor wants to charge. Of course, there are standard ranges and whatnot.

Due to the risk of being sued, doctors generally will not provide any sort of treatment when they are not personally seeing you, and have a medical record of that visit.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If someone making 38% more than minimum wage has to work half of a work week just to get 15 minutes with a doctor...its not too hard to see where the problem lies.

It would be ludicrous if I had to work a full 8 hours to pay for a doctors appointment...to have to put in 20 hours of work, just so the doctor can get their cut (and then offshore the cash back to India, further eroding our economy and available cash flow)...its criminal.


It might seem like a daft question from a Brit but when you say it costs to see the doctor is it a set fee or is it less or more depending?

To clarify I had some blood tests at the doctors but I called the NHS hotline and discussed my symptoms and then they booked an apointment at the doctors but with a nurse who took the blood, she then sent them of for tests and I had a telephone conversation with the doctor when all the basic stuff was out of the way and he had all the info to hand.

Would this happen with you for a lesser fee as nurses and phonecalls cost less than a full doctor or is it a flat fee?



99.9% of the time you go to a doctor in the united states, you never even see the doctor. It's all nurses until it's a procedure the doctor has to perform himself. Dr's don't draw blood and run tests here, they perform only when they need to. So yeah, it's basically a flat fee, but that fee varies from office to office. Every test you run costs something and you're billed for it, so -- really, you're basically not even paying the doctor unless you need to physically see him.


It seems crazy to me as I have never lived in a world like that, I guess that is how a lot of Americans feel about us not having guns lol.

So I had a telephone assesment, 3 lots of blood taken and about 15 tests on them followed by a telephone converation with the doctor telling me everything came back negative. What would that have cost me in the states roughly?

More on topic(ish) here in the UK they are talking about not allowing you to turn up at A&E unless it is life threatening or you have spoken to them on the telephone and they ask you come in as the system in innundated with trivial complaints at what should be for emergencies only.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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we can sure as hell afford to take money out of our military budget and our outrageous corporate welfare to provide healthcare for everyone. america is failing the social contract with its citizens and selling them out to benefit scam artists.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If someone making 38% more than minimum wage has to work half of a work week just to get 15 minutes with a doctor...its not too hard to see where the problem lies.

It would be ludicrous if I had to work a full 8 hours to pay for a doctors appointment...to have to put in 20 hours of work, just so the doctor can get their cut (and then offshore the cash back to India, further eroding our economy and available cash flow)...its criminal.


It might seem like a daft question from a Brit but when you say it costs to see the doctor is it a set fee or is it less or more depending?

To clarify I had some blood tests at the doctors but I called the NHS hotline and discussed my symptoms and then they booked an apointment at the doctors but with a nurse who took the blood, she then sent them of for tests and I had a telephone conversation with the doctor when all the basic stuff was out of the way and he had all the info to hand.

Would this happen with you for a lesser fee as nurses and phonecalls cost less than a full doctor or is it a flat fee?



99.9% of the time you go to a doctor in the united states, you never even see the doctor. It's all nurses until it's a procedure the doctor has to perform himself. Dr's don't draw blood and run tests here, they perform only when they need to. So yeah, it's basically a flat fee, but that fee varies from office to office. Every test you run costs something and you're billed for it, so -- really, you're basically not even paying the doctor unless you need to physically see him.


It seems crazy to me as I have never lived in a world like that, I guess that is how a lot of Americans feel about us not having guns lol.

So I had a telephone assesment, 3 lots of blood taken and about 15 tests on them followed by a telephone converation with the doctor telling me everything came back negative. What would that have cost me in the states roughly?

More on topic(ish) here in the UK they are talking about not allowing you to turn up at A&E unless it is life threatening or you have spoken to them on the telephone and they ask you come in as the system in innundated with trivial complaints at what should be for emergencies only.


The 3 blood draws would cost between 50 and 100$ and the 15 tests depending on what they were around a grand, but could be up to 5,000$, again -- depending on what the tests are. Even with insurance, you'd be paying most of that bill, since deductibles for most people are over 750$. This is why I don't carry insurance.

My wife just had brain surgery to remove a brain tumor, and her bill total was 160,000$ but so far, cost to us was about 14k. Another reason to not carry insurance.

