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Astonishing 50 kids a week referred to sex change clinics in the UK

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posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: continuousThunder

Can I just ask , if you were able to accept who you are as you were born would you be bothered about changing etc
I mean , identity and the self all appear to be based in ego and the ID
according to psychology etc

Consciousness doesnt have a gender or a sex , at least it doesnt appear to have to me at least, i have had multiple out of body experiences and each time I didnt feel like I had a sex or I was male etc , I just was !
so does it really matter what you are born with , when in reality your natal sex is just the body you happen to exist in
you are still consciousness.

I guess I will never understand it since I dont suffer this condition



i've explained this so many times on here but what the heck, what's one more time between pals

you ask what if i had been able to accept what i was born as, and you phrase it as if that was some sort of plain value decision i made, but it's not like that at all. having a male body made me sick. and by that i don't just mean emotionally, i mean it made me physically sick.
the way i generally describe it is that my body being full of testosterone was like running your car on the wrong sort of oil - i could function, after a sense, but nothing felt right or responded how it should. and when my body changed through my first puberty, it was like living a drawn out, slow motion Cronenberg film. turning into some horrific monster while everyone around me called me the wrong name and acted like this stomach turning monstrosity is exactly what i should be.
there is no combination of words i can use to convey to you the pain and horror i lived in for the decade that i tried to believe the people telling me that being trans is wrong and that it was a phase i would grow out of
and there is no relief that you will ever feel in your entire life that compares to the way i felt a week into my hormone regimen, where my body finally began to settle and feel right for the first time.
it wasn't a choice i made
and if it was, it was the choice between getting the medicine i needed, or continuing to die by agonising inches.

i don't know anything about consciousness and gender and the relation between them and honestly i feel like it's pretty irrelevant here. i mean, you wouldn't say that pure consciousness doesn't experience cancer so we shouldn't treat that, would you?


also, while i'm on a roll, it's documented that there were trans people living [and thriving - mostly they were very well regarded] in the ancient world, so you might wanna rethink the ol' it's-hormones-in-the-water theory.




posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

No offense, but 50 is not a large number, considering there are 65 million people in the UK.
50 a WEEK is not a large number? How about when compared to zero in the 50's ?
edit on 24-10-2017 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Wardaddy454

So what's the issue? It seems like these people have thought of all the hang ups people such as yourself have with the procedure and have accounted for them already.


Reproducibility in psychological studies.

And that we don't know who will react well to the change or not.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: continuousThunder

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: continuousThunder

Can I just ask , if you were able to accept who you are as you were born would you be bothered about changing etc
I mean , identity and the self all appear to be based in ego and the ID
according to psychology etc

Consciousness doesnt have a gender or a sex , at least it doesnt appear to have to me at least, i have had multiple out of body experiences and each time I didnt feel like I had a sex or I was male etc , I just was !
so does it really matter what you are born with , when in reality your natal sex is just the body you happen to exist in
you are still consciousness.

I guess I will never understand it since I dont suffer this condition



i've explained this so many times on here but what the heck, what's one more time between pals

you ask what if i had been able to accept what i was born as, and you phrase it as if that was some sort of plain value decision i made, but it's not like that at all. having a male body made me sick. and by that i don't just mean emotionally, i mean it made me physically sick.
the way i generally describe it is that my body being full of testosterone was like running your car on the wrong sort of oil - i could function, after a sense, but nothing felt right or responded how it should. and when my body changed through my first puberty, it was like living a drawn out, slow motion Cronenberg film. turning into some horrific monster while everyone around me called me the wrong name and acted like this stomach turning monstrosity is exactly what i should be.
there is no combination of words i can use to convey to you the pain and horror i lived in for the decade that i tried to believe the people telling me that being trans is wrong and that it was a phase i would grow out of
and there is no relief that you will ever feel in your entire life that compares to the way i felt a week into my hormone regimen, where my body finally began to settle and feel right for the first time.
it wasn't a choice i made
and if it was, it was the choice between getting the medicine i needed, or continuing to die by agonising inches.

i don't know anything about consciousness and gender and the relation between them and honestly i feel like it's pretty irrelevant here. i mean, you wouldn't say that pure consciousness doesn't experience cancer so we shouldn't treat that, would you?


also, while i'm on a roll, it's documented that there were trans people living [and thriving - mostly they were very well regarded] in the ancient world, so you might wanna rethink the ol' it's-hormones-in-the-water theory.


