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Moses and Elijah

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posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 11:07 AM
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Moses and Elijah are the two biggest names in Old Testament prophecy.
They are both much discussed as individuals, but I find it interesting to look at some of the parallels between them, and the way they complement each other.

Let’s first consider their names.
In the traditions of the Old Testament, many names are inspired by wordplay based on some aspect of the person’s birth.
The official story of the naming of Moses fits this pattern. Pharaoh’s daughter drew him out of the water, so she gave him a name which means “drawn out”.
Some people have noticed that the name resembles the second part of Egyptian names like Rameses and Thutmose. There may be something in this.
Those names identify kings and others as a “child of” the preferred god, whether it be Ra, Thoth, Ptah, Amen, and so on. If Moses had a name like that, he might have dropped the first element later.
Alternatively, the name as it stands identifies him as the “child of” a God who stands beyond individual names.

Elijah carries a more straightforward theophoric name.
“Eli” means “my God”.
“-jah” is the translator’s version of the name of YHWH, used as a suffix.
So the whole name means “YHWH is my God”.

Each of them has a vital function, for two different stages of the Lord’s work.
Moses is given the task of establishing the religion of the Israelites.
First he challenges Pharaoh to get the Israelites out of Egypt, and then he transmits God’s commands at Sinai.
Elijah is given the task of protecting and preserving the religion of the Israelites, which he does by challenging the promoters of the worship of Baal.
So Moses is God’s champion against the oppression of God’s people, and Elijah is God’s champion against the idolatry of God’s people.

They are each given powers from God to assist them in their task.
Moses is allowed to turn the waters of the Nile into blood, and announces a succession of other plagues.
Elijah is allowed to hold back the falling of the rain.

Finally, neither of them has a normal death and burial.
Moses dies in the land of Moab and is buried secretly by the Lord himself, so that this burial place remains unknown. That is why the Israelites cannot visit his tomb, as they like to visit the tombs of their ancestors and the prophets.
Elijah “went up by a whirlwind into heaven”, as Elisha watched.

The last word of the Old Testament is God’s warning, or promise, that he would send in Elijah the prophet “before the great and terrible Day of the Lord comes”.
He will be reconciling the people to each other, “turning the hearts of fathers to their children”, in order to forestall the necessity of cursing the land.
In other words, his task will be a calling to repentance in advance of the time of judgement.
This counts as part of the work of maintaining the religion of Israel, so it is consistent with his role in history.

Was John the Baptist the expected Elijah?
Jesus said he was, and John the Baptist himself said he wasn’t.
I think the discrepancy is easy enough to explain.
John was not Elijah in a literal sense. He was not some kind of reincarnation. He knew that his questioners were thinking of the literal sense, and that is why he gave that answer.
But the prophecy was being fulfilled in a non-literal sense. John the Baptist was calling the people to repentance, to prepare them for the judgement brought by the Son of Man. He was offering the baptism of water, to save them from the baptism of fire.
Jesus was being asked about the meaning of Malachi’s prophecy. He knew that John the Baptist was fulfilling the function of the prophecy, that he was the only “Elijah” they were going to get, and that is why he gave that answer.
Two different responses, covering two different questions.

Moses and Elijah are both present at the Transfiguration of Jesus.
They speak to him about the departure which he must “accomplish” at Jerusalem.
Here, I think, they represent the Law and the Prophets, the two great divisions of the Hebrew Scriptures.

From the “letters to the churches” in Revelation, it is evident that the church under tribulation is facing two kinds of danger.
Of course they are troubled by persecution, organised by a new kind of “Pharaoh”.
At the same time, they are troubled by the internal faithlessness which has created such groups as the Nicolaitans and the followers of another “Jezebel”.
Therefore they would need the services of champions against oppression, like Moses, and also the services of champions against idolatry, like Elijah.

This brings us to the question of the identity of the two witnesses of Revelation ch11.
There’s an important clue in the powers which these witnesses have been given.
They are allowed to shut up the skies and prevent rain, and they are allowed to turn the waters into blood and bring every other kind of plague.
These are the powers which were attached to the functions of Moses and Elijah.
It does not follow, though, that they are to be Moses and Elijah in a literal sense, any more than John the Baptist was the literal Elijah. We ought to notice that both of them seem to be exercising both sets of powers together.
In fact we are also told that “fire pours out of their mouths and consumes their foes”; this was a power which had been promised to Jeremiah, which further confuses the identification.
They are not Moses and Elijah individually, but they are, between them, acting the part of a combined Moses-and-Elijah.

One suggestion has been that they stand for the Law and the Prophets, still continuing to witness against the world.
My own theory for that chapter (which disappointed at least one reader) was that they represent the witnessing activity of the surviving faithful remnant, which stands firm for God against the twin dangers of oppression and faithlessness, thus collectively maintaining the combined work of Moses and Elijah.

So these two figures have a persisting presence in the Bible, because they represent two functions which will always be needed as long as we occupy the present world.




posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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The only problem is that they are both prophesied as being overcome and their bodies lay in the street for three days while everyone on earth celebrates. Then they are resurrected and taken up.

If they merely symbolic, that last bit of prophesy becomes problematic.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
One possibility; "They were overcome" = "The Beast was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them" (ch13v7)

They lie in the streets for "three and a half days", which can be seen as yet another version of the period assigned in Revelation and Daniel to the whole tribulation ("half a week", "A time, two times, and half a time", "forty-two months", "1260 days").