Insurance itself is just theft. You pay annuals, and then still have a super high deductible and most people never actually need it outside of a random accident, which then costs less than if you had been paying insurance for the last 10 years, and then still had to pay your deductible. In the U.S. if you absolutely want coverage, just purchase a bond and pay into it. Then you have 100% of the money you paid into the bond to use in the case of an emergency. Rich people use bonds, not coverage. Learned that from my grandfather, who was indeed -- rich.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

That report is unexpected, considering that there are more neighborhood medical centers now than ever.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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One of the major reasons that people have been working on a re-engineered healthcare system in this country --- which led to ACA --- is directly because of this. Increasingly, people were not able to afford health insurance and were uncovered. To receive any kind of healthcare their only option was to visit the ER. Hospitals were commonly unpaid for these services (which are much more costly than other outpatient venues --- like a regular DR's office) or were able to collect only a fraction of the bill. One of the primary reasons for ACA was to prevent hospitals from closing which they have been doing at an increasing rate --- particularly in lower economic areas. Few people consider this fact and few realize that if their local hospital fails they could end up having to drive for over an hour in the middle of the night with a critically ill child in order to find an open ER.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: jtma508
One of the major reasons that people have been working on a re-engineered healthcare system in this country --- which led to ACA --- is directly because of this. Increasingly, people were not able to afford health insurance and were uncovered. To receive any kind of healthcare their only option was to visit the ER. Hospitals were commonly unpaid for these services (which are much more costly than other outpatient venues --- like a regular DR's office) or were able to collect only a fraction of the bill. One of the primary reasons for ACA was to prevent hospitals from closing which they have been doing at an increasing rate --- particularly in lower economic areas. Few people consider this fact and few realize that if their local hospital fails they could end up having to drive for over an hour in the middle of the night with a critically ill child in order to find an open ER.


What? This is categorically untrue. Every doctor I've ever seen, including my fathers cardiologist [who saw him despite not having any money, who also wasn't even an ER doctor] says "Don't worry about the bill, we'll get it paid back by the government."

So the Feds write the doctor a check, then they bill you and double collect if you pay it. Your taxes already go to a universal health care since the feds pay the doctors, but the feds only pay the doctors what it SHOULD cost, not the ridiculous amount they ask for.

Why do you think Doctors in the United States are so wealthy if everyone isn't paying their bills?

The money that comes from the feds is money we already paid in with taxes. So either way, you're being billed twice. If you have medical insurance, you're being billed 3 times, with the insurance being the highest of those bills, and then still having to pay a deductible. Insurance doesn't make medical expenses cheaper unless you need constant medical attention. So you have to have an incurable life long disease for insurance to be worth it. This is why insurance doesn't want to cover you if you have a preexisting condition, because if you have a preexisting condition, than you actually benefit from insurance and they lose on the profit margin.


The reason insurance premiums went up, is because less people started carrying it -- and they stopped carrying it, because they became keen to the scam.


LOL. Hence, ACA -- an attempt at forcing people to have coverage. It's still cheaper to pay the tax penalty for not carrying it than it is to carry it. Especially so, since if you do carry it, you have to pay annual and still pay the deductible, which is about 80% of the bill for the average medical bill.

Makes zero sense to carry insurance unless you have cancer, aids, or something like VHL -- and my wife just got diagnosed with VHL, and the moffit center in tampa put her in a program where they absolve the cost of most of the medical expenses. So it turns out, even with a life long incurable disease, she's still better off without insurance.

OH, and -- Insurance is the reason doctor visits are so expensive. If insurance didn't exist, medical bills would be tremendously smaller, this is why real conservatives want the government out of medical, and want to shut down the medical insurance industry.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I don't know what healthcare you have but my deductible for going to the hospital is MUCH higher than going to a normal doctor.

The way insurance works is you have to have the biggest pools possible to keep the costs down for the everyone.


The ACA and how you view it depends on what lens you are viewing it through. Like most such government boondoggles, it does as much or more harm than good.

I earn just a little over the line and fall into the trap of being one of those paying for it for those who get it for free or at a greatly reduced price. Also add to that my age.

I've seen it first hand and it's not theoretical as I've had some major health issues over the last year and half or so. For my household the deductible alone is overwhelming. Monthly payments of close to a thousand a month and a deductible of nearly $17,000.00. Add to that, even with the huge discount the hospital gave me for multiple surgeries and long hospital stays, I'm left owing a years income. Were it not for the hospital helping me out, I'd be looking at over three years income gone.

There is an intentional crack left in it that hits average middle class income earners hard. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for the tens of millions of people who pay zero? It's not the rich.