In the ancient world it was just dress up, unless they had modern procedures then?



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Be honest. Have you even looked?



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

No offense, but 50 is not a large number, considering there are 65 million people in the UK.
50 a WEEK is not a large number? How about when compared to zero in the 50's ?


what's the population of the UK?
i just googled it, it's 65.6 million.

...65 000 000
.............50

yeah that's not exatly what i would call a large number.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
I predict we will see a massive increase in the number of parents whose dismembered bodies end up being stored in basement freezers.

There won't be parents like that. It's so complicated to bring up a child the government had to take over in most cases. For a while there'll be birth-parents, but it'll be a range of people, not genders, with limited involvement. I imagine parenting will be an amorphous thing, having many sizes and shapes, suited to the advancing society surrounding it. The sciences will be strongly involved managing this blob.

It's not "they". There's no "they". This is systemic. Advancements are devaluing the human. The only conclusion to reach is we'll be rapidly redefining what a human is over the following centuries.

Art Bell might have termed it "The Quickening."
No the government doesn't have to take over raising our kids. What a bunch of socialist belongs.... hillarys village cr$&, it's nonsense and full of John Deweys Suoreme State takeover .



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: continuousThunder

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: continuousThunder

Can I just ask , if you were able to accept who you are as you were born would you be bothered about changing etc
I mean , identity and the self all appear to be based in ego and the ID
according to psychology etc

Consciousness doesnt have a gender or a sex , at least it doesnt appear to have to me at least, i have had multiple out of body experiences and each time I didnt feel like I had a sex or I was male etc , I just was !
so does it really matter what you are born with , when in reality your natal sex is just the body you happen to exist in
you are still consciousness.

I guess I will never understand it since I dont suffer this condition



i've explained this so many times on here but what the heck, what's one more time between pals

you ask what if i had been able to accept what i was born as, and you phrase it as if that was some sort of plain value decision i made, but it's not like that at all. having a male body made me sick. and by that i don't just mean emotionally, i mean it made me physically sick.
the way i generally describe it is that my body being full of testosterone was like running your car on the wrong sort of oil - i could function, after a sense, but nothing felt right or responded how it should. and when my body changed through my first puberty, it was like living a drawn out, slow motion Cronenberg film. turning into some horrific monster while everyone around me called me the wrong name and acted like this stomach turning monstrosity is exactly what i should be.
there is no combination of words i can use to convey to you the pain and horror i lived in for the decade that i tried to believe the people telling me that being trans is wrong and that it was a phase i would grow out of
and there is no relief that you will ever feel in your entire life that compares to the way i felt a week into my hormone regimen, where my body finally began to settle and feel right for the first time.
it wasn't a choice i made
and if it was, it was the choice between getting the medicine i needed, or continuing to die by agonising inches.

i don't know anything about consciousness and gender and the relation between them and honestly i feel like it's pretty irrelevant here. i mean, you wouldn't say that pure consciousness doesn't experience cancer so we shouldn't treat that, would you?


also, while i'm on a roll, it's documented that there were trans people living [and thriving - mostly they were very well regarded] in the ancient world, so you might wanna rethink the ol' it's-hormones-in-the-water theory.


In the ancient world it was just dress up, unless they had modern procedures then?


real glad you seem to have taken so much from my impassioned opening up about my horrific past, makes me feel so great to be sharing my time with you guys.

if by "modern procedures" you mean a hormone regimen, which is all an overwhelming majority of us do in this day and age, then heck yea you better believe it! the romans distilled estrogen from the urine of pregnant mares, and it was so successful and potent that it's only recently science has synthesised a better alternative. it was used by priestesses who were highly revered and generally considered to be of great beauty. there are some utterly sublime statues in their honour surviving in various galleries and museums.
close enough?