And being raised and taken up could be a re-statement of "The dead in Christ will rise first, then we... shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord" (1 Thessalonians ch4 vv16-17).


edit on 22-10-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELImoses and noah were both annunaki bloodline and jesus never existed...its pure myth

edit on 22-10-2017 by Kais123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Actually what is happening in Revelation 11 is a reference back to Zechariah. Zechariah 3,4, and 6 specifically.

It would appear the witnesses of Revelation are the branches of Zechariah. And one of them is even named in Zechariah 6.

11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
edit on 22-10-2017 by ntech because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: ntech
I agree with the fact that there is also a reference back to Zechariah, which I covered in my Revelation thread. In this thread I was focussing on the two names in the title.

As I see it, the significance of the Zechariah reference is that the two "anointed ones" in the original passage must be the prince Zerubbabel and the High Priest Joshua. That is, "the king and the priest".
And of course you will remember the statement which Revelation makes twice; "You have made us/them a kingdom and priests".
So that link is another reason to associate the "anointed witnesses" passage with the saints.



edit on 22-10-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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mozes was a dork who betrayed his brother.
you never betray family.
he was egyptian as well.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 10:05 PM
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originally posted by: dantanna
mozes was a dork who betrayed his brother.
you never betray family.
he was egyptian as well.


Really, how do you know that, because the bible said so???
Funny how the bible doesnt hide Moses faults, that it tells of his failures

I would love to give you a stone and let you stone Moses to death as the law he brought down from the mountain suggests.
Moses was a man, you obvioulsy dont understand mankind and how we are all brother murdering dorks.

Both Moses the law giver and Elijah are representations of the Old covenant.
When they were with Christ on the mountain before His death, God said to Peter

"5 While Peter was talking, a bright cloud covered them. A voice came from the cloud and said, “This is my Son, whom I love, and I am very pleased with him. Listen to him!”

No longer do we listen to the Prophets or the law, we now listen to Jesus, Jesus has become the law and prophets
The new covenant is Jesus.
The law and prophets will die, Jesus will redeem as Lord and Saviour

Those stones are comming for you as well, be careful.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
Finally, neither of them has a normal death and burial.
...
Elijah “went up by a whirlwind into heaven”, as Elisha watched.


Elijah does not die at this time, nor does he go into the invisible spirit realm, but he is transferred to another prophetic assignment. (Joh 3:13) This is shown by the fact that Elisha does not hold any period of mourning for his master. A number of years after his ascension in the windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah’s condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter.—2Ch 21:12-15; see HEAVEN (Ascension to Heaven).

Elijah: Insight, Volume 1

Oh, a little more concerning John the Baptizer:

Work Prophetic of Things to Come. About 450 years after Elijah’s time, Malachi prophesied that Elijah the prophet would appear “before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.” (Mal 4:5, 6) The Jews of Jesus’ day were in expectation of Elijah’s coming to fulfill this prophecy. (Mt 17:10) Some thought that Jesus was Elijah. (Mt 16:14) John the Baptizer, who wore a hair garment and a leather girdle around his loins as did Elijah, denied that he actually was Elijah in person. (2Ki 1:8; Mt 3:4; Joh 1:21) The angel had not told John’s father Zechariah that John would be Elijah, but that he would have “Elijah’s spirit and power . . . to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.” (Lu 1:17) Jesus indicated that John did that work but was not recognized by the Jews. (Mt 17:11-13) After John’s death a visionary appearance of Elijah along with Moses occurred at Jesus’ transfiguration, indicating that there was something yet to take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done.—Mr 9:1-8.

"The work that Elijah had done" would be discussed in the section called "How did Elijah impress upon Israel that Jehovah is indeed the true God?", the introductory remarks at the top and the section "miracles". Which is more or less what you said about it as well except for leaving out the name "Jehovah" from your commentary and preferring to say God or YHWH depending on what you're exactly talking about. For example:

Elijah was a powerful advocate of the true worship of Jehovah. He did a tremendous destructive work against Baalism in Israel; the work begun by him was carried on by Elisha, and the execution of Jezebel and the destruction of unclean Sidonian Baalism were accomplished by Jehu.

edit on 24-10-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


Moses and Elijah are both present at the Transfiguration of Jesus. They speak to him about the departure which he must “accomplish” at Jerusalem. Here, I think, they represent the Law and the Prophets, the two great divisions of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Good food for thought.
Some time ago I was being taught by a Christian rabbi that for every story in the bible there was a purpose even though some of us did not understand that purpose. The transfiguration of Jesus [as was taught by the rabbi] was purposed as both Moses and Elijah relinquishing their authority to the Christ and His church. James, John and Peter were the first pillars of the coming church of Christ Jesus. They established the Nazarene synagogue which would become the body of the Christ in this world.

That is the reason that James, John and Peter were chosen by the Christ to appear with the Christ for the ceremony of power transformation even though at this time even they did not understand why they were there with Jesus. After Jesus died these three men became the pillars of the Christian movement. The reason that Jesus was angry at the thought of building shrines unto Moses and Elijah was that neither of these two were to be pillars of the church and were in fact nothing but forerunners of the purpose of Jesus.

Then I began to understand. Thanks DISRAELI, good teaching ----



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Seede
Thank you for that additional insight on the Transfiguration.
To be fair to Peter, Jesus did not actually express any reaction to his suggestion. "Not knowing what he said" looks like a comment based on Peter reflecting after the event and kicking himself for being so foolish.



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