It's easy for those who get health care for free or huge subsidies to say how wonderful it is. It sucks for people who work hard to realize a middle class lifestyle and sucks even more when you get older as rates and deductibles skyrocket. It's easy to see who does and does not understand who is paying by their opinions of it.

It also does not take into account where you live. It's very expensive here and you need to earn about $80,000.00 a year to drive a decent vehicle and live in a decent home, while in much of the lower 48 it's under $50,000.00, however the ACA ignores that.

Now we are looking at the cost skyrocketing again this year.

The only high point of it is that eventually you will go broke and then you can get free health care


Just say thank you since I'm paying for part of yours.
edit on 10/23/2017 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

I'd give that more stars if I could.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
It's getting hard to find primary-care doctors. These days most doctors specialize. I've heard that it's mostly because the cost of a medical education is so astronomically high, it almost doesn't pay to be a general practitioner.


I got into a long conversation with the surgeon who worked on me twice last year about his income. He earns about $150,000.00 a year. He's a local go to for some of the more difficult surgeries. About 15 years of education and residency, over a half million in education costs and you can see that it's not a highly paid field. Rich doctors get rich other ways.

I lost my preferred MD immediately after the AMA came into force. The words "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" echo in my head. He made no secret that he would not take the cut in pay.

I suspect becoming an MD with education cost skyrocketing and other fields paying so much better with less investment of time and money, will not be very enticing anymore.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

There is reason why countries like Britain import so many of their doctors from other countries.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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(as a recipient of medicaid):

The reason most people get their healthcare in the Emergency room, is BECAUSE OF F'ING MEDICAID!

Nobody accepts medicaid plans (except for a select few doctors). Most offices require that you already be an existing member, before they accept a medicaid plan.... Which is a good legal loophole to avoid accepting new medicaid patients. Even the small urgent care/minute clinics rarely accept any medicaid plans.

Then we have the very few PCP that do accept government healthcare, and they have massive patient logs and wait lists to come in for a visit.... as the way most people see it, if they are extremely sick, they would rather see someone now, than wait for 2-3 days and see someone.

Then, we have all these extremely high emergency room bills essentially causing the rise in premium cost for everyone else (due to ER visits from subsidized healthcare and other healthcare) that have to be passed off to other consumers to compensate the cost vs premium payments.

It's a sick and twisted spiral that will eventually bankrupt itself



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
It's getting hard to find primary-care doctors. These days most doctors specialize. I've heard that it's mostly because the cost of a medical education is so astronomically high, it almost doesn't pay to be a general practitioner.


I got into a long conversation with the surgeon who worked on me twice last year about his income. He earns about $150,000.00 a year. He's a local go to for some of the more difficult surgeries. About 15 years of education and residency, over a half million in education costs and you can see that it's not a highly paid field. Rich doctors get rich other ways.

I lost my preferred MD immediately after the AMA came into force. The words "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" echo in my head. He made no secret that he would not take the cut in pay.

I suspect becoming an MD with education cost skyrocketing and other fields paying so much better with less investment of time and money, will not be very enticing anymore.


What? This makes zero sense on so many levels.

K, so imagine it cost him 500,000k to become that doctor. Now he makes 150,000k a year. He makes the money back from his education in just 3 years time. Sure deduct the cost of living, but if you live modest until you pay off your educational fees, then it's a no-brainer. You'd be a millionaire in just 11 years, and that's without making any investments at all. There is no reason anyone needs to have living expenses greater than 24,000$. Anything above that is just pure luxury, and there is nice places to live for that modest amount.

Instead of mortgaging a million dollar home over 30 years and paying 3,000 a month to live in it, and buying that sweet Maserati that costs almost as much as the mortgage, and taking 3 10k vacations a year, and being part of that golf club that charges you 4500 a month in registration fees I really don't see how you could NOT make due in a really short and timely manner.

That said, there really isn't any shortage of doctors anywhere I've ever lived in the states -- I've lived in Staten Island, NY, I've lived in Fort Myers, FL [a real low income ghetto], and now I live in Bradenton on the outskirts of Tampa.

GP's everywhere, most of them don't take ACA at all. I basically diagnosed my wifes brain tumor at home, told her she needed a brain scan -- we sent her to a neurologist who gave her a steroid pack thinking she had migraines, it didn't work -- he said sometimes you need two, the second one didn't work -- he said, we'll try an occipital nerve block -- that didn't work. I paid for all of this out of pocket and the total was about a grand. He said "Well, there is nothing more I can do for you, you should go to the E.R."