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: continuousThunder

Ahh you consider me a pal , thanks!


gender is a social construct in this case so it cant be considered like cancer as its classified as a disease , gender dysphoria is not classified as a disesase but a biological phenomenon.
I was referrring to the classical definition of gender as a social construct defining male and female characteristics not the biological sexual differences.

When you say you were dying, did a doctor confirm that was the diagnosis? (me misunderstanding you)
You mean you felt so bad as to compare it to what death must feel like?

As for the trans in history there maybe a naturally occuring toxin in nature which can do this if exposed to it , maybe this has now been accidentally added to our food supply.

It was just an idea anyway nothing concrete to back it up , there would need to be some form of global survey of trans populations then correalte the data with food toxins, environmental disasters etc to see if there is anything worth investigating. (id say its a reach at this point , but you know stranger things have happened )

Anyway as I said , I am still none the wiser as to understanding what this feels like as Ive never lived it.
But thank you all the same for explaining to me , I know it feels played out for you to explain continually.
However I think that it makes great strides into helping others understand your situation and your life and the life of other trans people. So I would applaud you for your patience and understanding of the ignorant masses myself included.

Thanks


edit on 24-10-2017 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Dont blame the communities. Blame the gender bending chemicals in our tap water.. Blame our politicians for allowing them..



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: audubon

I understand they can make a educated guess, but that would be wrong especially when the children cant decide for themselves and it comes down to their parents.

Personally id be much happier if they were consulted, but werent allowed to make any physical changes until the age of consent at 16

I mean , you cant drive , smoke, #, get a tattoo, make babies or get married until you are 16 so why the # should we allow kids to mutilate themselves until they are legally old enough


That's precisely what happens at such clinics. No kids are having surgery, the only physical changes are taking hormones to delay onset of puberty until they're past consent.

www.nhs.uk...




Staff at these clinics can carry out a detailed assessment of your child, to help them determine what support they need.

Depending on the results of this assessment, the options for children and young people with suspected gender dysphoria can include:
family therapy
individual child psychotherapy
parental support or counselling
group work for young people and their parents
regular reviews to monitor gender identity development
hormone therapy (see below)



Most treatments offered at this stage are psychological, rather than medical or surgical. This is because the majority of children with suspected gender dysphoria don't have the condition once they reach puberty. Psychological support offers young people and their families a chance to discuss their thoughts and receive support to help them cope with the emotional distress of the condition, without rushing into more drastic treatments.


I agree that it's a huge decision that someone would need to be 18 to have a fully informed decision about and understand the potential consequences of. What the clinics offer is emotional support for both the parents and child. Appropriate treatment can be given to the child and family to resolve the issue far quicker than could previously be done, if there's any other underlying cause than genuine gender dysphoria it'll be found and treated appropriately (99.9% of patients wont go on to have gender reassignment as an adult).

Tl;dr - More kids get help, there'd probably be a decrease in operations due to a more proactive approach.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 12:37 PM
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Transgenderism is a multi billion dollar industry. The potential is huge. I wonder who has their dirty fingers in this pie?



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: bastion

Thanks for that info , I guess there is more reading to be done for me on the medical side of treatment.

I think from what you have shown is that the medical community must be going at great lengths to try everything possible to ensure they are fully informed and given the right amount of time etc from pyscho analysis to pharmacological treatments and then to gender reassignment surgery.

If they do everything with the psychological side, id like to see the medical community try psychedelics to see what affect that has on the patients, micro doses to see how that affects their perception of their sex and gender role.
Thats just my own personal opinion though, I have nothing to go on other than I think one possible test would be to see if its psychological using psychoactives which are known for curing depression and a various array of psychological issues.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: LSU0408

So, all the things you liked to do as a kid that has changed, and yet you never questioned your identity as a boy - ever.

You don't know what you're talking about.


Why is that so hard to believe?





It's not hard to believe. Nor is it hard to believe that kids with gender dysphoria do not change their mind on their gender identity. Gender identity is not the same thing as wanting to be superman for a year then growing out of it.


No one said it was, but you seemed to be astonished that not everyone considered their gender when they are kids.


Of course you don't think about it when everything is in alignment. My point was, don't assume gender dysphoria is just a phase that all kids who suffer from it will grow out of, like wanting to be Spider-Man.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

No offense, but 50 is not a large number, considering there are 65 million people in the UK.
50 a WEEK is not a large number? How about when compared to zero in the 50's ?


Most of the 50 have no procedure other than some counseling of both kid and parent.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Be honest. Have you even looked?


Yup.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: continuousThunder

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: continuousThunder

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: continuousThunder

Can I just ask , if you were able to accept who you are as you were born would you be bothered about changing etc
I mean , identity and the self all appear to be based in ego and the ID
according to psychology etc

Consciousness doesnt have a gender or a sex , at least it doesnt appear to have to me at least, i have had multiple out of body experiences and each time I didnt feel like I had a sex or I was male etc , I just was !
so does it really matter what you are born with , when in reality your natal sex is just the body you happen to exist in
you are still consciousness.

I guess I will never understand it since I dont suffer this condition



i've explained this so many times on here but what the heck, what's one more time between pals

you ask what if i had been able to accept what i was born as, and you phrase it as if that was some sort of plain value decision i made, but it's not like that at all. having a male body made me sick. and by that i don't just mean emotionally, i mean it made me physically sick.
the way i generally describe it is that my body being full of testosterone was like running your car on the wrong sort of oil - i could function, after a sense, but nothing felt right or responded how it should. and when my body changed through my first puberty, it was like living a drawn out, slow motion Cronenberg film. turning into some horrific monster while everyone around me called me the wrong name and acted like this stomach turning monstrosity is exactly what i should be.
there is no combination of words i can use to convey to you the pain and horror i lived in for the decade that i tried to believe the people telling me that being trans is wrong and that it was a phase i would grow out of
and there is no relief that you will ever feel in your entire life that compares to the way i felt a week into my hormone regimen, where my body finally began to settle and feel right for the first time.
it wasn't a choice i made
and if it was, it was the choice between getting the medicine i needed, or continuing to die by agonising inches.

i don't know anything about consciousness and gender and the relation between them and honestly i feel like it's pretty irrelevant here. i mean, you wouldn't say that pure consciousness doesn't experience cancer so we shouldn't treat that, would you?


also, while i'm on a roll, it's documented that there were trans people living [and thriving - mostly they were very well regarded] in the ancient world, so you might wanna rethink the ol' it's-hormones-in-the-water theory.


In the ancient world it was just dress up, unless they had modern procedures then?


real glad you seem to have taken so much from my impassioned opening up about my horrific past, makes me feel so great to be sharing my time with you guys.

if by "modern procedures" you mean a hormone regimen, which is all an overwhelming majority of us do in this day and age, then heck yea you better believe it! the romans distilled estrogen from the urine of pregnant mares, and it was so successful and potent that it's only recently science has synthesised a better alternative. it was used by priestesses who were highly revered and generally considered to be of great beauty. there are some utterly sublime statues in their honour surviving in various galleries and museums.
close enough?


But that doesn't mean they changed someone's gender. As for your "horrific past", I'm not going to comment on that here.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

I hope you know that kind of response isn't enough for me to believe or trust you.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: LSU0408

So, all the things you liked to do as a kid that has changed, and yet you never questioned your identity as a boy - ever.

You don't know what you're talking about.


Why is that so hard to believe?





It's not hard to believe. Nor is it hard to believe that kids with gender dysphoria do not change their mind on their gender identity. Gender identity is not the same thing as wanting to be superman for a year then growing out of it.


No one said it was, but you seemed to be astonished that not everyone considered their gender when they are kids.


Of course you don't think about it when everything is in alignment. My point was, don't assume gender dysphoria is just a phase that all kids who suffer from it will grow out of, like wanting to be Spider-Man.


I didn't. But people do grow at different rates.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Wardaddy454

I hope you know that kind of response isn't enough for me to believe or trust you.


That's fine, I've gotten similar responses from you and felt the same way.




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