I said forget the neurologist, and we're not going to the E.R. because they are just gonna say it's migraines and prescribe you with some migraine meds, lets go to this GP on manatee ave. We went in, I said look -- this is what we need, PERIOD. She needs a brain scan. The GP said she didn't think she needed the Brainscan, I said -- well I do, so I'm paying for it, write up the script, she said "Well, I guess it's worth it for piece of mind alone."

Do you know how much the CT was? 450. Cash out of my pocket with no coverage. You know what came back on the CT? Two brain tumors. The GP immediately called the E.R. and pre-set us for emergency admittance. She had brain surgery 3 days later. I beat a neurologist -- not only a neurologist, but the highest rated one in my city and I never attended a medical class one day in my life. I mean -- the problem with Doctors, is 99.9% of them suck, and there is actually a reason for that, one I could write an entire separate thread for, but it's basically because people are forced to become their profession before they know what their suited for. You can pass classes, that doesn't make you "good." What makes you good, is problem solving skills. Something that educational systems cannot and do not teach you.

If we had insurance, I'd have had to pay the deductible each and every visit, which would have been larger than the cost, so we wouldn't have used it anyway. The E.R. billed us for 14k on a 160k surgery. Why? Because it was only 3 hours long, 90% of the cost is inflated to bill insurance companies, not because it cost 160k.

See why insurance is a complete scam yet? You have a 17,000$ deductible, which means almost 100% of your medical bills fall UNDER the deductible, meaning you don't even get copay. Take the tax penalty, save yourself the burden.

Also -- no doctors go to school for 15 years, that's a myth. If you go to med school, it's 4 years to the doctorate, 2 more of part time night school to the specialty, for a total of 6 years. Then it's a 1 year residency. Presto, now you have your own practice. Get out of here -- that's a crazy good deal. He'd be earning about 90-100k on the doctorate alone and could totally still have his own GP practice without that additional 2 years, and could still manage to make more than 100k. It's doctors that work in hospitals that make less, when they own their own practice, it's a private business. Still -- 150k a year is a no joke amount of money. There aren't many fields at all that can make that without a ridiculous hustle.

I could make about 150k a year with my window washing company, but you know how long it would take for me to do that? About the same amount of time. The only difference is, I'd be forced to live modest until I reached that point, where these greedy doctors live beyond their means knowing it's going to come back to them with 100% certainty, and then bitch and complain about how the pay "isn't that good."

GFY doctor. To earn 100k+ it always takes years of time investment, usually about a decade. You know nuclear engineers come out earning 45k right? You know what it cost to become a nuclear engineer? About the same as becoming a doctor. You know what Nuclear Engineer can earn after 10 years? Yeah, exactly. Nobody comes out of school as a rookie in their field making the top pay grade in the country for ANY profession, and Doctors come out making more than pretty much everyone else with the exception of maybe an attorney.
edit on 23-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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Reading the comments on this is heart breaking.

You people could over throw the medical industrial complex tomorrow by simply not paying your bills and let it all crash and force reset...but you're so afraid of what freedom means, you carry on in pain.




posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: SRPrime

Once you show that Blue Cross card, the greed impulse kicks in with a lot of medical providers. You are put into the system and the insurance company is milked good.. and you as well if you have a high deductible.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

My niece is a "single" mother with a young daughter.
I highlighted single because her boyfriend lives with her.

Anyways, she has a low paying job and gets insurance through Hoosier health wise here in Indiana. They do not even have a primary physician. Any time they need a doctor they just head to the emergency room.
She doesn't pay a cent either way so why would she bother calling a doctor to make an appointment for next week when she get instant free service?

That can't possibly help the numbers.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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General practitioners don't make all that much relative to their education. The ROI is horrible. 4 years of college. 4 years of medical school. 4 years of residency. Another 2-4 years maybe doing a fellowship. Just so you can make $150-$200k as a general practitioner. Or you can just go get an MBA or other careers and make that by the time you are 27-28.

One of my clients is an ER doc. She makes $200k/yr. Good money, but hardly getting rich.

Surgeons and other specialties typically can earn $300-$750k. However, there are some docs making millions.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: SRPrime

You are not factoring in his cost of doing business, including his cost to insure himself against malpractice.

Someone my husband went to high school with is a practicing doc through a hospital and the hospital easily pays insurance premiums approaching 6 digits/year in malpractice insurance just for him alone.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I had a client who paid $75,000 a year for his malpractice insurance, and this was in 1987.



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